ouch

Coventry.

After years of being told that the play offs are not to blame for the decline in attendance at UK tracks which I've got my head round, I now have to accept that the play offs are the reason for the increased crowds in Sweden. Confused.

They are at Wolves. Belle Vue couldn't accomodate them due to having to ride at lunchtime.

Looks like we're done here. You really do represent the very worst of this forum by dragging threads into some inane tennis match where no matter what is presented by way of facts is sidestepped for some other weird reason just to keep the "debate" going. You're perfectly happy to make things up and present them as fact but require others to continually validate their opinions only to dismiss them or go off at a tangent when proved wrong. It's both unfair and pointless but I'm sure you've enjoyed dangling me off your line recently. If that's how you get your kicks then I feel for you I really do. I'd say enjoy your speedway but I doubt you even go. I've got Colts, Sheffield, Aces, Stoke, Buxton and Aces again over the next eight days. That's how I get my kicks.

If you're saying I'm another poster then you are incorrect as this is and has for the last 12 years been my only sign in. You appear to have had an incorrect idea in your head and having made it up felt the need to share it with us. I guess at least you're consistent. The Elite shield article was from 18/6/16 so that's not two years ago and as the period of time was what you indicated made it irrelevant I take it now it is relevant or will you pick yet another reason why you don't like it now I've pointed out another error? If you read the post with an open mind you may not make these mistakes as you quickly rush to have things correspond with things in your head. We can agree on the headline dodging bit, odd as it is.

I'm baffled by the "Yeah you said that sure". I copied my original post to show what I said?? I commented that riders will use meetings to test set ups and validated it by posting an article about a rider using a meeting to test set ups. I also posted all the other articles about nothing to race for etc but you disregarded those too. I did a quick goggle search to find the validating articles as I'm not going to go through old stars to dig out more validating comments. I will be making you aware of such from now on though to validate the use of the word often. The concept of perceived dead rubbers being discussed or mentioned in the speedway world is not utter nonsense. The fact you disregarded the headline and dug deep into the King piece to validate your point of view was odd to say the least.

I did t post clubs often say. I said..... These days we often get statements like it's not crucial we win this as we can still get a mid table finish and qualify or we've no chance of qualifying so it's a nothing fixture or we've qualified so we're not concerned about the result we'll just do some testing. http://m.plymouthherald.co.uk/mike-bowden-devils-real-future-plymouth/story-23040318-detail/story.html http://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/dead_rubber_against_peterborough_panthers_the_perfect_opportunity_for_ipswich_witches_to_work_on_set_ups_says_danny_king_1_4543831 Please don't misquote me to help further your argument, you shouldnt need to,facts will do.

The only person admitting to posting fairy tales is you. I'll leave you to argue with yourself as you have differing views on play off team Wolverhampton and the likely crowd figures. "Any supposed increased crowds at Wolves would have dwindled after Monday when they were knocked out of contention for a title win, the reality is after Monday no one at Wolverhampton would care less about a league win and thus their crowds would dwindle and tail off". So as well as more tracks retaining a slightly higher and slightly more stable attendance they tracks (Swindon, Wolves and Lakeside) will also have a Play Off meetings likely attended by 2/3/4,000 people (at least) on top of a higher average weekly attendance, you are talking deficits and differences in attendances of the best part of 5,000 people if you work that out to an average of even £10 a person thats a cash difference of £50,000.00 that Wolves, Swindon or Lakeside will make that they probably wouldnt without Play Offs.

You asked for quotes I gave you quotes if you don't like them take it up with the author, don't shoot the messenger If you meant just some fans to mean just me then you obviously read next to nothing on this very forum. Fair play to owning up to your fairytale, most would keep it going.

I couldn't be bothered to go through old speedway stars so did a quick Google search and found these quotes in relation to speedway cup competitions. I was asked if clubs had put out a statement saying nothing to race for or similar so the answer to that simple question is yes. The others I quickly came across were a bonus. I find it odd that you needed proof to back up my post after your elongated fairytale about supposed attendances. I post without any factually evidence to back it up. None. I was also suprised when to asked if clubs make these statements or is it just fans perception. JUST!! Fans perception of how meaningful an upcoming fixture is, is of paramount importance and no way warrants the term just. I not going to get into a discussion out the play offs as I knocked the argument out of the park over a decade ago. I did then and do now concede the point that thems the rules like it or lump it and as such I've never seen a play off meeting. I've seen bits and heard about what's occured but it's not for me. Like I said earlier the few thousand we have watching now like the play offs and lucky for this forum (Fred aside) the rest have stopped going so have no needed to fill pages and pages of pointless arguments like we had years ago.

Scotty was just the same. Let's hope the more that follow his lead the more something with be done.

Dead rubber against Peterborough Panthers the perfect opportunity for Ipswich Witches to work on set-ups, says Danny King 21/05/16 Second leg of the elite shield was described as a dead rubber by some. 18/3/16 Thats pretty much the season over now. Were racing for pride now and we need to put on some better performances at home because its not good to watch for the crowd. 9/8/14 Nothing to race for. Mike Bowden - Plymouth 04/10/14

You often see the we've got nothing to race for type quote in the star and and KL seem to have taken on the policy used overseas where once qualification is out of the window they 'rest' their expensive heat leaders, which in turn sends a clear message to would be attendees.

I think the problem we have now and there's no going back is that we refer to some meetings as unimportant or a none event. Pre play offs you just fought to gain the highest place in the table as that determined the finishing order. We had more teams then and local bragging rights would come into it even if the title was out of reach. These days we often get statements like it's not crucial we win this as we can still get a mid table finish and qualify or we've no chance of qualifying so it's a nothing fixture or we've qualified so we're not concerned about the result we'll just do some testing. This all filters through over the season and leads to apathy on the terraces. The flip side is tell the fans how important a fixture is at the business end of the season and they will turn up. It also happened with the KO Cup and ELRC as riders directly or indirectly said is irrelevant so I'm not riding and fans follow suit. I don't see a way out of this now but I guess I should take the modern approach as we are topping the league and say I'm alright Jack. Doesn't feel right somehow. I think it's fair to say that the 8000 or 9000 fans that regularly attend top flight speedway in Britain these days like the play offs.

I agree riders fighting should be dealt with severely. The fact only the Belle Vue lad get thrown out made it look vindictive and biased. I was referring to Lees amazingly ridiculous exclusion after he was taken off. That and what I mentioned above leaves nobody in any doubt that The Colts were not to win today by hook or by crook.

Hold the front page. Official stops Belle Vue team win a much deserved trophy.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Even after Mondays defeat and even without signing Tai Wolves would have made the play offs so crowds would have increased not dwindled. You and Mr Flange can bugger off with your anti play off nonsense.

Watching Jason before meetings at Belle Vue I couldn't wait to see him develop into an exciting world beater. I watched him at nearby Buxton after he was fixed up there and then later at his home track for The Colts. He even had a ride out with The Aces leading Nicki Pedersen for the best part of a race. Mort was charged with overseeing his development but due to cash being tight too fund the new stadium Jason went off to Rye House and that unfortunately was that. With his spectacular from the back style he would have been a massive plus for UK speedway. I'm gutted how iits all worked out both for him and selfishly for me. The blow is softened somewhat by watching Craig win for GB whilst collecting a silver medal and seeing young Dan kick his career off. Best of luck Jason hope you're fit and riding soon.

Having a crappy rulebook is something we are all use to, the problem is how rules are interpreted differently depending on which clubs are involved. Belle Vue continually get penalised by weirded interpretations whereas if you're in the clique or have some say like the chairman you can bend things to your favour. There's no swings and roundabouts its just the same old clubs doing as the please and the same old club being sh*# on from a great height.

An NKIless Stars score 38, take out NKI in the match The Aces lost and they got 36. Just shows how precious it is to bag a fixture at Lynn when NKI is not riding. It was announced when he signed that he wouldn't be doing all their meetings and there was a bit of an auction to grab meeting where you gain a big advantage. The Aces weren't involved. If that's how you want to run the sport and how teams want to win then I'll leave it with you as I want no part of it. Disgraceful.

Amazing to think a mere 9 points from NKI would have seen a stars win.

We agree!!

If we had said yes the BSPA would have definitely reassessed Tai's average to block the move.

If you want to refer to Tai as a ringer that's fine but no rules have been broken. We get moans when teams win with over half a team of ringer guests or when meeting get called off if the promotion don't fancy it. Doctors notes get issued on a whim for out of form riders or if they just can't be arsed they are replaced by a PL six pointer but again no rules are broken. Written into the rules is the Joker where second scores more than first and people moan about that. Speedway doesn't have a wealth of floating fans turning up at different times to keep crowds healthy we are down to the die hard of the die hards, mainly fifty plus. These fans hark back to good and fair competition and as with the examples above take issue with things even when no rules are broken. British speedway seems to keep chipping away at these stalwart fans and with nothing to replace them with the future is bleak but the modern day mantra from promoters is "I'm alright Jack".

Maybe go back to the system in operation the last time The Aces topped the league and made the final. The one where no replacement was allowed even to replace a rider with a broken thigh. Sounds daft I know but at least it stopped The Aces winning so job done by the powers that be