Ben91

That's the kind of team you can track if you blood young Brits, well done scunny, take a leaf out of their book other clubs, it could help Britain become a speedway force again in the future!

He's not dead...

Respect to that lad, drink driving apart!

Because you are going off the point I made Parsloes, how did Lakeside embrace the project more then Rye? I want facts, not "They produced a better programme." because the programme is not promoting the sport or club. Len Silver does charge too much for Speedway, be it PL or NL level but that isn't my point at all, I even said I wasn't defending him or making him out to be a saint but if it wasn't for him we'd have lost a National League speedway club mid season. It'd be fantastic for the sport to return to London I agree however.

I never claimed to know the story did I?... So basically Len stepped in and gave Cook and Vatcher half the Rye NL sides meetings... You have still not answered my question, just written an essay which I'm really not bothered about. Sometimes you have to accept you're wrong...

I totally agree Waco, however if there was no Rye NL team it would be terrible for British speedway IMO, especially with talents such as Morley, Hazelden, Owen and Freemantle, I doubt they would all be accommodated at other NL tracks if Rye wasn't running, whilst none are ready to step up full time to the Premier League, without NL riding to help them develop. In an ideal world, the Raiders will return, entrance fees will drop and fans will come back from the wilderness to watch Rye House's very own National League side.

The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption.

How did Lakeside promote better than Rye then, facts to back up your point please.

I don't really understand how your point is relevant to my post. All I've said is Ben was the top point scoring rider on the night, which I believe should make him champion, however as the semi and final are in the rules, Garrity equally deserves the crown because he went out and won the final.

As I said in my original post, Morley was the best rider, points wise on the night, he did get lucky a few times, but that is speedway. In my opinion, he should have been crowned champion because he scored more points than the other riders on the night. However we know that in Finals things rarely go the way of the top rider on the night, he didn't do himself any favours regarding his gate choice for the final, 4 and 2 were working better all night and as much as I like Ben and think he is a top talent, he rarely makes a pass, as soon as he hit bend 2 it was clear he wasn't going to take the crown. Garrity raced very well and he deserved the title because he won the final. Simple as that.

How you can call the short comings of both promotions Len Silvers fault is beyond me. How people can suggest the Hawks racing solely at Lakeside would have made them successful is also a lot of rubbish (stronger word should be used but it's a family forum ). Hopwood (Who is now a Rye asset) and Freemantle aside, all the Hawks had previous Rye connections. Whilst Owen and Hazelden are both Hammers assets, if there wasn't the Hawks they would both be Rye NL riders this season anyway. It is a real shame the venture hasn't worked, it could have been fantastic for both parties if promoted properly, the message to both promotions should really be, you only get out what you put in. I hope Rye will continue to track a NL team, in the form of the Raiders (Not Cobras, such a poor team nickname) from 2012 onwards and carry on bringing through the young Brits.

From a realistic view, this was never going to work and it wasn't a way of re-creating the Dudley model either. It was a way for Rye to lose a few fixtures to ease congestion and for Lakeside to add a few to keep a steady flow of weekly speedway. The way the Sheffield/Scunthorpe team have been named is silly IMO, however it is better than trying to bring fans in from a track which has no real link to either track, with the the exception of Len Silver promoting at Rye. There were no plans to get Hackney back in to Hackney itself and this is probably what kept a lot of people away, the Dudley fans are a rare breed, there were lots at Rye tonight for the British Under 19 Final, if the meeting wasn't at Rye, I wouldn't have attended, so it shows their commitment. There was no Hackney merchandise either and programmes were not even Hackney programmes, little things like that just add to the mickey mouse approach this was unfortunately given. If it was approached the right way, things could have been a great success and the partnership between Rye and Lakeside would have blossomed with riders being able to progress from the NL to the EL without having to club hop. I doubt this will signal the end of NL at Rye from next season, however I'd love to see the Raiders name brought back, Raiders meetings always used to draw decent crowds and having sides with riders such as Boxall, Allen, Bowen, Mear, Burchatt, Betson, Halsey and Powell, all who have gone on to PL at least helped get the fans excited.

There was some good racing tonight, Garrity is certainly one heck of a talent. Personally I don't agree with the semi's and final system but that's speedway and I feel for Ben Morley as points wise, he was the best rider on the night. Pleasantly surprised at the standard of racing and also with James Sarjeant's performance in particular, made one cracking pass, fell whilst comfortably beating Morley in another race and maybe not getting a choice of gates in the final hampered him. I wouldn't mind seeing Garrity, Sarjeant or Tom Perry in a Rye race-jacket in the future, that's for sure.

If your boss told you it was safe to stick your head in the oven would you? There is a difference between tricky and untraceable conditions, if the riders felt unsafe racing then they are within their rights to not race.

Not at all mate, nothing wrong with a decent speedway debate, we both have differing opinions perhaps, but that's life and I'm sure we both want what is best for the sport in Britain because it would be terrible to see Britain drop back any further than we already have done on the international stage. If it does happen it will send the sport into a bigger decline than it is already in in the UK. So these lads need all the support they can get from the authorities.

I think you are reading my post wrongly mate, whilst the loopholes are there then good luck to the Aussie lads for using them to their advantage, also like you say, it would be hard to close them due to the lads having dual nationality and they have the right to choose, my point being, if they choose Australia then they should have to join the PL on a 5 point average. They make their bed so should have to lie in it. It would be naive to say if the 2/3 spots filled by young Aussies who will go on to ride for Aus were taken by Brits it would turn around the fortunes of British speedway but every little has an impact further down the line, granted these lads will go on to ride PL anyway but there's no reason they shouldn't start there rather than going through the NL. Back on topic, hopefully the lads who are going can come away from the meeting with a good result and valuable experience. 'Ommer um

Which is exactly the point, these riders should be told if they want to come in to the National League they have to be classed as a British rider, if they want to go into the PL on a 3 point average they have to ride as a British rider and if they want their 2.5% average reduction each year they have to ride as a Brit. It's quite easy to grasp, if they are going to use these loopholes in the rules to better themselves that's fair enough and I can't blame them for doing so, however these loopholes should be closed. I'm against foreign riders in the NL and the BSPA are shooting themselves in the foot with regards to developing our own talent by letting a few slip through the net. It may only be one or two but they are spots which could be taken by British riders who would race for Britain if they ever got the sufficient standard.

Garrity has the potential to be a very good rider that's sure, he's got a long way to go though. As for Morris if he isn't going to ride for Britain then why was he allowed to ride in the NL on a 3 point average and to sign for Glasgow on a 3 point average. Such a shame that money can't be put into our young riders travelling abroad to these meetings, the experience is just what they and the future of our nations speedway needs.

He should be classed as British yes, but I wouldn't put him in the best 5.

Nick Morris rode in the NL as a Brit so should be selected to ride for our Under 19 side, the side should really be: Nick Morris Kyle Howarth Ash Morris Jake Knight Shane Hazelden Obviously thats if it was to be done by averages, I'm sure there are reasons the lads going have been selected though, hopefully they can put on a good show and with Wizzer behind them they have a great team manager and mentor.

That's very true, glad my comments haven't been taken the wrong way either, because I'd love nothing more to see any of these lads go on to the top of the sport, it just seems there is no Kennett or Bridger coming through even, let alone a Crumpy or Rickardsson. I hope we do see a fair few of these lads head onwards and upwards into the Elite League and maybe even Grand Prix in future.

Totally agree with your points Waco, but just as a comparison, Eddie Kennett was a PL Number 1 in his first season in the division, which was his second season racing. I can't see any of the lads here making the same impact i'm afraid, some, hopefully most of them will make the grade in the sport, however I can't see a future GP rider in the field i'm afraid.

Too true, the days of a Kennett or Bridger coming in and dominating the NL (or CL as it was then) have gone too and neither of those have gone on to be top world riders. This meeting will be good and competitive but on the whole, I fear for the future of British speedway.

Mason has certainly done a lot better than expected this season, fair play to him for that. Spot on, it's nothing to do with this forum, it's the fact it's too expensive why people stay away from these meetings and it is a real shame as the National League is a great product. The railings go all around the track and they stop fans going right up to the safety fence, there's nothing wrong with the track, it's a regulation that has to be fulfilled. Watering is always an issue at Rye, the track never seems to get the pre-meeting watering to keep the dust at bay that it needs, so the grading during the meeting is drawn out and nothing kills the atmosphere more than watching tractors go round for 10 minutes at a time every 2 heats. As for the Pies, Steak and Kidney is horrible

Where were ya mate? I never saw you, otherwise I'd have come said hello!