Parsloes 1928 nearly

Ha, ha, ha... So you all ignore the obvious fact that the current system is grossly weighted in favour of those in it and excludes others from a fair chance of competing, yet somehow come with a hypothesis that the likes of a two-time World Final runner-up (Plechanov) didn't, er, deserve to even be in the Final!! That's utterly - as was said by someone earlier... - bonkers!!! The fact that Eastern Europeans like him and indeed all bar Plech & Muller of those previously mentioned (at the time they made the rostrum...) did so with the clear disadvantage of not having had even the chance of racing in Britain, shows what a meritocracy the old system was.. You all (well most of you...) clearly prefer the GP series but to me it's been handled so badly.. I would - of course - prefer the old one-off World Final (it was bar none the greatest sporting event in the world - a night of unrivalled excitement..) - but okay if there has to be season-long series fair enough. What is NOT fair enough is what we have, when 11 of the same riders (out of 15) can stay in it unchallenged from outside their ranks leaving the slimest of pickings for 'outsiders'... Can you honestly imagine what would've been said if the old WF had changed so that the top eight one year were automaticaly in it the next year... Anyone who would've suggested that would have been laughed out of the place; but that is EXACTLY what we have now... And it's not as if all of the other eight places are even up for grabs either.. I think we should agree to differ but I still have yet to hear one argument even attempting to defend the gross unfairness of the current 'cosy club' system we have... You all just want to defend it regardless of even attempting to put forward an argument in its defence...

Yes the Poles & Russians back then didn't ride in the British or other western Europe leagues but that surely is no reason to have prohibited them. And you misrepresent how well they did. Plechanov was runner-up two years running in the mid-60s, Poles Walosek, Jancarz (who you mentioned in totally unfairly disparaging terms), Woryna (twice) and Plech (twice also) all made a WF rostrum. And I hesitate to mention the dreaded 'S' word as I know what reaction it'll bring (though Rob shall leap to the hapless Mr. Szczakiel's defence! ), but if one recalls '73 one will see that if Jerzy was an unlikely winner two riders very unlucky on the day not to have in fact pipped him were contryman Plech and top Russian, Chlinovski. Indeed between 1964 and 1984 the 'Continentals' produced 10 rostrum finishes to Australia's three!! So let's not be having it made out that they were all totally useless!!

Good god... The qualifying process allows at best exactly HOW many into the competition..? Four, is it..?... If people honestly can't see what's wrong with that then I do, in truth, give up... Defend the GP system as much as you like but for god's sake recognise that it is the perfect way to maintain the status quo and immeasurably more difficult to break into than to fall out of!!! As a matter of interest what is it about this that so many of you fail to understand!!

Look, of the 15 riders who started out in this year's GP, ELEVEN of them have 'qualified' directly for next year's (ie not needed to qualify by other means).. The top eight (yes staying in the top eight is tough but one's only competing with a further seven to do so...!). And this year those who finished 9th., 10th. and 11th. have all also been allowed back in!! Now there MAY have been occasions when the 9th. place for example DIDN'T qualify automatically (ie given seeded berth in following year's Series) - someone who knows about these things can tell us... - but I doubt it's happened often: so effectively one can afford to finish 9th., 10th and even 11th. and have a good chance of being back in... This is MASSIVELY different from having a proper qualifying system open to all... Surely to goodness whatever your views, people can see this!!! Good points have been made about the WF system of old in which riders had good runs in it even from a lower division... So it's NOT about me naming names, as Impartial One wants me to do it's about having a proper chance given to whoever is in a position to excel... Whatever you say, to have just four max spaces available (under the model used this year) for such riders is miles and miles away from being good enough and this has fundamentally changed (IMO for the worse...) our sport's World Championship.

Hmm, the symbol of someone who has no means to defend his point of view...!

It's NOT that simple... If we had a proper World Championship riders would compete on a level playing field and who am I to predict who'd qualify and who wouldn't. You really are very conservative - what you want is the same old names year in year out... No world championship worth its salt should be one in which people are "selected to enter"; nor should it be one when it's so, so much easier to stay in it than it is to either drop out or qualify into.. Now those ARE simple facts!!

Ha, ha, ha! You've never ONCE answered ANY of the points made about the fact that the GP series is largely a closed-shop massively favouring those in it... This is the whole point about how unfair the current series is compared to the previous proper World Championship system.. I don't expect you to start now - coz frankly there's nothing you can say to contradict that point as it's an absolute fact!!

Er, nice evasion (for the umpteenth time!) of the point!!!

Exactly!! My exact point about the fact that under the current system it's considerably easier for those already in the bloody thing to stay in it... A less (considerably less..) than 50% chance of not being in it the following year... This was NOT the case with the old style World Championship for which, no matter who you were, you had to qualify each year!

It does! Many thanx! Tuff was my favourite 2011 tourist!!

But there were teenagers who made the World Final and were very serious contenders - three of the greatest riders of all time did so: Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins and Michael Lee. AND as I said before (and THIS is a point literally no-one has responded to...) there were also riders who weren't young in age but very young in terms of Speedway experience who came into the sport and saw that they could, if good enough, reach the top and get a shot at the World title more or less immediately: the classic example being John Louis. Whatever else may or may not be matters of opinion, it's an absolute FACT that those opportunties to do that are NOT here now.. Now possibly that doesn't matter (it doesn't clearly to you but then with all due respect you're not a rider!) but it may be a factor in the steady decline of the sport... I think at least you should recognise that there IS a glass ceiling now, when frankly they didn't used to be.. But I know you won't!!

And seems (for once... ) my prediction was right as McBride tuffed it out for third place!!

World Champs are getting older...: much older. No teenager will win the World title ever again. But you say there are no obstacles... I've spelt out in painful detail exactly WHY the current system favours those in it to the exclusion of those trying to get in... Even I can't be bothered to keep repeating these points again and again. None of you ever respond to any of the points raised in argument against the current sysatem, you just keep repeating again and again that it doesn't matter how old you are... My point is basically the same... It shouldn't matter how young you are either... Except that in the current system sadly it does...!

It's clear enuff... The majority of you on here want to diss young riders like Darcy Ward saying they're not good enuff; should have to wait years before getting a chance; that this is fine for the future of the sport etc. All I'm saying is that this situation with very old riders winning the World Championship every year is unprecedented in the history of the sport; I'm concerned that ultimately this won't be to the benefit of the sport; and would prefer to see less obstacles put in the way of younger riders. Okay..?!

Er, but that's NOT happening!! The GPs are clearly being totally dominated by the elder end of that age range!!

Of course not just that. But surely you can see that for decades we had the World Final (ie the World Champion decided) here at Wembley; then moved to share on alternate basis with Sweden, then Poland and yes gradually GB Finals were less frequent; but now since the early GPs at Hackney, the GB GP is always so early season it's all but meaningless in the World Championshup race. It would give the sport here a lift to think that at least there's an opportunity to see the World Champ clinch the title here again after an enormously long time (by my reckoning it was Nielsen at London Stadium in '95 the last time this happened..)

Well, obviously from my angle I'm going to say revert to a season-long WC system which involves qualifiers at GB tracks... But as that's unlikely - it would help if the GB GP could at some point be a decisive one (ie near or at the end of the series...) - at least next year it will be a fair bit later than previouis Cardiff ones.

Okay a fair point. But the British scene would benefit from a greater connection generally between the World Championship and the sport in this country...

I agree and, as you know, I completely respect your opinions but all I'd say is that yes, it has taken the sport into the 21st. century by mimicing things like F1 but whereas F1 has probably never been in a healthier state, our sport is not exactly thriving; and maybe, just maybe, there is another way and that is to take a pause, consider the options and maybe look to what used to work as a possible option.. When the sport is dead we'll certainly have plenty of time on our hands to reflect on it..!!

Nah, gonna stick my neck out and predict that Tuff will have quite a good afternoon...

No problem with the five, for depending on the event five riders always been a possibility (though on such a small track a less good idea..); but have to say I've NEVER heard our sport referred to as the "motorcycle equivalent of Formula One racing"..!!

Okay - I take it that the majority of posters on here are more than happy with the way things are... Must just be me who'd prefer to see the odds stacked just a little better in favour of the young & up-and-coming as opposed to the old and established But I would just say this: - it's an absolute FACT that the World Championship atm is being dominated by an older aged range of riders than EVER before. Throwing in Ivan's geriatric win in '79 ain't gonna change the fact that back in the days of the WF it WAS easier to arrive on the scene and break through to the very top: egs are not always of the very young (like Lee) - check out how long it took John Louis to get from convertee from 'Scrambling' to second division Speedway to 4th. in a WF... What was it, a couple of years!!) - and it's also an absolute mathematical FACT that it's far easier to stay in the GPs once in than it is to qualify.. 8 out of 15 guaranteed; though in reality another two or sometimes three more of less guaranteed through the seeded route. Come 9th. or 10th..? Oh give 'em another chance... Be British, yes well you're needed... So it is without question more difficult to break in. I wish those of you who fundamentally disagree with me would at least recognise those two facts.. Then you MIGHT acknowledge the frustration the combo of the two is likely to give to young riders surveying the current WC situation and comtemplating if there's ever going to be a chance for them. Henry made a good point This I don't doubt is a good reason too... And if so, that's a big shame ... As the sport I first loved back in the '70s was meant to be about the skill of the man on the bike not the superior quality of the bike and its back-up team in the pits... The latter what was other (inferior imo) motor sports went for...

Hmm, you're missing the point that the number of places available each year to, er, qualify for the NEXT year once one's outside the existing GP field is very small... In the old system you qualified for a World Championship in THAT year (held in September) and if say the host nation was allowed 4 slots, there were 12 other places up for grabs... Don't seriously tell me that you don't think Darcy would've qualified under such a set up for the mythical 2011 World Final..!!

Okay Phil - fair enough. I withdraw what I said, I did go too far and I apologise... This thread should've been about how good young Darcy is and I hope we can all agree that he is a fantastic breath of fresh air and along with the likes of Chris and Tai and others coming down the pike, can offer the sport an exciting future

Hmm, check out the comments made by Pearson & Tatum commentating on the following years GB GP Final...: they refer to exactly that, that Hancock let Harris past. I've watched the race again today after a long gap and there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that Hancock looks (er, WHY does he look...: does he do this every race..?, er, no..); checks out that it's the home rider, Harris (rather than Crump who he may have been expecting...); and as a result lets him past.. To be honest, it's as clear as the day is long that he did this.. IF this had been, say, one Pole letting another pPole through to gain points the whole Speedway world would've slated them endlessly. Can I explain WHY he did it..? No, not really - except that at that stage in his career Hancock was neither serious contender nor in danger of slipping out of the top 8.. And that it increased the popularity of the sport here and didn't do Greg's any harm either, so was something of a win-win... Simple questions... As above: why that long lingering look; and how many times since has Harris won a GP..?