ouch

If a cheat doesn't change a result, is it ok?

I think it will be 10 to 15 years after he's gone before we will fully appreciate Fords "achievements"..

So we should set out to cheat but hope that it's missed? Things do get missed but processes are in place to rectify such glaring errors. That's why during my time in the sport well over 100 results have been amended following an investigating into rule breaking.

Or we could just compete as per the rule book. You know, I never thought I'd be offering that as a option to someone on a sporting forum, I just thought it was a given. Funny old world.

More hoped for déjà vu, in 1969, the year before we went on to dominate the BL and win three on the trot we were pipped for the title by Poole. Nothing dodgy back then though. I just want to confirm this as I'd not considered it before reading this thead. It is ok to cheat in sport if you don't get found out? It is ok to cheat in sport if there is no perceived advantage?

Sorry, no I'm comparing the advantages of starting from the gate as opposed to starting 15m back after failing the 2 minutes due to faulty/illegal set up.

It certainly did, he scored a fifteen point maximum and loaned his machine to another rider who also won. I improved his scoring potential similar to Newman in heat 12 with his illegal set up.

There is zero chance of The Aces getting anywhere with this no matter how wrong it is. For any newbies we where once kicked out of a cup final as points we gained for RR were deducted because we didn't have the missing riders name .................. printed in the programme! No I'm not kidding.

I've only glanced through this but two things to note is that more fans would turn up to a title decide whether is a play off or normal league match. I thing that's happened over the last few years is riders, managers and fans have referred to meetings as being unimportant due to the placing they have all but secured in the "table". This has filtered through to the terraces and hit numbers attending. Before the play off we had perennial no hopers who managed to maintain crowds due to wanting to finish as high up the table as possable or win bragging rights over their main rivals. There never seemed to be unimportant fixtures. Knowing what we know now there should have been an imbargo on anybody within the sport describing fixtures in such a way as it a marketing disaster. Like wise the phase "I'm just testing engines tonight". It's a genie we can't now put back in its bottle.

I'd be interested to see how the situation during heat 12 of the first leg, pans out as a precedent has been set for illegal kit. Lakeside v Coventry 06/08/2011 Eddie Kennett reported as having suspect racing kit (namely silencer) at heat 7. Kennett had already taken and won two rides in heats 4 & 6 with the results of these heats being declared but (much) later overturned. Though many many results have been altered when rules have not been adhered to even though they had been declared, the above precedent more closely matches the Newman/goggles situation as it concerns the riders kit rather than a problem with team selection. I think the main problems we face with this situation is it's a big mess as it happened in the play off final, it involves Poole who receive and inordinate amount of "goodwill" from the authorities and it involves Belle Vue who rarely if even come out of this kind of thing with a favourable result.

Er, we'd have still won.

There has been a lot o trepidation amongst Aces fans with regards the inclusion of a Zagar not fully fit. This can be counted though by the inclusion of North for the pirates. Both riders are good for big scores being track specialists but for me the loss of Norths usually high scoring contributions will impact the pirates greater. The six to eights points his teammates will have to cover will be difficult to do. Including a lad who's mind will (rightfully) be elsewhere is a big risk by Ford, especially as it's common knowledge the difficulty Dak has had in dealing with things during these trying times. Whilst not the best way to gain an advantage but I guess at this stage in proceedings you take what's given. Best of luck to all. Up The Aces!!

Me and Jason didn't discuss Dak.

Had a chat with Jason Crump last night and got an update on Darcy whilst buying my wristband of Lemo. With all that and a good nights sleep I've had a rethink about the Dak situation. Firstly apologises for my outbursts yesterday but sometimes things happen in this sport I love that just send me over the edge. Having had time to reflect I still can't believe what's been alleged has actually happened and Dak needed this time away from the sport due to his fathers unfortunate accident. I think the situation we are in now is the Poole management are putting pressure on Dak to ride probably due to him being one of, if not the best visiting rider at Kirky Lane. I think this will backfire though as I can see him scoring 2-4 points when he is good for 8 normally. His mental state will be all over the place due to his concern for his poor father and this I feel will limit his normal high scoring performance. Good luck to all for tonight and stay safe everyone.

If I had to pick a cheat from the back catalogue it would have been missing passport or bad back or maybe something to do with getting a plane to Vegas but using a family members injury is just horrific! How badly do you want this for Christ's sake?

I would of assumed he was just a patsy in Frauds plan but I get the feeling he was complicit in the cheating manoeuvres. Just been a bit sick in my mouth.

CHEATING SCUMBAGS!!

Yeh right. A wind up and not in particularly good taste.

Worst GP of the campaign from the injured Zagar. Why does he insist on riding when injured?? Probably trying to protect his fourth in the world placing or maybe push on for a medal but not doing himself any favours physically.

I guess for me it'll become clear if Dak rides on Monday. On one hand it means his Dad's injuries (thankfully) weren't as bad as we were led to believe but on the other hand it means Poole have cheated again which isn't in the best interests of UK speedway.

I think you could be right here, though I hope I'm wrong. It's not looking good for Poole if this is the case and I say if as the alternative is unthinkable.

Nobody is going to lie or exaggerate about injuries to a family member just to gain a few points in a speedway meeting. Just the thought of it is sickening and needs to be rembered by some posters on here. Stress/depression is to be taken very seriously, as in this case. So I miss out on seeing one of the best riders around Kirky Lane on Monday, it's a shame but I can see the bigger picture.

When people attacked my club with good reason I didn't defend them. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

I think the viewing figuares are good because it's a title decider. People like to watch those whether it's in the form of play offs or not. The problem is being around for the decider when it's run as a normal league campaign which is pretty much what Vincent was saying.

So getting someone else to foot the bill who doesn't have the emotional connection to Belle Vue and looks at it from a purely buisness point of view is even more amazing. Hadn't thought of that, thanks. Thinking Mort said something is very different to the reality of the situation. Crowds have been ok, even up to the point when Leicester won at Kings Lynn handing The Aces a play off life line. I'll tell him what he is supposed to have said when I see him next.