Parsloes 1928 nearly

An excellent posting - and an important distinction. Getting the SPORT back to that level must be everyone's aim. Whether possible to achieve is another matter...

Look, I started going to Speedway in 1972. That was already a decade after they'd last been an English rider on the WF rostrum (actually of course Peter Craven stood on the top step of the rostrum that year). They'd been no-one since then even remotely close to achieving that distinction. So when John Louis did, at Wembley in '75, trust me it WAS a very big deal. Looking back, considering Collins and Simmons were 1st. & 2nd. the next year and then Brits (English that is) occupied seven rostrum positions in the following seven finals, it may appear as if it wasn't a big thing, but trust me (or read the news reports at the time...) it WAS! So, within the CONTEXT of that era of English under-achievement (hence us 'adopting' Aussies and Kiwis for the 'Great Britain' team) it WAS a very noteworthy thing when Tiger achieved that third place. This is what I mean by "unprecedented at that time".. I accept you can take issue with the use of the phrase but its meaning (as I used it) is nonetheless clear; and in any case when first quoted back you decided to ditch the "at the time" part, so you clearly knew you wanted to ignore that caveat.. The point was someone (gawd knows who, I can't recall now!!) said Louis underachieved in WFs, my point was that's NOT the case. That alright with all of you in the 'thought police'...?

And for starters...: the one at Beaumont Park on May 12th...!!??

Not really. I know what I meant and it was, in truth, fairly obvious... The problem is, you lot hunt in packs being supercilious, disparaging and arrogant and in some cases (to sidney mainly) plain rude, so you WANT to mis-read things and pick at the scab of each argument. Frankly, IF you have the worthwhile arguments you claim, you'd just engage in debate like the rest of us - in a normal way, exchanging views and thoughts... But then I suppose that wouldn't, in truth, be the BSF if that happened...!!

Utter garbage. 'Unprecedented at the time' means exactly what I (who wrote it!) meant it to bloody mean!! At the time, for well over a decade, they'd been not a bloody sniff of an English rider finishing on the rostrum. Louis did it and it was unprecedented at that time. That is, for a Speedway 'generation', no-one else had done it... Lads, I've a degree in English and am a writer - don't try and argue semantics with me...

You are VERY annoying... You simply choose to ignore the words "at the time"... When Tiger finished on the rostrum in '75 he was the first Englishman to do since Peter Craven won the title in '62. Understand the point now..?! No-one minds debating (that's the point of the BSF after all..) but your attitude in arrogantly dissing those with different views and then deliberately misquoting really is extremely tiresome.. IF you have a point, try arguing it without twisting what others have posted...

Tiger had a very good WF record: 4th. in his first; 3rd. in his second: unprecedented at the time for an English rider..

Absolutely spot on.

In the huge majority of years far more than the top 8 remain in the SGP series - often the top 11 do.. And SGPs are ALL more like 'qualifying rounds' than they are WFs.. Riders are building points towards an overall total - there's no 'do or die' aspect to them at all: until there's a close finish in a final GP round like last year that is. Needless to say Harris' GB SGP win did NOT fall into that category! And I'm not saying it's easier to WIN the SGP series; but it most certainly IS a largely closed-shop as facts prove.

Er, the SGP series is without question easier to stay in than go out of..! A mathematical fact; and backed up, frankly, by how long Chris Harris was allowed (the operative word being 'allowed') to be in it... Morton's win in the the Inter-Continental Final is at least on a par with Harris' solitary GP win...

You are fairly insufferable... But to humour you, neither were ever going to be World Champions if that's what you mean... I'd actually put them around 'level' in terms of overall significance within their respective periods.. That okay with you..?!

Not really. The riders I listed all rode in the BL in 1975... Only Briggo was at the end of his career (though it was getting towards the end of 'Banger's as well)

A strange comment... People who have seen the riders from that decade and now (as I for one have done..) can indeed make a judgement on the respective quality surely.. The point I made earlier was that look at a 'top twenty' in the BL Div 1 from the '70s and you'll see some of the all-time greatest names in the sport; I don't in all honesty think history will return similar judgement on, say, last years 'top 20' of the EL. Here's an example: in 1975 riding in the BL there were these riders: Ole Olsen; Peter Collins; Ivan Mauger; Barry Briggs; Anders Michanek; Michael Lee; John Louis; Malcolm Simmons; Phil Crump; Tommy Jansson; Chris Morton; Scott Autrey; Zenon Plech; Billy Sanders; Terry Betts; Dave Jessup; Ray Wilson; Gordon Kennett; Bengt Jansson; Martin Ashby. Can anyone in all honesty name a top 20 from 2012 to go anywhere near matching this list..?! And let's not go there with a matching list of just the BRITISH riders!!!!

Er, the top two Poles at the moment don't ride in Britain either!!!!

I'm not talking about the size of their averages I'm talking about the quality of the riders.. You can't seriously believe that the top 20 today in any way matches the top 20 of the mid-70s..?!!

Hmm, have a look at the BL top twenty averages for the years 1972 to 1978 and seriously claim that the quality of riders was not better then than now? Sure a lot of you won't have seen many or possibly any of the riders who appear in those averages but these are complete legends of the sport... How many riders riding in last year's EL will go down in history in the same way..? The quality in that era was unquestionably higher than now. But every sport has a golden age and outside of that has to muddle through and Speedway still delivers a good product - but we DO need to more people through the gates...

Eastbourne did indeed stand-out as having exceptionally good 'second halves'. I remember my first visit to Arlington in 1973 had a second half event, The Speedway Mail Trophy with invited riders from other clubs... Also the next season in one second half, former Eagle and by then a Div I rider, Gordon Kennett came and rode match races. He had a dead heat with Paul Gachet and also rode against mult-World Finalist Mike Broadbank(s)! This criticism of looking back is a strange one. Are you saying that there's NOTHING from Speedway's now 85 year history in the UK worth re-visiting as an idea? Even though over most of those 85 years those previous ideas were bringing in far bigger crowds than the sport gets today..?!

Thanks. Though I hope not as was HOPING to fit in an afternoon meeting at Leicester before going onto Stoke to see the Kent Kings' first-ever away match in the evening.. Could be wrong but I'd have thought being the Under 15s etc. and a long meeting in terms of number of races, an afternoon start-time might be more likely...?

Sorry to 'interupt' the PL thread but as the Lions' website is 'silent' on the matter, does anyone on here know the start time for the meeting at Beaumont Park on Sunday 12th. May - the opening round of the GB Youth Champs??

Well you did question my age recently (52 btw...) - but I clearly AM hold enough to remember second halves in their pomp and you can't be, as I can assure you the second halves of the 1970s were NOTHING like you describe. Riders took them every bit as seriously as the main meeting. Stand-outs in my mind were the incredible race between the late Tommy Jansson and Gordon Kennett when Wimbledon visited White City for the opening meeting at Wood Lane in '76. Tommy won an absolute classic race. And the year before on the eve of a World Final which was to see Tiger beat Mauger in a rostrum place run off, when John Louis beat the great Kiwi, then of Exeter to bring the house down in a second half final at Foxhall Heath. The fact I remeber these great races and they were second half finals says it all!

Get ready for equally battling qualities down at Central Park then Malc! Not pre-judging anything, but if I were you i'd keep that famous pony-tail well protected under your trademark baseball cap, as a man with natty strides and a pair of big scissors could be lurking around the place!!!

Very perceptive and respectful summing up by Mr Craze - clearly a well-informed coroner. The words used, "Brave, courageous, extremely talented and experienced": Sums up a great man and a great rider and a great tragedy.

Why would 'satellite coverage' affect the live attendance..? Yes, the best venue would certainly be the OS in London (yards away ironically from the scene of the LAST venue to see a World Champ crowned in this country!)

And when the last time the UK staged a GP near enough the end of the series to have stood any chance of it being decisive? We've gone from being the country who ALWAYS used to see the World Champ crowned to one which will NEVER do!! I'd take my chances on a WF here every five years!

This comment simply makes not one tiny bit of sense... Why would a World Final held in the UK be held at Scunthorpe...? It would clearly be held at the Millenium Stadium and would without question attract a higher crowd than the SGP round held at that same venue currently gets.. Give me just ONE reason why your 'argument' holds any currency whatsoever!