ouch

Interestingly, the volunteer application form states main race meetings will be Friday or Saturday with practice on Sunday.

Joe Screen.

Did you mean next next week?

Maybe and I'm going a left field here, he raced on regardless of the rule book in the hope of getting away with it. Stranger things have happened.

It certainly is open to debate. I've referenced Kennett and his silencer issues. His defence was that a member of his mechanic team was the cause and this individual then "fell on his sword". It's not without it's merits that Kennett wouldn't have known about the mechanical side of things. One thing riders will be aware of is the rules pertaining to their safety kit. Whilst mechanics don't need to bother about it, it's one thing that the riders will defiantly look after. Newman got to the start and began to have trouble with his faulty goggles. He should have returned to the pits but knew this would have seen him excluded under 2 minutes and incur the disadvantage of a 15m start. Knowing the rules about his safety kit, he decided to ride anyway with an llegal set up safety wise. The lads grown up round Poole and will have seen that cheating gains you an advantage so he consciously took the decision to ride on illegally. He knew he didn't have goggles on and he knew that the rules state that to participate in the race he needed goggles on. It was no accident but a case of not so much gaining an advantage but by disregarding the rule book he dodged a disadvantage.

Must admit I'm taken aback by the definition some have of cheating. I've not looked it up as I didn't need to as early on in like I thought I had a handle on it by watching Wacky Races, Herbie etc. The baddies cheated but ultimately never gained an advantage, Dick Dastardly being a repeat offender. Never once at the end did I think, their not cheats just misunderstood. The innocents of youth. I do though I find it odd that many could watch this kind of thing and be rooting for the baddies. They say everyday is a learning day. I'm off to catch a pigeon.

So your intention is to cheat but if you then fail to gain an advantage it is no longer cheating? Whilst I'm at it if a tree falls in the woods whilst nobody is about, does it make a noise? By using the phrase more often than not would you therefore admit breaking the rules can also be carried out intentionally?

Try being from Manchester! The sporting capital of Europe if not the World.

Just putting to one side the start line/15m aspect I'll ask again is it ok to break the rules/cheat in sport if an advantage has not been achieved?

They could have informed Lambert his deflector was missing/faulty and he could have returned to the pits to rectify the problem, at the same time incurring a 2 minute disqualification. Unfortunately it got missed by the officials until after the race finished and his points were subsequently removed. You can substitute Lambert and deflector with Newman and goggles in the above as both fit the scenario.

The problem is Newman didn't suck it up and start 15m back. He instead choose to ride with illegal kit. One of the last riders to do that was Kennett with his silencer or Lambert with his dirt deflector and both had their race points deducted.

Or just sweep it under the carpet. Coincidently the same carpet the fans leaving the sport wipe their feet on on the way out.

Starting from the gate offers more of an advantage than starting 15m back. In my opinion.

Sorry mate.

Those are much improved figures on what has gone before and very heartening to read. Where was the information from as I'd like to have a look. Previous years can be seen hear. http://www.methanolpress.com/elite-league-sky-sports-speedway-viewing-figures-up-22-4-in-2014-but-still-second-worst-ever/ and http://www.methanolpress.com/tag/sky-sports-speedway-viewing-figures/

If a cheat doesn't change a result, is it ok?

I think it will be 10 to 15 years after he's gone before we will fully appreciate Fords "achievements"..

So we should set out to cheat but hope that it's missed? Things do get missed but processes are in place to rectify such glaring errors. That's why during my time in the sport well over 100 results have been amended following an investigating into rule breaking.

Or we could just compete as per the rule book. You know, I never thought I'd be offering that as a option to someone on a sporting forum, I just thought it was a given. Funny old world.

More hoped for déjà vu, in 1969, the year before we went on to dominate the BL and win three on the trot we were pipped for the title by Poole. Nothing dodgy back then though. I just want to confirm this as I'd not considered it before reading this thead. It is ok to cheat in sport if you don't get found out? It is ok to cheat in sport if there is no perceived advantage?

Sorry, no I'm comparing the advantages of starting from the gate as opposed to starting 15m back after failing the 2 minutes due to faulty/illegal set up.

It certainly did, he scored a fifteen point maximum and loaned his machine to another rider who also won. I improved his scoring potential similar to Newman in heat 12 with his illegal set up.

There is zero chance of The Aces getting anywhere with this no matter how wrong it is. For any newbies we where once kicked out of a cup final as points we gained for RR were deducted because we didn't have the missing riders name .................. printed in the programme! No I'm not kidding.

I've only glanced through this but two things to note is that more fans would turn up to a title decide whether is a play off or normal league match. I thing that's happened over the last few years is riders, managers and fans have referred to meetings as being unimportant due to the placing they have all but secured in the "table". This has filtered through to the terraces and hit numbers attending. Before the play off we had perennial no hopers who managed to maintain crowds due to wanting to finish as high up the table as possable or win bragging rights over their main rivals. There never seemed to be unimportant fixtures. Knowing what we know now there should have been an imbargo on anybody within the sport describing fixtures in such a way as it a marketing disaster. Like wise the phase "I'm just testing engines tonight". It's a genie we can't now put back in its bottle.

I'd be interested to see how the situation during heat 12 of the first leg, pans out as a precedent has been set for illegal kit. Lakeside v Coventry 06/08/2011 Eddie Kennett reported as having suspect racing kit (namely silencer) at heat 7. Kennett had already taken and won two rides in heats 4 & 6 with the results of these heats being declared but (much) later overturned. Though many many results have been altered when rules have not been adhered to even though they had been declared, the above precedent more closely matches the Newman/goggles situation as it concerns the riders kit rather than a problem with team selection. I think the main problems we face with this situation is it's a big mess as it happened in the play off final, it involves Poole who receive and inordinate amount of "goodwill" from the authorities and it involves Belle Vue who rarely if even come out of this kind of thing with a favourable result.