False dawn

One of that Coventry team that would have been wooden spoonists. Along with Danny King (12+2) and Josh Bates (9).

Let's not make too much of this. Although I'm tempted since I sort of predicted it (I can't tell you how good that feels). Belle Vue will come back stronger (want to argue with my prediction?) you just watch. Getting beaten by the leagues whipping boys, who would have thought? (Guess who?) I might dine out on this for a while. If, you know who, wins the World Champs, you'll never hear the last of it.

I told yer......

All that is true. But play the percentages. Don't start 30 heats of racing with 6 riders, no number 8 and no chance of a late stand in. And for goodness sake, don't ride against the same club twice on the same night. That's just plain daft.

Ah but. As one poster has already pointed out, if you don't have the daft situation whereby you're riding against the same club twice, you already have 7 potential guests present for the second meeting.

Well it would certainly avoid that embarrassing conversation at the promotion relegation meeting on TV........ "So tell me Kelvin. Does that mean that Leicester are now relegated and Glasgow promoted?" "That's a good question......"

Even more interesting that it was 31-29 after 10 heats. Then the final 5 heats were all 5-1's. Rare indeed. Two to Leicester followed by 3 to BV. Leicester only had 5 race winners and 3 heat advantages and still came away with a league point. It's tempting to think they could go one better and pull off a win tonight. Heats 13 and 15 are critical.

The second match should never have been scheduled. As I said before this meeting RR wasn't a risky option. If a guest option wasn't available then why not trade the RR with the opposition and each promote a junior? We used to in days gone by and at least you have a hope of finishing the two meetings with a full side. RR is tough on riders and machinery in one meeting. Frankly, you're asking for trouble in a double header.

Sadly, that's where the name came from. But it was in reference to the Bees.

Brave words. BV are strong at home and it would take a supreme effort. If Josh Bates has a stormer, Danny gets the bit between his teeth, I still can't see it. But stranger things have happened. I suppose Leicester is a good each way bet.

Why is that when I read the Leicester team sheet I think, "That's not a half bad side" and when the results come through they get beaten, usually quite easily? They are going to pull off a massive shock one of these days if they ride to their true potential.

It seems to me that history tells us that clubs go up and down by choice. It has little to do with where they finish in the league. An end of year meeting to decide whether this happens is meaningless. However, if you want to hold such meetings between clubs considering going one way or the other, why not allow them to challenge a club of their choice in the other league and have a two leg inter league challenge? So Glasgow could challenge Leicester if they are serious about going up next year. Or King's Lynn could challenge the Isle of Wight

Why not make both legs a double header between the two teams? Two meetings between the same clubs on the same night..... I think someone tried this.

That is what I was implying. Actually a footnote in the electronic programme is all that's needed along the lines of "A and B dead heated in heat 7 so A's score and his team score are reduced by half a point and vice versa for B". Assuming the half point doesn't alter the outcome or league points and so on, this should suffice. Of course some nerd will point out that it may alter the bonus points scored. Yes it is possible to score half a bonus point. And, of course, if we ignore the half points in the official stats, the teams' points differences aren't quite right in the league tables which could (very unlikely) alter their league position. And then we get into rider averages. Ignoring a half point could just alter a riders' eligibility for a team in a redeclaration. And the real purists will squirm if we suggest that the historic records are not absolutely correct. The problems go on and on. Maybe the answer is to arrange the same two riders to meet again in the same meeting and magically have another dead heat. Then the half points would cancel out. TBH half points have always been a bit of a drag. We remember Bryan Seery, don't we, complaining in the Star when there was a dead heat because it messed up his stats for the rest of the season. Maybe we should adopt the FIM rule and declare dead heats are a no, no and the ref has to declare a winner. Actually, Is this still an FIM rule or did I dream that dead heats are now allowed in the GPs etc.? I hope not because I have a whole set of spreadsheets that will need altering to accommodate half points And finally...... Who believes in Sod's Law? If it can happen, it will. I've been around the sport nearly 50 years and I'm fairly sure it hasn't happened in that time.... A three way dead heat. On the face of it, it isn't that bad. 3 riders tie for 1st place, each get 2 points. 3 riders tie for second place, each get 1 point. But what about the bonus points?

They could, of course, upgrade to Windows Pen and Paper or speak to me

Mine is

4 guests and rider replacement? We've plumbed new depths.

Am I the only one (regardless of what happened last night) who thinks that 2 meetings between the same 2 clubs on the same night is fundamentally wrong? Silly, at best. You might as well have one meeting and double the result. Surely the appeal of racing the same club twice at home on different nights (different halves of the season even) is that of anticipation. "They beat us last time, but we've signed a new heat leader or reserve (or both at the same time if you're Rye) since". "Our no.1 was carrying an injury last time, this time we're all fit". The chances of 14 riders remaining 100% fit and having 100% reliable machinery over 2 consequetive meetings is small. Did I say 14? Of course, when you start with less, the odds are already against you. And in case you think hindsight is a wonderful thing, I did post about the dangers of using RR yesterday. This is fixture planning (planning?) at it's worst. Double headers are of dubious value. To the club, to the riders and last of all (as always) the fans.

Returning to an earlier tangential splinter in this thread. Did Josh Auty set a new record tonight, albeit in unusual circumstances? He scored 13 out of his team's total of 21 (or 11 out of 19 if we ignore the TR double). 62% (or 58%). Maybe not one to shout about eh?

And what about Nicki? You've all written him off. But should he get fit and come back fighting, does he deserve a wildcard? Aren't you glad you're not the one dishing out these discretionary places in next year's World Championship?

I'm curious. Wolves running rider replacement looks risky over 30 heats to me. A poor run by a couple of riders, worse still an injury and it could be disastrous.

So that will have to be the away leg then. Unless the Swindon riders are doubling up as greyhounds as well.

A sign of things to come? 2018 SGP ?

You mustn't be so shy. Tell us what you really think.

Your's was a gentle challenge to tell us when another rider has done this. I'll go further. This might be unique. Bloody good, anyway.