Parsloes 1928 nearly

Well yes but I stand by being a tad positive that it WAS a good-sized crowd!!! Plenty of tracks Dave where never mind turn up late, if you 'phone ahead to say you're coming they'd wait 'til you got there!!

Hi Tony, Thommo was at the closing meeting last season at Arena Essex, the 'Hackney' match... Will ask around but in truth guess Bryn on here may well know...

Come on Phil - they WERE very big crowds... Big overspill car parking used and very difficult by start time to find a good viewing position... If you don't think those were good sized crowds you certainly are a hard man to please!!!

Hmm, been huge crowds at the Norfolk Arena in both of the last two years as there was for that WCF at Reading a few years back... Seems to be doing okay on these shores.. So, Phil, do you know...: is there actually this threat to the World Cup as a team competition as the originator of this thread asked?

Not sure about Woodsy though am sure he challenged for it at least but in 1983 (when the competition was back to single challenges) both Kevin Teager and Barry Thomas had good runs (in Thommo's case twice) of holding the Silver Helmet.

To the 'finals' (as in, in the football example the last 32..) NOT all the way to an actual Final...

Joey actually rode in only the third meeting I ever attended: for Barrow at Canterbury in 1973 (must've been one one of his first ever meetings - Tom was there too..) but I first noticed his brilliance in an amazingly memorable Newcatle win at Arlington two years later when he scored a maximum and won the second half too,, He was a superb rider and will remain one of my all-time favourites...

Well that's right. Though the employment law side of things has 16 as the changeover point in terms of rights/protections - so there COULD be employment issues even with 15 year olds racing NL.. My issue is as much about health & safety. I once saw (I won't name the rider/ocassion) a 15 year old gravelly injured in a crash when there did seem for a few hours a chance it could be a fatality. Mercifully that rider has fully recovered but I can tell you when the Police attended the stadium (as they did) as a potential fatal accident investigation was launched and I saw the youngsters's date of birth it made my blood run cold at the thought that someone only just 15 could've been killed on a British track... So any younger than that...? No I really don't think we should ever go down that road..

Well come on, 15 is young enough... What possible grounds could there be to give "special permission" to allow a 13 year old in... It would have to apply across the board and there has to be a cut off point which - as I say - really can't surely go lower than 15...

And '76 was another WTC at White City England (aka GB) didn't qualify for!!

Interesting - I don't know what Richardson's time was but though I guess must've been a good one, certainly didn't beat the Plough Lane track record. That was at that time held by the rider who remains the greatest I've ever seen, Peter Collins who'd set a mark of 58.5 on 24th. June 1976 and it stood until Scott Autrey broke it in April 1978 with a time of 58.2. Autrey's record stood then for almost four years! The Wimbledon T/R in those days wasn't beaten often at all. The record PC had broken had been shared by two men before that. Tiger Louis who set a time of 59.6 in the very first meeting I'd been to at Plough Lane, the 1974 Internationale and equalled towards the end of the following season by a man with considerable Crayford and Kentish Speedway connections: only Thommo himself!!!

Tish, tish Malc...: I thought your London geography was better than that... QPR do NOT play in South London! In the shadow of God's greatest ever stadium (sadly no longer there!), the White City in very west London, Shepherd's Bush! I agree - also gutted for Asbo. How much more does the lad have to do - been badly treated now by Bournemouth and Mildenhall: two clubs he was instrumental in winning cups for.. What's the latest on Mark too, Nikko?

Tbf, there is something of an argument to say that Neilsen IS a Scandinavian rider...!!

He's signed up for Ipswich in that division hasn't he..?

Hmm, semantics there Phil...: declining the offer to compete and withdrawing are surely one and the same thing..! The rest of your posting I'm reluctant to comment on as we're not meant to be discussing this subject but I would suggest what you're saying here is pretty explosive new info. about Darcy's recent decision...

Yes I know that but that was of course one of the 'rounds' of the actual Final... I can't think it at all likely that should there be a world championship qualifying set of rounds that anyone would plan for Europeans to go to Argentina just for a qualifier... And it's a disgrace really that neither NZ or Australia (the birthplace of the sport...: cue Norbold to contradict!!) never had a chance to see the World Championship decided on their shores...

Sorry Paul - I think I must've been away for Easter or something coz I missed that match.. We did then take on the Diamonds in a Challenge at London Rd. in July and have the details of that. Also a thriller - ending in a draw. Crayford 39 (Laurie Etheridge 10; Gary Spencer 2; Alan Sage 8; Mike Broadbank 5+2; Alan Johns 7+1; 3; Dave Shepherd 4+1; Colin Archer 3+1) Newcastle 39 (Phil Michelides 9+2; Joe Owen 17; Robbie Blackadder 8+3; Andy Cusworth 3+1; Martin Cusworth 2; Greg Clarke 0) (Challenge) No Tom I notice - but a great performance from Joey... He was my favourite non-Kestrel... What a talent...

Yes but it's a GP series which does not IMHO meet the requirements of a proper World Championship - in that it's far, far too based on maintaining a small group of riders' position in it rather than allowing an open access to others to try and compete for the title.

He won the Grand Prix series... Which is funny enough what it's called...

Er, I was certainly NOT saying that! I mentioned Argentina because you used it as an example of a place you say (apparently) young riders might have to journey to in order to qualify for a World Championship should we still have one! Seemed a rather spurious point so I merely pointed out that in the current SGP system there is NOT an Argentina GP so I can't really buy your example as being anything other than attempting to argue a point which doesn't exist..! The lack of US and Australian GPs is more serious bearing in mind two of the last three World Champs have been from those two countries!!

Hmm, well I can think of several riders in recent years who've declared their intention NOT to try and qualify. And Darcy Ward has just opted out of taking part even when given a place. So there clearly IS something wrong... Absolutely - sums it up completely...

These ae NOT arguments in any way in favour of the grossly inadequate system we have now! There's no Argentina GP (nor indeed an Australian or USA GP for that matter..)! And whoever said (not I..) that they'd be such disparity in where riders had to race qualifiers... What's wrong with the GP system is the 'Rossi and Parfett' factor...: ie that it merely protects the status quo!! No young riders need to concern themselves with where they might have to travel to qualify...: coz it ain't happening is it!!

Ah, I've missed you having a go at me, Malc!! Happy New Year!!!

There is VERY slim picking qualification wise... Whereas for those already IN the SGP series it is an absolute fact that it's easier to stay in it than to drop out.. I just think we need to accept that this is the case (rather than arguing that somehow these facts don't exist!) and then consider if that's something we want our World Championship to be.. If it is, fine.. Personally i think it makes it a far inferior product from the perspective of being a proper World Championship (as opposed to a Grand Prix Series) than not just the way it was previously but also the way it COULD be now..

Alright let's use a specific example. This lot contested a GB qualifying round at Crayford in 1981: 1st. Barry Thomas (Crayford) 13; 2nd. Ian Gledhill (Mildenhall) 12 (after r/o); 3rd. Dave Morton (Sheffield) 12; 4th. Dave Perks (Oxford) 12; 5th. Tim Hunt (Ipswich) 11; 6th. Colin Richardson (Wimbledon) 11; 7th. Mark Courtney (Middlesborough) 8; 8th. Dave Kennett (Eastbourne) 8; 9th. Denzil Kent (Canterbury) 7; 10th. Rob Henry (Mildenhall) 7; 11th. Barney Kennett (Canterbury) 6; 12th. Alan Sage (Crayford) 5; 13th.= Richard Knight (Mildenhall) 3; 13th.= Steve Finch (Ellesmere Port) 3; 15th. = Peter Johns (Wimbledon) 1; 15th.= Ian Williams (Wimbledon) 1 Now can you see (though you're so blinkered and duplicitous I doubt it...) the massive difference between the way the championship race used to be and the virtually closed shop it's now become..?!