Parsloes 1928 nearly

So are we saying then that there WAS a 20k drop in attendance between a sold out '78 Wembley Final and the one just three years later in '81? This is appears to be what is being said here..? Only, if this was the case would've expected there to have been a massive amount written at the time about what would've been a hugely dramatic decine in interest..

Are you sure about that!? He was British Final and Overseas Final (the penultimate round of the World Championship) winner that year too... Find it hard to see how that would make him "nowhere near the top 10"..?!

72k certainly not an attendance to be sniffed at but I too think it was probably more than this. Why after all, would it have been capacity in '78 and a mere three years later almost 20k less??!! We know Speedway started to decline but that would've been a serious early sign of such a decline!!!

Well it is interesting that we've had this debate spread over several threads and over about a year or so now and yet here we have from GRW123 (who - forgive me if I'm wrong - hasn't contributed to those previous debates) what is probably the most considered and sensible contribution I've seen on this subject. I promised not to be over-involved this time but certainly I will endorse most of what's been said by this poster!!

There are two sides to sport though, speedyguy...: not just the way governing bodies organise things but also what fans find exciting and gets numbers through the gates. Funny enough it's THAT side of things which has led Sky and the Elite League promoters to decide there should be the play-offs (effectively like a 'one-off' Final) to decide the league title; and yes, this does produce great excitement and large crowds. My (well-documented!) support for a one-off World Final is, in truth, based purely on that too...: that the old World Final was an amazingly exciting sporting event. I've been to many big events (FA Cup Finals, Internationals in several sports, World Cup Final in Rugby League etc.) but nothing to me has ever matched the excitement of the Speedway World Final. So yes, I accept all the points about the SGP system producing a fair winner over a season long set of rounds (am NOT going into the qualification system again as that row's been done to death!) but to me, it can NEVER replicate that excitement and THAT'S what's lacking. This is only my opinion but I do have to say that the reason sport is popular is generally more to do with excitement than consistency!!

Ah, bloody girlfriends.. I had a ticket for 1981 World Final (the last one at Wembley and often described as the best) but my squeeze at the time booked us a holiday to Malta flying out that same night so I had to give it up... Should've given up the GF instead and gone to the WF!!

Well, indeed! Coz despite this being (as more or less everyone knows!) my favourite subject, even I can't be bothered to join in! Which MUST be a great relief to you all!

Not sure if that's any more the correct 'status'; but there are issues, not least that of Planning which I think only allows training and amateur racing... Heaven knows why Planning consent for a Speedway track would concern itself with the status of the riders who use it, but there you go...

I guess you think you're being ultra witty... My advice though is don't give up the day job...

I hope both non-league tracks (both with huge training pedigree) Sittingbourne/Iwade and Northside are included this year again. Oh and how good would it be to have Lydd too..

Yep - and both great Dons' captains!!!

:lol:

Indeed and don't forget Split Waterman, the only man other than Plechanov - I think I'm right in saying - to twice be a World Final runner up and yet never to have lifted the title at another time. To me those two, Plechanov & the peerless Squire Francis Waterman esquire are along with Vic Duggan the three who most deserve the title described in the title of this thread...

Well I respect your opinion but I really can't imagine many people (not even the man himself!) would rate Mike Bast even in their top 50 (or even 100!)...

Hmm, would seem our friend CAN'T explain what he meant!

Speedway was in the '70s and '80s as it is now, a WORLD sport and fair enough Mike Bast may have been one of the best in the world but as he never really tested himself against the others (who remember were Kiwis, other Americans, British, Aussies, Danes, Swedes etc.) then no, I really don't think he CAN be truly assessed..

Yes - money and sunshine... Fair enough but kind of guaranteed they'd only be this much beleted hypothetical debate, rather than any reality to any claim to greatness!!

Yes I saw him at the '77 ICF at White City (still to this day my favourite ever meeting!) and that was also the first time saw Bruce Penhall...! Bruce scored three points; Bast, one...: so I guess difficult to read too much into that either way... Penhall then came over here and became one of the world's greatest ever riders... Wonder why Mike Bast never considered trying League racing out over here too...

Please explain how

I take your point. In sport there's always been a difference of this type between a 'league' style competition and a knock out one. As a matter of interest, where do you stand on the play-offs used now to decide the Elite League? Ironically the major Speedway team competition which always used to be decided as a league championship is now decided in the form of a late season knock-out final. Whilst for the major individual championship it's been a change of the complete opposite!! Though tbf, the knock out competitions you refer to like the FA Cup and the old style World Speedway Championship are/were not just one day - to win the FA Cup you do have to win at least seven games and to get to a WF you had to get through a number of qualifiers...

Whilst agreeing completely with the sentiments about the potential for giant-killing, do have to point out that Wimbledon's victory in the 1988 FA Cup Final being flagged up as the media do all the time, as one of the biggest shocks in FA Cup Final history is something of a myth... Sure, Liverpool had a superb side then and they'd walked the League but Wimbledon were NOT the minnows they are now depicted as. The Crazy Gang finished in SEVENTH position in the top division (one place lower than they had the year before). A team 7th. in the top division beating the champions in the FA Cup Final was hardly astonishing - why in 1977, another year when Liverpool were denied the Double (actually denied the Treble!) in an FA Cup Final defeat, their conquerors Man United had finished sixth!! Never hear that one being described as one of the biggest shocks ever! And around that whole ten or so years period, Southampton and West Ham (like Sunderland before them) both won the Cup as Second Division teams...! Talking of the Happy Hammers, they could've lent their famous song to the Liverpool of that era , "I'm Forever Blowing Doubles"!!

All good ideas by the posters so far - better to have a variety of competition (well alright I know the same teams but different types of events!) than to all race each other multiple times in the League.. Sad though that down to eight... There COULD yet be TWO teams from the same area of Kent though!!

Keep up - the defending World Cup Football champs are no longer seeded. And even they were that's hardly the same as the top eight plus getting automatic qualification. Have no idea if what you say about the World Athletics championships is true - it sounds unlikely but I'll bow to your greater knowledge. Quite often the defending champs no longer compete in the T&F event they are the defending champs of though - through retirement or change of event. And I've said before the day we actually boast of having the same elitest and cash-led system as Formula 1 was a sad day!

I didn't say that some riders from these nations hadn't entered qualifying, I said there was no national qualification process... In the past (sorry for the 'P' word again!) the British Final was one stage on the way to further (international)World Championship qualifiers, now the winner or highest positioned rider not already in it, can look forward to what, er, a basically meaningless one-off 'wild card' position at Cardiff..

I disagree fundamentally that there's a qualification system suffient in scope in the CURRENT system for it to warrant being called a fair World Championship. A proper World Championship does not have guaranteed slots for an elite few. All need to qualify. You can go on for ever and a day about the old system, it's the CURRENT system which, if we care about the sport, needs to be looked at now. And it is utter fantasy to claim that riders from all over the world can easily qualify for an SGP series. Rather like those who defend the Royal Family by saying it's good for tourism, those who seek to defend the current SGP series by quoting the case of Sam Nicoljesen from 25 years ago are showing a bankrupcy in their arguments. Try DEFENDING the current system against the charge that it's based far too much on protecting those in it, rather than building a confident system where all with merit can achieve; and then those of us who are sceptical would have something to consider..