Jeff.

But at this moment in time the urgent need to bend is with the British Elite League, not with BSI. British promoters have for many years attempted to combat the problem of falling crowds by simply putting up admission for the remainder, rather than look at the reasons fans were deserting in the first place, ultimately, when the threshold of value for money is exeeded by more and more fans there will be no way out for the sport in this country. We are perilously close to, if not actually past that point now. If British Promoters got their house in order and worked in harmony with the GP, initially by adopting Mondays & Thursdays as race days, actually promote the sport, use the 3 hours of free prime time advertising they get every other Saturday, set admission at a level where fans would attend, implement a points limit that allowed for year on year strengthening rather than continual weakening, maybe the fans would come back. As you say in the long term both the GP and Elite League probably depend on each other for survival

It isn't a myth, have a look at the official attendances. I have most of them and will dig them out for you tonight. Depends what you call poorly attended, like I say some finals had crowds of 50,000 ish, not necessarilly poor but by no means a sell out as you stated. Don't think having the finals on a Thursday could have helped, Saturdays only came in in the late fifties/early sixties, cant remember the exact year

I saw over 10 world finals from the sixties to the nineties and as occassions enjoyed them all, but the GP is better, as you say in my opinion. Bit rich, you calling me for personal insults, maybe have a read through your own posts, anyway it was you who suggested that I think you are a fool, I only confirmed that belief for you.

World Finals at Wembley were only sell outs on 3 occassions, (perhaps you should go on the facts rather than the spin) the early post war finals and the golden jubilee final in 1978. Some Fifties finals attracted little over 50,000 and even the much talked about 92,000 in 1981 was actually 72,000. This in days when speedway was supposedly the second most popular spectator sport. As for your last line, yes I certainly do think you are a fool

In the end it had the disadvantage that no one wanted to waste one night to see it, Still 40,000 at Cardiff in the days of most tracks struggling to attract 1000, if the GP was going in speedways halcyon days Cardiff would have been sold out 10 times over

As an aside I had to laugh today when I read that Exeters new track looks dodgy, shame for the 5 or 6 hundred fans that would have attended. Still it puts off the inevitable "save our speedway" campaign that will no doubt happen in a couple of years time when the track is failing as most are. I presume you have no problem with that opinion or is the right to gloat at misfortune reserved for you and your anti GP cronies, who all incidentally seem never to miss a GP despite their so called dislike of them.

Quite agree in the old system 9th would have more wins, I agree with you that the standard is now much higher that race wins are hard to come by, thats because you have the best 16 riders in each GP without the deadwood

No but he hankers for a return to the old days were half the field were just making numbers up. Parsloes is a complete fool who has taken to ridiculous posts in his anti GP stance, unfortunately they only serve to make him look like the fool he is

Which were? A good debut in 1976, but for a fall would have had double figures, not much different in 1977, very poor at Wembley 81 and then the win in 83, poor again in 84 & 85. Plenty of riders won big meetings over the years, it has no relevance to their worthiness of being world champion The obviously not so clued up Journo really needs to do his homework if he classes Muller as a great speedway rider.

Well firstly I don't read the Star so I have no idea what was said and secondly what is my "Egon Muller Theory" Lets get this straight, I agree Muller was the most worthy winner on the day, his day. All the elements combined to make it virtually impossible for Muller to lose. But I dont agree that Egon was in reality among the best speedway riders of that time, he merely exposed the flaw in the old system. Plenty of other riders have had luck on their side to win World Finals, Mauger was extremely lucky to win in 1977, but he was at the time one of the best speedway riders in the world and would have been in with a chance wherever the final was raced. Quite simply Muller would not have won on any other speedway track, in fact Norden was more of a long track. The same could be said for Szcackiel in 1973. As for Havvy in 1992, a poor field combined with lousy weather and a disjointed meeting simply threw up an unlikely winner although it could have been worse if Gert Handberg had won as could so easily have happened

More pointless crap

It was the overseas final not the ICF, it was no different to what regulary went on, in a lot of cases with money changing hands, Penhall's mistake was, as you say, making it totally blatant

Are you totally stupid or is it just an act, it is the absolute best and fairest way of deciding the four super prix finalists, for christs sake if you have nothing remotely intelligent to say simply say nothing.

That seems to be your stock answer, are you devoid of the intelligence to construct a reasoned post of your own, still that puts you in good company, Parsloes whatever he calls himself, colin cooke etc.

No the rules, decided before the season were that in the event of an already qualified rider gaining a second qualification then that place would go to the highest ranked GP rider not currently with a super prix place. I was highlighting the fact that you thought Andersen was more worthy with second place last night than would have been the second place rider in PARKEN. both were second to Gollob in a super prix final.

Probably because that was the rules, set in place before the season started, why on earth would it be Hans Andersen anyway, why not the second place finisher in PARKEN, Gollobs other win. It may not be right in your opinion, but like most of your opinions they are worth jack s@/t, mostly made up on the hoof and as changeable as the weather

Oh I dont know, there are plenty of ways things could get worse. You could have a GP end up being decided by a run off where the competitors make a private arrangement to race for real no further than the first turn, only for one of them to change his mind halfway through and race by his unsuspecting opponent and make himself world champion. Or you could have a GP raced in Britains premier stadium reduced to a farce by track conditions being so bad, with no help from the weather, that a group of supporters grab a hose and ruin it even further. Or you could find a totally unsuitable venue for a GP, in the back of beyond that is more akin to a long track and stick a GP on there, a venue with barely any parking, only one entrance and next to no seating. Or you could concoct a qualifying system that ensured the best 16 could not possibly be there but at the same time hand places to 5 dodgy conference/premier league standard East Europeans. Oh yes there are plenty of ways things could get worse, although most have been done before

Yes it did, it also got 35,000 only 5 years earlier, Wembley had 72,000 only 4 years before that. Where would a Bradford World Final be today if that trend continued. Dont get me wrong, I saw many World Finals from the sixties onwards along with dozens of qualifying rounds and enjoyed nearly all of them, it is simply that I think the GP is better, both in spectacle and as a means of finding a champion

Yes exactly like the German GP, OK this time it went pear shaped but again who at the FIM in the early nineties would have had the foresight to see a Speedway GP in Europes premier sporting venue. It would have been in Pocking or Norden or Abensberg

The fact is, prior to BSI doing it you would have said the same things of the Millenium, Parken etc. Some organisations (the FIM, and you) prefer to look for reasons things cant be done, others (BSI and me) prefer to look at reasons things can be done, and make them happen.

You say BSI have done nothing with the sport then say if the World Final was in somewhere like the millenium stadium it could have prospered. Well that is exactly whjat BSI did do, and OK the Millenium wasn't in existence then but Hampden was, Wembley was Twickenham was along with countless other high profile venues, but as part of their vision for the event the FIM chose to take the final to the sporting icons of Odsal, Norden, Pocking.

Does your employer impose such conditions as to what you do when not working for them, your free time as it were. Competing in the World Championship has always been an expensive pursuit for all but the very few but riders still did compete. Incidentally without the GP that you are so against, and without BSI/IMG, where do you think the World Final would be today. Paqcking Wembley out like some of the clowns on here seem to think, or dead in the water with fans giving the largely meaningless qualifiers a miss (imagine the standard of a British Quarter Final today, it would consist of conference league riders) and the final itself largely ignored by the fans and TV.

The fact remains you do need to be reasonable in your timescale for refund. There will be an incredible amount to sort out between the ticket agency and IMG before refunds can happen. Granted it is not very helpful to you but it is the truth all the same.

Do you notice a pattern of the succesfull speedway nations being the ones who are not fighting the GP system and the countries where speedway is going down the pan being the ones trying to drag the sport back 40 years to a system of proven failure

No the sympton of a company swamped with similar e mail, maybe just buying time to get the refund process in place