chunky

Should luck decide a World Champion? As a professional sportsman, I know my opinion... What I think is funny is that everybody hates playoffs in leagues, but the old World Final system was no different. When I look back, it's incredible how flawed and unfair the system was - the WHOLE system. We didn't complain because we didn't think about it. It was all we had, and it was all we knew. Thing is, our memories are very selective. You and I - and many others on here - knew how wonderful it was to attend a Wembley World Final. I never went to Ullevi for speedway, but I have walked the track, and I can imagine that was a great atmosphere. Not another Wembley, obviously, but fantastic all the same. Except for the rain, of course... We sit here and supposedly think of what's it's like to be at a World Final. WRONG! What we think of is what it WAS like to be at a World Final. I have been to a number of post-81 World Finals, and while I enjoyed them, NONE came anywhere close to Wembley. If we had World Finals now, everybody would sit here whining how crappy it is, how piss-poor the racing is, how Poland get preferential treatment when it should be us Brits, how the atmosphere is terrible, that it's b*llocks that so-and-so isn't in the final because of an e/f, how HE won because of luck, etc... Life moves on. Just because "we always did it that way" doesn't mean it was the right way. Then was then, now is now. Yes, I "preferred" the World Finals as an attendee, but I fully understand that the GP system is better, and fairer, to the riders. I love the fact that we have a bunch of meetings with virtually ALL the top riders in the world in action. The old system NEVER provided that, and it was never designed to. What I do agree with Ivan on is that having everything decided the year before takes away something. I can see the Top 8 qualifying from the previous year (that's fine), but I think that we could find a way to complete the field from a series of qualifiers at the start of the current season.

I think that is a little harsh on Mucha, Steve. While he never reached the heights (or the fame) of some of the other Poles, he had already established himself as one rider who wasn't out of his depth at World level. He was also unusual in the fact that he was quite at home on smaller British tracks. When you saw him, he already had two World Finals under his belt, with 7 points at Wembley in 1969 (including a defeat of Briggo), 6 points at Chorzow the following year (including a defeat of Olsen), and a top-scoring 6pts for Poland at Wembley in the 1970 WTC Final. Mucha was one of the steadiest and most consistent (and certainly under-rated) of that that batch of Poles in the late 60's and early 70's.

Ain't that the truth... To be honest, I noticed that at a number of places as far back as the 1980's.

I think you're reading WAY too much into the statement, Bob. What Grand Central is saying is that a lot of people remember Szczakiel for a first bend crash at Oxford (rather than for his achievements), but never mock any other riders for their crashes.

I don't think you could discount Knutson or Plechanov in the sixties...

Not as far as I know. Charles' grandfather was Jim Yacoby, though.

That's why I said what I did earlier. You can't blame any single time or event; it was a collection of events over a period of several years. While British speedway has constantly shot itself in the foot, and the authorities have failed to stop the bleeding, there are a number of factors that cannot be blamed on speedway itself. 1) The demise of greyhound racing. I'm not venturing any personal opinion on the sport, but we have relied on it, particularly where the GRA were the landlords. 2) The ever-increasing NIMBY population who have been largely responsible for driving a very visible and easy-accessible city-centre sport into the rural wilderness. 3) Tied in with number 2), the desire for redevelopment, which has had a detrimental impact on many sporting venues. 4) The fact that for whatever reason, speedway just isn't "cool" anymore...

I'd certainly agree with that era. Don't forget that was also when the British League ended (1990). There were several factors over a two or three year period that really didn't help.

From what I can find, Ernie retired - for the first time - during the 1958 season. He doesn't appear to have ridden again until 1960, when he had a very brief spell (not sure how many matches he rode) with Swindon again. In 1961, he turned out for Wolverhampton in the PL, only to retire again mid-season. EDIT In 1958, Ernie started out the season in some style, and his lowest score in the first four matches was 9 paid 11! He soon lost form, and retired. In 1960 he rode in four matches; three Britannia Shield and one league.

Well, it was before my time, but I developed a great interest from our scrapbooks. My mum was only interested in Wimbledon, but my dad was always a general speedway fan, and collected photos. For some reason, there seemed to be a lot of Swindon pics, with plenty of Ian Williams and George White! So, even as a young kid, there seemed something special about them, and I still have his photos, including Broady, Meredith, Brett, Board, and Teo.

Like me? Why, thank you!!!

Yawn........ Anyway, back to the subject, if Sidney doesn't object? Another interesting fact, Bob, is that while Ernie Lessiter doesn't grab the headlines the same as the others, he was actually unbeaten from the reserve position no fewer than FIVE times! That in itself is pretty impressive...

Nobody is expecting you to bow down. All you have to do is accept that fact will always take precedence over opinion. Again, please just let it go...

If you look at the season's results, it really did change overnight for the Robins. It's amazing what a little team spirit does!

Please, just let it go, and stop hijacking all these threads. Oh, and I'm going nowhere...

Weird... Like you, I have this feeling that he was an incredible rider, but unfortunately, there seems to be so little information available about Tommy, and he is largely forgotten these days. I have just been able to get most of my speedway books out of storage, and I will go through them and see what I can find about him. Can anyone else on the BSF provide any info?

Returning to the subject, I looked into It a little more... What is particularly interesting is that Swindon started off the 1957 season in pretty poor fashion! They struggled in a few challenge matches, and their Britannia Shield fixtures weren't impressive either. Things appeared to change when they acquired Neil Street for the start of the league programme. It wasn't just a case of his own scoring making the difference, but they really seemed to gel as a team. The main thing that happened was that even when one of their heat-leaders had an off-night, someone else usually managed to step up with a good performance. Prime example was at Southampton, which ultimately won them the league; Ian Williams and George White only scored four between them, yet they won 49-47. Overall, it was quite a remarkable change of fortune when Streety arrived...

The fact that the top six Robins all scored 100 points or more shows you just how solid they were. It is just incredible to see a rider move up a division and do as well as Bob Roger did; that doesn't happen every day.

Very sad. Another real good'un gone...

You don't think that I am a valuable member of the BSF with an extensive knowledge of speedway? Would me leaving the BSF make you happy?

Why am I sad? What do I need to think about? Why can't you let it go and move on?

What is sad is that you still insist on insults and name-calling, yet you call ME the bully?

Apologies mean absolutely bugger all if you turn around and then repeat that kind of nonsense the next day - which you invariably do. Exactly what "co-operation" do you want from me? You are the one who insists we are "at war", yet I have repeatedly told you that we are not. I don't like some of the stupidity you post, but that doesn't mean I hate you or have a problem with you. I have a problem when you resort to insults and name-calling, and I have a BIG problem when you lie and falsely accuse me of things, but if you don't do that, everything is cool. I have had some problems with iris123 in the past, but we sorted that out like adults. Even so, that doesn't mean we always agree on things, but that is fine.

It would help matters if you tried to act in an adult manner when engaged in discussion, and to read what is being said. Here are some FACTS: 1) Online forums and groups usually have rules and guidelines. Not just about general behaviour and attitude, but things like NO multiple accounts, NO spamming etc. 2) Gustix has broken these rules on the BSF (on more than one occasion), and is punished accordingly. What I have said here is that "I don't understand why he does things like that", and I really don't. Do you? There is absolutely nothing critical or derogatory in that statement. I have said many times (both publicly, and to him personally), that John is - and SHOULD be - a valuable member of the BSF. Why he resorts to breaking rules, or even bending them, is beyond me. Yes, I genuinely HAVE tried to help John, because he needs it sometimes. Recently, he was blatantly posting copyrighted photos on here, and I advised him that he couldn't do that without permission. Whatever you think my opinion of him is, I honestly don't want to see him getting into serious legal trouble (which he can do with things like that). It can also reflect badly on the forum as a whole. There is nothing that I have said here that is FALSE, or that can be construed as arrogant.

I'm sorry, but it is fact. There are rules on online forums and groups for a reason, and John has been shown to break these rules on multiple occasions. I'm not taking any pleasure in saying it, which is why I have actually tried to help him. Despite what you may think, I do not hate John; I just don't understand why he does some of the things he does.