False dawn

There are always lies, damn lies and statistics. Points scored and races won from each gate can only indicate a potential advantage. For example, when I look at a race and try to predict which of two riders will win, the gate stats can help. Of course there is nothing to say that one of the other two riders actually win as they do, quite often. Who'd be a pundit eh?

Jason Doyle £50 less Emil Sayfutdinov £50 more

You are quite right, of course. It can only be an indication of gate advantage. But I'd argue that if 9 races out of 15 were won by the rider in say gate 1, then this is a strong indication that it's a good pick given that you'd expect only a quarter of the races to be won from each gate if all other factors were equal (which, as you rightly say, they are not). But if I was a team manager (aren't we all?) and gates 1 and 3 had won 4 heats and 2 and 4, 10 heats, would I pick 1 and 3 in heat 15? You'd be surprised at the choices, given the stats, sometimes. Incidentally, the other thing that my analysis shows is that 1 and 3 are not the advantage you'd think. My conclusion from that is that if I won the toss, I would always elect to choose gates in heat 15. That way I would have the knowledge gained from the previous 14 heats rather than guessing before the meeting has started and handing the advantage to the opposition when it might really make a difference.

Somebody said something about choosing gates positions in all this banter..... I have for several seasons run a spreadsheet "programme" which amongst other things keeps track of the the number of races won from each gate and the number of points scored from each gate. Ok so it's a bit neardy but it makes for interesting reading quite often and shows it's not always the same gates that have the advantage at the same track. It can vary (a lot) from meeting to meeting and indicates to me, at least, that some sensible hand raking at the start line is needed. Anyway in the old days when we had tactical substitutions, the losing team also had choice of gates until the deficit was reduced, when the normal alternation of gate positions was resumed. Surely this is a small change in the regulations that could help to avoid the more one sided meetings we sometimes see but without the fans feeling it was mickey mouse. If tracks didn't like the advantage gained, sort out the start line. Give all 4 riders an even break, otherwise get eaten alive by the opposing teams picking the best gates. We could even go back to letting teams choose which rider starts from which of their two allocated gates. Oh, I know they stopped this because some top riders were always choosing the best gate to the detriment of their junior partner. But surely we have to give teams and team managers some freedom if they are to maximise their opportunities?

I think you spell Poole with an "e"

Well I agree with that. At least at that point we know for certain who is racing and which gate (and a half) they are starting in. A real sense of anticipation. Contrast this with no apparent action, no update from the announcer, no idea when the unknown racers are going to appear. I was little taken aback by the earlier suggestion that we should scrap heat 15. But you know, in the old days under say the old 13 heat formula, there was no delay getting on with the final heat. Sure there was shuffling at the start. Riders turning away and playing mind games. But the crowd got involved. Shouting at their opponents. Geeing on their own heros etc. Maybe we should all buy megaphones and shout at the pit area, "Why are we waiting".

So to sum up. The delay before heat 15 is because.... the track needs to be rebuilt the team managers need a long time to work out what the rest of us knew 20 minutes ago the best tyre has to be found and fitted to the nominated riders machines we're all wetting ourselves with anticipation So why is this delay so universally disliked?

I hardly like to ask, but how did this thread end up talking about the Hulk? Hang on, I think that was my fault

And here's me thinking I was suitably anonymous

Is this a double header? :-)

How about..... Get the team managers to tell the ref their fixed selections and gates. Then they could be interviewed telling us their logic. With no opportunity for change, the opposing side could not change their minds. Maybe then we could understand some of the inexplicable choices we see on an all to frequent basis.

Maybe when I went to Leicester for the Swindon match on 1st April (no I'm not joking) I saw something no one else has mentioned. Towards the end of the meeting, a few home riders were trying a very tight line into bend 1 not just in lap 1. It looked a bad line from I was standing, going down the straight very tight and turning extremely sharply into the corner. But what do I know? It proved quick and caught the leading rider totally by surprise. I think there is potential.

I think I said that Skidder1. My point being that guests don't invalidate a team under the current rules. Coventry with a couple of guests is still Coventry not a select side. We're beating ourselves up to keep the Coventry name alive. I know we're pushing water uphill but we're trying. Any sense that others may see this as futile or less than valid are welcome to their opinion. Just don't voice it in my company. You won't like it if you make me angry (my real name is Bill Bixby).

Oh, and before I go to bed, where do you, SS, come off calling our side a select? This was the team we signed to ride this year before all the rubbish with our stadium kicked off. If you are going to say that not all the riders pass my definition and were guests by any other name, then about half the teams every week should carry the Select tag. We are the Coventry Bees and we'll take on anyone. Don't demean our team. It is just as valid as any team drawn together under a common banner, be it domestic or international. And our banner is as valid as any you can name.

Funny. I never thought that when I raced there as a sidecar passenger. Always seemed plenty of room for overtaking.

That is a short term statement (with respect). You're right, as things stand. Brits have no more right to a team place than anyone else. But is this how we want it to be? Do we want to be nowhere on the World stage 10 years from now? Or now if you're honest. Well I was reminded of some history yesterday. Back in the 70's Ipswich were renowned for having a British side. Next to no foreigners. And why? Well they invested in their youth. There was a strong link with the Kent Motorcycle Club and in turn the grasstrack scene. We have lost our place in the European speedway hierarchy and we can no longer expect the best to come here just because. We have to go back to grass roots and build from within. There are some good signs with the British youth championships but it's not enough. If we continue to (try and) import solutions to our junior team slots we will 1) never be a world force (oh I know we got a 2nd in the WTC but come on) and 2) never get our operating costs under control (and that's the start of a lingering death).

Well bloody ages, is the answer. And if last night is anything to go by, the top scorer doesn't get a look in. Bizarre!

I find the delay before heat 15 in most meetings I've attended of late, very annoying. Yes the team managers have to choose their riders (we've done that 10 minutes earlier) and choose the gates (my excel spreadsheet would tell them that a few heats earlier). So is it time to set a maximum wait? I don't find it exciting or the sense of anticipation increased by the wait. Just get on with it please.

Good to see no Poole fans (one in particular) care to comment on this light hearted comment. It was good to see, despite getting stuffed, that we put NK back in his box last night. He scored some good points, but not the double figures the rest of us have come to despise (from reserve, I hasten to add).

Maybe KK could swap places with Nicolai. Seems fair!

I thought there was reasonable contingent from Coventry. Vocal at least. It is a bit disingenuous to suggest that loads of people could go to a mid week meeting 3 hours away with work and families to consider. I was one of the lucky ones. And I was given a lift. A big thank you to those concerned. I was pleased to be there and enjoyed some good racing.

Division 1 matches all on one night of the week, Division 2 matches on another. Doubling up not a problem.

I sort of go along with you Gustix if only it were so straightforward. For some years, pure sidecar speedway has not been held in the UK. Instead there has been a series of Track Racing championships. Meaning that, with some modification, grasstrack sidecar outfits have competed alongside sidecar speedway machines in the same meetings. Sure these have, for the most part, but not exclusively, been held on speedway circuits. But you see the confusion.And that's just the 1000's. The 500's race on grass, shale and sand tracks. There was even one at Telford one year on the ice! Sorry to be picky but us pedants rule in the final analysis

I have no real issue with Chris Harris. I wish him well for the future

He's too onery for that.