ouch

Dinosaur. Anybody who cannot see the merits of a system that ensures a nail biting, to the wire end of a tournament is out of touch with modern day speedway. ELRC, British Final, etc, etc, geddit? If your struggling with my proposed inventive scoring in heat 15 then to make it simpler we can have a winner takes all heat 16. Tagging something extra on to the end of a contest is the way to go and mearly builds and the successful thinking used in the play offs. We need to move this method into other areas of the sport and reap the rewards. Always look to be moving forward not backwards. Having said that the old method of determining the World Champion had a winner takes all final seeing Jersey shezsomebody and pop star Egon Muller claim the title. Perhaps the GP series could learn a thing or two as they still adopt the lame method of accumulated scores over a season to find a "winner". Boring. Anyway can't stop as iI'm off to the Town Hall for the wrestling.

Yawn, DAC. We know you don't like the play offs. Why don't you just go away? We use to have pages and pages of wingers like you when the play offs were first introduced but thankfully only a tiny percentage of the dinosaurs bothered putting fingers to keyboard. They've gone now and it's pretty much just down to you. Why hang about having a moan, just go like all the rest have. If you bring other family members to meetings, then take them with you. I get the same thing from the lads at work about being a fan of wrestling. Pretty much every bout goes right down to the wire and the excitement is every bit as good as the play off run in. Being a fan of the play off system I've badgered the powers that be to adopt a system that saw ever match decided at the business end. You basically multiply the loosing teams score in heat 15 by 2,3,4 or what ever it mathematically needs for them to potential win resulting in all meeting ending in last heat deciders. A dinosaur like you would winge about riders not trying in the earlier heats, blah blah blah. Every match being a last heat decider would bring the crowds in. The Aces would have "won" the match on Monday against the Bees if such a system was in place and this would have seen them leave the stadium happy and eager to return for the next fixture, probably with friends in tow. It would give the wrestling a run for its money in terms of shear excitement but I'm sure you'll bang on about it not being cricket old sport. Well it's not 'cause cricket is boring, just like you.

Sunday 3hr Training Monday 2hr Training Tuesday 2hr Training Wednesday 4.5hr NL match Thursday Rest Friday 4.5hr EL Match Saturday 4.5hr BSPA/FIM event

It's about 2.5 miles or an hours walk. I think they will have free buses like the current free Metroshuttles as they will want punters spending in the city centre. Overflow car parking would be by arrangement with the absolutely massive Showcase cinema across the road.

Don't forget to add Eddie Smith, Chief Executive of the New East Manchester regeneration framework, to the list. He said back in 2011 The more realistic time scale is to start the work is spring next year. If it begins in March we would need to be running a speedway meeting by September. I am confident a six-month building plan can be delivered. These are the people Belle Vue are getting their information from that they then pass on. I imagine they are even more frustrated than us fans being stuck in the middle. Six month build plan?

Yes but we didn't know about it 'till years later. Only those involved and Arthur Cross have been in from the get go.

The point I'm making was that Arthur Cross has been watching this process for seven years and not the three oops sorry four years that the rest of us have been aware of it. He must be in the know to be aware of it years before the rest of us. The fact the Aces have been working on it for seven years only became known retrospectively with only a few like Mr Cross being in the know prior to the MEN press release.

I think Authur Cross must be in the know as he had been aware of this project for seven years yet the news only entered the public domain three years ago. The Aces held an event at Gorton Monastry in August 2011 where us not already in the know were given details on the project.

Fair play to them for the press release as getting team information out if some can be a chore. Whenever anything changes no matter how small they keep us informed and that's to be commended. The Ian Thomas type spin can be a bit much for us fans in the know but similar to Kelvin and Nigel's assertions that we're watching great speedway when we know it isn't you have to remember it's also about gathering enthusiasm outside the speedway community. Well done.

More good news along this tortuously tough road. I don't know how they have the patience but fair play to them on continuing to see it through. Maybe when it's done they could set up a task force to get other tracks built. This is the biggest UK speedway development since, well since Hyde Road and being wrapped in the sports village makes it even more complicated to sort. If they can use their expertise on developing speedway stadium to some of the ex teams struggling to find new homes then it's win win for all concerned. Well done.

Be nice to see him back and fit. Don't think The Aces would track him as I can't see his average bring reduced if we wanted to use him.

How much do you reckon we pay in rent now? We currently get nothing from the bars and food outlets and can make no money from functions or other stadium uses.

Got to feel sorry for Cook for falling for Barkers usual verbal abuse. I must say I wouldn't put up with it and if I got fined £300 for standing up for myself I might lose it, especially if I'd just finish riding a bike with no breaks at 70 mph, adrenaline rush and all. The Aces connection wouldn't have helped as I've seen riders argue with the ref on Sky and smash up track property (usually the 'phone) but not been ejected from the meeting. Was he wearing his Aces kevlars by chance?

Was he thrown out whilst still on the floor? The ref needs to realise Craig is representing Edinburgh and not Belle Vue. Getting sick of this.

I've thought about that. Would there been any benefit in putting waste oil in there or is it daft in this day and age?

I got the impression Chris held a narrow lead over his opponents as they kept shouting "you're a foot in front".

True. If you get the data on ex supporters then ask them why they don't come anymore, analyse the feedback and make changes accordingly.

I don't know why in the age of smartphones and the World Wide Web speedway doesn't have an effective CRM. We seem to have no knowledge of who our fans are both nationally and at club level. Data can be amassed in many ways be it an online competition or even someone with a clip board going round the fans on race night asking if they could update their system to allow them to send offers and updates. I think I'm right in saying there is no benefit to signing up to any of the official club websites. With this information you could target promotions to achieve their desired effect. When clubs offer bring a friend promotions or reduced admission deals these are more often than not used by the current fan base but if you had peoples identities and required proof then your promotions can be a lot more tailored and elaborate. It is not however just a case of amassing data it's what is done with it and that's limited only by the imagination. Tracks could share information when trying to attract away support maybe by reduced admission. My take on that is 100 paying £10 is better than 12 paying &16. Home fans might take umbrage that the guy in front gets in cheaper but if he wants it sign up and visit their track at a reduced cost next time. Meet the riders. View from the centre green. Have a meal. Be given souvenirs. Watch from the box. The list goes on. We all know there is a massive amount of ex supporters out there and if we can lure them back and keep them coming five or ten times a year with effective electronic marketing then that would go a long way in getting us back up to where we should be.

What is it with track prep these days. It seems more and more that things are going wrong - badly and it needs to be addressed across the board. We had the Belle Vue call off last year then the Aces were met with similar surfaces at Wolves and Coventry later that year. Coventry are regularly getting slated along with Poole but there seems to be issues everywhere and of course we had the Cardiff fiasco the other week. It all seems a bit ad hoc when perhaps the time has come to sit down and collectively sort it out. Is it the material? Is it the bikes? Is it the riders? Is it the weather? Is it the track staff?

Never thought of it like that. Even a normal match can be judged the same as you can "win" nine races 4-2 and lose six 1-5 and still lose the match even with more heat wins. Then you have the GP, Loram never won a round but became World Champ. There's more to this than I first thought and its making my head hurt now so I'm just going to leave it and enjoy the Bank Holiday.

I'm not a sports fan as such so anymore information you have on this that I can throw back at the lads at work when they take the p out of my sport would help. Ta.

Not read all this so sorry if the obvious has already been stated. It's a money saving thing. Before a top liner came out giving the fans a chance to see him in action again, even if it was a mismatch of a race. The problem was he needed paying start and points money. The new rule does fudge things a bit as I think we are the only sport now where percentage wise you can amass more points than their opponents but still be on the loosing side.

I don't think it's meant to represent the takings from pie & mash with a stout to wash it down. It's more about Belle Vue ( using that here in its geographical sense) getting back to producing British youngsters. I good while ago, but still in the GP era we had Screen, Stonehewer and Smith all in the series together having qualified. All were ex Colts and the point is that not every rider coming through the system stays with the Aces like PC and Mort, but go on the successfully represent other UK teams. So in that sense it benefits the sport nationally.

I agree, we're the Belle Vue of speedway not the Man U. The greatest speedway team of the 20th century and with 80 odd years still to go the greatest of the 21st century. It's 2500 seats plus terracing. Some nice pics of the tin shed here. http://www.bellevueaces.co/newsitem.aspx?id=885 LOL That says it all to me. If a bloke who has issues with club can be tempted then we will have no problem attracting all the people with a passing intrest in the Aces. I think we will get 6000 for opening night. That will pay the £75K in one go plus a good few grand on top.

Half price admission is one of the perks when buying a season ticket or joining the 500 club, so if they are using them as an incentive then they must be running.