Parsloes 1928 nearly

Many thanks for this ILS. This is exactly the sort of clarification I needed. The information that the track used at Droylsden in June 1927 for a dirt track meeting was in fact custom-built for the purpose raises an interesting point which – though I don’t doubt has been debated by the great & the good of our sport many times before – now perplexes me greatly.. As a citizen born & bred of the south-east of England and living now for many years a stone’s throw away from Ilford in Essex, I’ve been brought up and been more than happy to accept that it was the MCC from that town using the track at King’s Oak in High Beech who staged the first Speedway meeting in this country in Feb. 1928. But learning more about Messrs Dodd and Gill and their custom-built cinder track at Moorside, I can’t for the life of me now see many (any..??!!) reasons why that meeting eight months earlier and on the outskirts of Manchester wasn’t in fact the UK’s first dirt track motorcycling (later renamed Speedway) meeting..???

Thanks everyone so far... My emphasis is more on trotting tracks that were converted into Speedway tracks.. This was, for example, the way the majority of early American & Australian motorcycling dirt-tracks came into existence...

Writing a piece for a magazine on the role of Trotting tracks in Speedway: early and more recent… What I’m after, basically, is info. on what tracks used for Speedway/dirt track racing in all its forms, have been adapted/converted Trotting tracks over the years. I think we all know that two of the early tracks (in one case, arguably the earliest..??!!) in the Manchester area were trotting venues (Droylsden & Audenshaw). And, of course, the original (but not actually used..) venue picked by the Ilford MCC – before they settled on the King’s Oak was a trotting track in Becontree’s Parsloes Park.. Camberley staged dirt track racing in the late ‘20s and that was a trotting track; and so, of course, was the track that most historians have down as second behind High Beech is staging pukka Speedway: Greenford. Also from ‘Homes’, I’ve established that the track in Blackpool in 1928-31 was originally a trotting venue. I reckon there may be some other examples from the early days, though..? In more recent times, I’ve already opened another thread asking for info. about the meeting held at Amman Valley in 1970. At around that same time, also in Wales, there were some Long Track-style meetings held at Prestatyn on the Trotting track there. And the only other two I’ve a little info. on are Chasewater, a 800m trotting track used for Long Track in the mid-‘70s; and also in that same decade, Kendal. Anymore for anymore..?? Well let’s be honest..: it keeps up the interest on these cold winter evenings..!!!!

Well, yes, that's an odd comment from that writer isn't it, as I don't think dog racing was ever staged there.. It certainly can't have been the reason for the 'Ring' - as it was laid out when the stadium opened in 1895 and greyhound racing arrived on these shores only fractionally before Speedway in the late 1920s.. My guess would be it was intended (perhaps used..??) as some kind of trotting track for horses..??

And now I'm doing a speedyguy myself..: sorry!! The one thing that puzzles me is the "path racing".. Heard the expression many times over the years but exactly what was this..: or more to the point what were the paths..? Conquers up images of motorbikes teetering around narrow ornamental paths criss-crossing the (let's face it..) fairly hilly park area.. Or was it on (at least partially..) the more substantial road ways (later used for car racing) on the site..? Does anyone have a handle on what this (apparently very popular for a while..) path racing was actually like..??

Hmm, seems you didn't read my posting, speedyguy (understandable I know..!!! : that thing that looks like a Speedway track in the photo of the 1914 match and did become a Speedway track, is the shale 'Ring' put in when the stadium was first built. iris: it was my mistake not the authors I was otherwise quoting, about the FA Cup Finals. You're right they were initially at Kennington Oval. 1914 was the last one at the Palace. Surprisingly there was one in 1915 and that was the only time (apart from the 1970 replay) the FA Cup Final was played at Old Trafford. After the hostilities were over it was another London ground (and later also to be a Speedway track) where the FA Cup Final returned before moving to Wembley. Not surprised I didn’t get it, as it’s a place I try very firmly to blank from my memory..: Stamford Bridge!! A good quiz question lurking here..: try it on your mates. Since 1895 the FA Cup Final has only twice been played on a ground that’s not also at one time been a Speedway track..: name that ground..?? See above for the answer!!!!

Hmm, breaking a run of four speedyguy contributions in a row(!): Alex White & Bob Lilliman’s excellent ‘Football Grounds of London’ (Tempus 2005) is another help in sorting out the links between the former Speedway track, the once-proud football ground and the soon-to-be redundant Athletics stadium in CP Park. White & Lilliman tell us, the origin of the football ground and adjacent cycle track was to fill in the two large fountain basins part of the original ornamental grounds when the CP was moved to Sydenham Hill from Hyde Park. The FA wanted a large football ground in London (as they later did in the 1920s and I understand do again now..!!!) to stage their Cup Final in. This the new ground did from 1895 to the start of the Great War. There was an unusual feature of the ground called ‘The Ring’. I’m not clear exactly why this was put there (perhaps it was forward planning for a track or similar around the pitch) but from the description given and a good photo also in the book, this ring was inside the grandstands, pavilion and main terrace banking. From the photo one can see that the main spectator areas were indeed a long way from the pitch but there was provision for 3,000 or so to stand within the roped off Ring itself and so be pitch-side so-to-speak. 110,000 were there for the 1901 FA Cup Final: the last time a non-league side won the trophy..: the winners..? I’ll give you a clue..: the team lost 3-0 to Arsenal last weekend..: ha!! After World War One the FA Cup moved over to Kennington Oval and the Crystal Palace FC themselves to Herne Hill Cycling Stadium. Instead the football ground was used by both Corinthians and Casuals (two clubs who later merged and ironically were involved in a Speedway story last year when Wimbledon nearly negotiated a deal with them to use their much, much more modest current home in Tolworth..). The cataclysmic fire which destroyed the glass CP in 1936 meant the end of football at the ground and in the late ‘50s it was demolished and replaced by the so-called National Sports Centre – in reality, the Athletics stadium. In 1928, as others have posted, the ‘Ring’ had finally got itself a use as the Speedway track – used there for a few years before the promotion decamped to New Cross; and for a shortish period post-war too. Over 70,000 for a Speedway meeting there in 1930!! Very impressive – a bigger crowd than ever watched club football at the stadium!! As speedy implies there was motor-racing (cars) in the park in the ‘30s when the arena served as the paddock. So there’s no question that the site of the current Athletics Stadium (which IS exactly on the footprint of the former Football Ground) is the place where the Speedway track was located. Of course, post 2012 I’m anticipating that the stadium will become redundant again with Track & Field having a new national home within the Olympics site.. A chance for Speedway to return to CP Park..?? Hmm, one can dream..!!

Blimey..: that is an amazing site..: one of the best of its type I've ever seen. Thanks very much for pointing me in the way of this, Hot Shoe. Fascinating to read about the motorcycle racing including Speedway in Carmarthen Park. How come that venue's not in 'Homes'..??: though perhaps it is in the recently published second edition..?? And whisper it quietly (coz even all the way over in Oz there's a danger it'll get Bryn over excited!!??) but there seems some claim lurking amongst the info. on this site that perhaps Wales was actually the birthplace of what became Speedway in the UK.. The significance of the Amman valley meeting in June is growing by the minute...!!!!

The Christmas Cracker is - like last year - to be held at Scunthorpe Speedway. I have posted details of this meeting on both the Training and Grass Track etc. sections of the BSF previously; but for your easier info. (and an exciting update too) here are the latest two Press Releases from STUK containing all current details: --------------------------------- The call is out for riders keen to shake off the Christmas cobwebs with the announcement of a festive feast of Short Track racing to be held at Scunthorpe Speedway stadium on Saturday 30th. December. For the second year running, former Sheffield Tiger Pete Boast’s flattracking series is staging a special one-off meeting over the holiday period and once again the self-styled Christmas Cracker event will be attracting big names from the world of Speedway and other motorcycling disciplines. Boast who triumphed at Normanby Road in January is keen to encourage those who perhaps hadn’t the chance during their normal busy racing season to take part in the full Short Track UK series to give it a try, “Last year we saw the likes of Wayne Carter, Benji Compton and Andy Moore give it a go; as well as Superbikes legend Steve Plater and the Road Racing member of the Compton family, Dijon Compton. Already confirmed in this year's field is not only the 2006 STUK Champion, former Belle Vue Ace, Lee Complin but a motorcycling legend in the form of professional road racer from Heysham near Morecombe, John McGuinness. McGuinness secured a hat-trick of victories in this year's Isle of Man TT (where he's reigned supreme for ten years clocking up eleven TT wins in total) guiding his HM Plant Honda mounts to Superbike and Senior TT honours including setting the course record at an incredible 129.4mph! Boast wenbt on, “To make it easier for Speedway riders to take part in this year’s Cracker, competitors can use any Motocross bike with a Speedway rear tyre. We know there are a lot of lads out there who have motocross bikes which they use in their leisure time: it would be great to see people giving it a go in some healthy track competition during what’s traditionally the quietest time of the year!” The Cracker meeting gets underway with practice at 11.30am with practice and a 1 pm race time and included in a packed programme will be Quad Speedway: also very popular with the Normanby Road faithful. Any riders interested in taking part in the Short Track class are asked to contact Jackie Savage on 01507313829 before the entry closing date of 22nd December. Derek Barclay Press Officer - STUK NB. you're right about Amman Valley..: that's why I'm trying to track down (pardon the pun.!!) more info. about previous motorcycling activity there!!

Right, apologies for this being a particularly obscure request for help/info. - but trust me, there's a good reason for me asking and hopefully some positive news to emerge from this request..!! Amman Valley is a trotting track in South Wales and I'm after info. about what appears to have been the solitary occasion (so far.. ) that dirt track racing was held there. 'Homes of British Speedway' (entry under Ammanford) tells us that this was on 12 September 1970. Despite the very specific date, Bamford & Jarvis’ book (I like to think of it as the bible!!!) has little other details other than the fare on display was billed as “Track Racing”..: not grass track (coz after all it ain’t grass..!!) and not Speedway or Long Track but rather ambiguously, ‘Track Racing’…!!! The meeting was apparently put on by the “Carmarthen Club”..: what’s that a grass tracking club or a more general motorcycling club..?? Oh, and the 500cc solos class was won by a name I have to say I don’t recognise, Tig Perry. That’s all I can glean from ‘Homes’ So does anyone have further details of the meeting..? Was it grasstrack bikes & sidecars or was it more akin to Long Track…: like the handful of meetings held at around the same time in North Wales at a trotting circuit at Prestatyn..?? Bamford & Jarvis list the size of the Ammanford circuit for that 1970 meeting as 440 yards but I think that could be wrong as the trotting track’s closer to a half mile.. Any info. on any/all aspects of this one-off staging of dirt track racing at Amman Valley would be much appreciated….

Cheers Grachan - these websites have been very helpful. I wonder if we could make the viewing idea a reality..?? If so, why not increase the vfm and ask the Institute to lay on a double-bill including the other 1933 feature based around Speedway, 'Britannia Of Billingsgate'..?? Onbiously for London based folk like me the BFI is easy to reach but many (most...) others who may be interested in a viewing are from much further afield, so it would be a bigger commitment from them. What do people think..?? Oh, and thanx iris for mentioning Lea Bridge. As your 'local' track (weren't you born near there..??) can you confirm is that's right, Norbold..??

Can anyone shed any light on the 'B' movie made in the early '30s called 'Money for Speed' (and I understand also shown under the title, 'Daredevils of the Earth')? I believe it used archive (though obviously not old at the time..!!) film of the following riders in action: Frank Arthur, Jack Ormston, Colin Watson, Tom Farndon, Bluey Wilkinson, Jack Parker, Vic Huxley, Eric Langdon, Tiger Stevenson, Ron Johnson, Billy Lamont, Wal Phillips and Frank Varey. Phew!! What I'd like to know most is does anyone know what track this filming was made at.. I'm guessing Wembley or New Cross..?? And the $64,000 question..: is the film available anywhere..?? I understand a French-dubbed version (bizarrely) has been unearthed..??

The Crayford track (you KNEW I was going to reply on this one...!!!) was in the London Borough of Bexley. Dagenham (though not at the time, a London Borough..) lies within the LB of Barking & Dagenham..: and LBBD is nearer to the city, of course, than the next borough eastwards which is Havering..: Romford is in Havering. When they were running as teams in the British League Division Two both Romford and Crayford were in London Boroughs..: Dagenham's is perhaps more of a moot point but if you count Crayford and Romford, you're foreced to do likewise with Dagenham..!! Don't think Catford ever had a team though. Clapton/Lea Bridge, on the other hand certainly did. Has anyone mentioned Walthamstow (LB Waltham Forest)..??

Chatting to my "better looking younger brother"(!!??) [ for his part, ever modest he tries to pass himself off as my grandfather!!!!!!), George Barclay the other day, the subject of motorcycle racing in our home borough of Barking & Dagenham came up.. I'm keen to try and arrange something 'commemorative' (that's if you can properly commemorate something which, er, didn't end up actually happening..!!??) around the planned first ever staging of dirt track racing back in 1927 at Dagenham's Parsloes Park.. George though recalled from, he thought, the late 1940s..(?) a grasstrack meeting he attended as a youngster in another of the borough’s big 'set-piece' parks: Mayesbrook Park. George recalled one rider's name..: he believed he may also have ridden Speedway: Jack Ladd..?? Does anyone have any details of these grass track meeting(s) in Mayesbrook Park..: the park is on the ‘border’ of Barking with Dagenham near Upney tube station; and only a stone's throw (and believe me they do throw stones in that direction nowadays!!) of the former Dagenham Speedway track on Ripple Rd. Derek

Ah ha!!!!!! Now my little brain never even considered that possibilty!! Happy holiday!!!! D. PS any Flat Track on the programme..???!!!!!

An afternoon meeting midweek..?? Is that usual in Germany, iris..: seems a bit strange..??!!

Hmm, good point, iris!!!! There is Short Track as part of that motor sports programme at the Stade de France I believe, so who knows..??! And the quote is "fastest growing motor sport in EUROPE". You did know that Hyperbole is my middle name..??!!! Ron: There were three USA riders on the World Final rostrum in 1937; and I think that you'll find that there's been several examples of two riders from the same English club in a WC 1,2,3. But good to see far more positive vibes this time about a return of Speedway to Wembley..: don't forget that post-2012 they'll be ANOTHER huge (and under-used) stadium in the capital too..: and it's going to be (virtually) on the site of the old 'Ackney Wick track..!!

And Cardiff does..??!! I've lost count of the number of times there's been a thread on this subject and everyone comes along and rubbishes the idea of Speedway returning to Wembley. The boost to the sport of Speedway being staged at Wembley would be immeasurable. To turn down such an opportunity is to set the clock ticking for the countdown of the end of the sport in this country. I feel sorry for those starting up Speedway in Birmingham (as the country's Second City) if they're to receive the same sort of hugely negative response there always is when Speedway in London is attempted. Hackney 1996, Wimbledon 2002-'05: just nothing but criticism and zero support from the Speedway world and authorities. London CAN sustain Speedway (and for the future of the sport it MUST); but it won't happen if the Speedway world itself is so determined to ensure all attempts are sabotaged..

Isn't this one of the MOST extraordinary things..?? Why did they go to such elaborate efforts to stage Speedway in a venue that sadly never really staged it when they could so much more easily have used a track in an existing stadium??! But wouldn't it have been great (and unique) to have been at dear old Catford dog track as crowd extra when they filmed it..?? I wonder, is there anyone out there in BSF land who was..???!!!

I believe so. The meeting has a 3pm start time so an early start required for long distance travellers!

Well, what'd I say about norbold (to fill in some personal details..) is that he is a rather nervous car passenger...!!

Sadly the dog track in Romford could NEVER get Planning Permission for motor sports . Even if a track could be fitted in (it would have to be tiny..) the extremely residential location of the stadium (it's, uniquely, invisible from the neighbouring roads being literally at the back of people's gardens..!!) means they'd never have been even a glimmer of a chance of staging Speedway there... A few sites up on the A12 near Marks Gate/Harold Wood might, though, be suitable for a return of the Bombers..: but when push comes to shove might as well remember that Arena Essex is in a Romford post-code area so another track not really viable....

Never heard anymore on this. Do you know any details of this alleged link between Barking Park and the Ilford MCC's efforts to find an initial venue back in 1927, Norbold..??

Yes - I knew it was quite a lot later than '79 as I moved to the area in 1982 and it was open then. And of course the Greyhound Derby transferred there (for just one year as it turned out..) after White City's demise. Sobering to think that White City & Harringay were disposed of in such rapid succession. Who's to say this sort of culling by the GRA isn't about to happen again. Catford gone; Plough Lane teetering on the brink..: what's the future for Oxford & Belle Vue, I wonder..??!! And norbold..: was it Harringay then in 'TLGF'..??

Don't think Harringay closed as early as 1979 did it..?? I thought that perhaps the venue shown in the film was Walthamstow..??!!