chunky

I do remember seeing Conny at Plough Lane (just after my seventh birthday). I can't really say just how good (or bad) he was, but I know he didn't pull up any trees. He had a pretty long career, I think...

Can't argue with any of that...

Well, she's got a deeper voice than Zmarzlik...

EVEN IF IT IS PROVEN OTHERWISE!!!

And unfortunately - particularly when it comes to motorsport - one person will always find a way to make it go quicker...

The whole idea - particularly when items of sporting equipment (motorised or otherwise) - is to be BETTER than your opponents. You should just stay within the rules.

Remember Phil, if it's on the internet, it MUST be true! Doubly so if it's speedway...

So you don't think that the better participants should be rewarded? Do you favour handicap systems?

Don't know what Kelvin was on about; looked good to me too...

More tedious also-rans... Oh, and frauds!

Fair point. I was just focused on the fact that Madsen took a spot he shouldn't have...

That's still totally ignoring the specific question you had and the response I gave - the ONLY response to your question.

To be fair, John, you bring a lot of it upon yourself, certainly the way you contradict yourself. I'm also a little disappointed with you at the moment. You were repeatedly asking the same question on the "Riders who never made it" thread, and seemed increasingly agitated by the fact that nobody could/would respond. As a BSF member who could answer from personal experience, I took the time and effort to provide a response from different perspectives. Not for the first time, you chose to ignore what I had to say - and and the fact that I even responded to you - even though the subject appeared to be a life or death matter to you.

Yep, that's it... It just gets me that everyone picks holes in a system for something that MIGHT happen (but won't) but then hate it when you compare it to an equally flawed system where something COULD have happened (but didn't)! To be honest, I think that's why they changed it - because winning a GP in previous years didn't really mean anything as far as the overall standings. As many on here said, heavier weighting on the semis and final would probably have taken care of a lot of that. Think about it from last year; why should someone who scrapes in to the final, and then wins one race, get the rewards of GP winner, yet a rider who only dropped one point in seven races DOESN'T win? Oh, wait a minute, a similar thing has happened this year - twice! Only difference is, Woffinden and Lindgren picked up extra points. Of course, the main thing as far as the organisers are concerned is that they want the title to go down to the wire - which doesn't actually happen in most major sports! It's just a matter of finding the right balance...

For those who are interested (all you anoraks), here is how a rider COULD have won EVERY GP last year, and not finished in the Top 8. 6 points could get you into the semis, plus 2 from the semi, and 3 for winning the final. Of course, there are variations on this, but I tried to keep it simple. The top section is the final points awarded for each GP, and the bottom section is the season-end totals with final positions. Again, this was just something I did for fun, and to prove that while most of us preferred the old system, it was far from perfect! As has been EVERY system...

I still felt bad for Fricke, as had the ref done the right thing, he would have been in the semis.

That was my point; every system flawed, but people don't think like that., Do you think it was fair that a rider could win every GP, and not even qualify for the following year? No, it was never going to happen, but... Again, this year is the same for everyone, and the riders knew what it was like before they started the season.Like EVERY World Championship season previously...

I never said anything it about being better or worse. You were the one who said it was. You complained that a rider COULD be World Champion this year without winning a race; I said you COULD have done that with the old World Final system. It doesn't matter that a winner of a GP HASN'T finished with 10 points on the night, and I was using that to illustrate that it was possible with the World Final system. Referring to the anomalies of the 2020 GP system, I haven't been through all the possibilities. However, with the previous system, it WAS possible for someone to win EVERY GP (yes, all ten) and not finish in the Top 8. That is FACT. To correct you, 12 was not the lowest possible winning score - a rider could qualify with 6 points (plus the semi and final). Again, I have stated that I preferred the old system, but do YOU think it's fair that it was possible for a rider to do what I said? Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it will, and just because something HASN'T happened doesn't mean it won't. No system is perfect, despite what we may prefer, or what we may think.

Have you ever thought of reading - and comprehending - what was written, instead making nonsensical claims? I never said this was fairer, and I never said this was better, so don't put words in my mouth. I have stated on here (on multiple occasions) that I much preferred the system used in previous years. As I said though, it was possible to win every GP, and not finish in the Top 8. I will be back in a little while with all the figures for you. In the meantime, you said that a rider could win the World Championship this year without winning a race the whole season. We all know that it was POSSIBLE to do that with the old world final system. You didn't have to win a race to get through the qualifying rounds. In the final itself, there were 120 points at stake, which gives an average per rider of 7.5 points. Therefore, anything ABOVE the average could win. Keeping it simple, a rider could finish with 10 points (five second places), which means that the average for the other 15 is 7.33. So, not only could the winner not need to win a race, he could win with points to spare. So, why is this year so bad when it was possible before? As I said, I will be back in a little while.

Not Madsen, obviously. Not EVERY time, anyway!

It was no different with the old World Final system. Did you complain about that? It was theoretically possibly for a rider to not only become World Champion, but to win every GP, and not even make Top 8 and qualify for this year. Did you complain about that? And before you question me, yes, I have previously PROVEN that on here... However, just because something is possible, we all know it will never happen.

You never got penalised, as you never got out of the gate that quick, mate!!!

I'd go there just for t' local cuisine!

If one of these two jump now...

Really feel bad for Fricke...