Ross Garrigan

I have asked Brian Darby if he believes that Johnnie Hoskins started/invented speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923 and he replied that he does not. He is also surprised to learn that someone has seized upon something he wrote in a photo caption on one of his websites as proof that Hoskins had done just that. I will admit that what "kennylane" has highlighted in red in his above-mentioned post can be interpreted in different ways and I mentioned that to Brian. The point here is that what appears on the website link was not written to suggest Johnnie Hoskins started/invented speedway at Maitland in December 1923 and so should not be cited as proof that he did. I posted the below on the Speedway History Forum yesterday in response to Christian's posting there concerning his 10-year-old mention of Hoskins/Maitland which had been submitted by one party on this Forum as proof Hoskins had started/invented speedway at Maitland in December 1923: - I grew up thinking Johnnie Hoskins had invented speedway at Maitland in December 1923. For all but the last decade plus of my adult life I believed Johnnie Hoskins had invented speedway at Maitland in Decemebr 1923. Why shouldn't I have believed that, it had been written for decades - it was speedway lore. I have owned up to even writing years ago that Hoskins invented speedway at Maitland in December 1923. There was nobody saying he didn't. Now knowing the truth, I feel as if I had been 'cheated' all those years. I have spent about a decade trying to convince others that the Hoskins/Maitland business is incorrect. I fully understand what Christian writes in his posting. I feel embarrassed about what I wrote all those years ago too. I have been trying to make amends for that.

When Bill Crampton wheeled his motor cycle out onto the Maitland track for his first race on December 15, 1923, he was only doing what he had done many times before - lining up to participate in a race for motor cycles on a showground/sports ground track as part of a sports carnival. What's more, he was about to race on grass. I know he had participated in this sort of event many times elsewhere because I have the carnival reports and results. I ask again, what was it that Bill Crampton and a number of other competitors did at Maitland on December 15, 1923, that they hadn't done previously elsewhere? As for the citing of Brian Darby's website as proof that Hoskins started/invented speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923, I have emailed Brian and asked him his source of reference for implying speedway started on that occasion. I also asked him if he subscribes to the belief Hoskins started/invented speedway. I am hopeful of a response from him. I have already mentioned that it wasn't Hoskins who "staged" the motor cycle racing which took place on the Maitland Showground on December 15, 1923. As proof, I submit this extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923, the week leading up to the said carnival. The "club" referred to is the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club: - "On Saturday next, the club will hold motor cycle races, in conjunction with other sports, under the electric light on the Maitland Showground in aid of the Maitland Orphanage and H.R.A. and H. Association. The races are open to all members of recognised motor cycle clubs.." That item appeared in the newspaper column of the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. Then followed the list of club officials who would conduct the racing.

Jack, you are citing what was written by Christian Weber about 10 years ago as proof of your belief that Johnnie Hoskins invented speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923. Have you contacted Christian and asked him if that is still his belief? If not, have you considered he may now think differently? Jack, I wouldn't use what you quote from the South African site as "proof" because I know Christian no longer holds that view he expressed about a decade ago. I have given my source of reference for all I have said on here about Hoskins/Maitland. If you are going to use what appears on a website or in a book or magazine as proof of your argument Jack, you should first do some checking. Check how old the information is and check with the person who wrote it just what his source of reference was. Remember the old Guinness Book of Records we discussed. As for what appears in the New Zealand GP programme, the people commenting must have a source of reference. I would be interested to know what those sources are.

Dave, I have no doubt that what we know as speedway today "evolved" over a period of time. Young men who owned motor cycles during the early part of the 20th century not only used them as a means of transport, but they were also keen to use them as a source of recreation and sport. Racing on roads, racecourses and sporting/show grounds was a natural consequence as they looked for places to race their machines. I even have from my research wonderful stories of men playing motor cycle football on sporting grounds and show grounds. Hill climbing was another form of sporting activity which was popular all those years ago. Dave, I never set out to disprove your opinion that Johnnie Hoskins was the Godfather of Modern Speedway, and you won't get an argument from me concerning your belief. What I set out to do was put a case forward to disprove that Johnnie Hoskins did start/invent speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923.

I just want to add a few points. I have shown during the discussion that just because something appears on a website it doesn't mean it is fact. My example was what appeared in a Johnnie Hoskins tribute on a Scottish website. I have provided proof of what I believe happened during the first season motor cycles raced at Maitland and the period in Australian motor cycle racing history leading up to that season. The extract from the Guinness Book of Records proves that just because something appears in a book or magazine it isn't therefore fact. All I ask is that anyone who doesn't accept my argument on this thread just ask themselves what proof they have which discounts my assertions. I first became interested in speedway in the early 1960s here in Brisbane. From then until about a decade or so ago I believed Johnnie Hoskins had started/invented speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923. Nobody in all those years had publically disputed the fact, and that's why everybody believed that it happened. At the time that Guinness Book of Records edition mentioned on this thread was published, what it contained on Maitland would have been accepted by the large percentage of people who read it. In my mind at that time I had this mental picture of Johnnie having once had the bright new idea of trying out motor cycles on a small track. That's why I can understand today why many still have the view that Johnnie started/invented motor cycle racing on a small track at Maitland. I noticed on I think oldtimespeedway a posting saying that the rider who won the very first motor cycle race on that December 15, 1923 programme, Bill Crampton, should be credited with winning the very first speedway race staged. I wonder if the person who wrote that knows that when Bill rode on the Maitland Show Ground track that evening he was doing exactly what he had done for quite some time on show grounds and sports grounds in the Hunter Valley. I have mentioned that even before motor cycles had raced on the Maitland Show Ground a big promoter was in negotiations with the Show Society to stage a series of bicycle and motor cycle carnivals at the track during 1923-24. That promotion had even tied up a deal to do so before the motor cycles first raced there. That promotion's first meeting had been advertised before motor cycles first raced there. The man who managed the carnivals for the big promoter (Bill Dart) had already served in a managerial position at a carnival on another Hunter Valley venue (the Cessnock Show/Sports Ground) which had included motor cycles on the programme. Lastly, I want to provide an extract from the report published in the Maitland Daily Mercury of the December 15, 1923 carnival. It shows that riders had previously tried the track out to make sure it was suitable for motor cycle racing, but what it also says is that those riders had ridden on similar tracks previously. "For the first time motor cycle racing was introduced into the programme and the innovation proved most successful. In an exhibition ride at the last sports several riders gave the track a good test and they then expressed themselves satisfied with it. They also stated that it was better than several other tracks that have been used for this kind of sport on a number of occasions...." That last sentence makes a very interesting point. At no time was there any mention in the Maitland Daily Mercury newspaper during the 1923-24 season that what was taking place as regards motor cycles racing on the local show ground was "speedway". People have varying views of the definition of "speedway", but does racing on grass qualify as "speedway"? That was the racing surface at the Maitland Show Ground in 1923-24. Motor cycles had raced on cinders in Australia before December 15, 1923, but that type of racing surface wasn't the norm.

Jack hits the nail on the head, what appeared in that Guinness Book of Records certainly is "ridiculous". The problem people such as myself continually encounter is that comments such as appear in the said book are still appearing today. I was accused on one discussion group a week or so ago of "attacking" writer Peter Oakes when I pointed out the errors in his recent item on Maitland which appeared in Speedway Star. It was not an attack on a person, what I was doing was correcting the mistakes. I know I keep harking back to Ian Hoskins, but he keeps saying and writing things about Maitland which are historically inaccurate. When inaccuracies concerning what happened at Maitland in 1923-24 , and the period leading up to that season, keep appearing in print in books, magazines and on the Internet, the myths will just keep spreading. I have enjoyed being part of this discussion and it's time for me to move on. Accept what I have written or discount it, that is up to the individual.

There is one sentence concerning Maitland in the extract from the Guinness Book of Records kennylane posted, namely "The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923." There are three historically inaccurate points in that one sentence. Firstly, organised motor cycle racing on small tracks had taken place in Australia for many years pre-Maitland. Secondly, the first carnival held at Maitland which featured motor cycle racing was in December 1923, NOT November. Thirdly, mention is made that the said carnival took place at the annual show. That is nonsense, the Maitland Show was held in March. I wonder what source of reference was used for the Maitland information shown in the book. Re the size of the Maitland track, five laps equalled two miles. I have filed away somewhere a wonderful aerial photo taken of the Maitland track in the 1930s. In Australian speedway historical writings, the term "short/small track" is used to distinguish that type of motor cycle racing activity from that which was also taking place on the large racecourses.

During this debate I made the point that the motor cycle racing staged on the Maitland Show Ground as part of carnivals in 1923-24 was the same as had been happening in Australia for years. Of course there was one exception, the final 1923-24 carnival staged by the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. I have gone to a lot of trouble to explain that I read the 1923-24 Maitland newspapers day-by-day for all of that season, and even before that season commenced. I based my conclusions having read hundreds of mentions of what was happening at the Maitland Show Ground during that season and what happened during the lead-up to the start of the season. I have read hundreds of earlier Australian newspapers which contained details of the motor cycle racing which had taken place in Australia pre-Maitland December 1923. I know of two other Australian speedway history researchers who have also done what I did and read the 1923 and 1924 Maitland newspapers. Both independently came to the same conclusion I did. A lot of researchers just concentrate on what happened when the motor cycle racing started on December 15, 1923 and don't even research the whole season, just the first carnival or two. An overall assessment of what occurred in 1923-24 at Maitland can't be made from doing just part of the research. In my opinion that is akin to purchasing a novel and reading only a few chapters in the middle of the book. You don't know what happened at the start and you don't know what happened at the end. I know it can be difficult to make a point on an Internet discussion forum, but I have been at pains to make it as clear as possible that we are not talking about the possibility of "an" error being made in the Maitland newspaper, the point is that I know what happened from day to day. I don't base my stand on one or two reports in the newspaper, it's based on day-to-day reporting in that newspaper. Some researchers just look for meeting results, I also look for editorials, advertising, letters to the editor, and what is written during the week, not only what appears on the day the meeting results appear. I can't be clearer than that. If I still have failed to get one of the crucial points across, this exercise has been a gross waste of time on my behalf and it's time for me to move on. All I can do is submit evidence and state a case.

As a general comment in response to this posting, at no time have I ever said that speedway didn't go through an evolutionary process in other countries just as I believe it did here in Australia. I certainly believe it did in the USA as I have seen in old Australian newspapers mention of the racing taking place there. By definition, "evolving" means the act or process of unfolding, development, growth..... Surely that can happen in more than one country at the same time. I know researchers have found early motor cycle racing on small tracks in the UK. Was speedway evolving there at the same time it was in Australia, the USA, and more than likely elsewhere? As another general comment in response to this posting, I have never said speedway started in Australia. As I have never researched the early motor cycle racing staged in other countries, I wouldn't be so silly as to make a statement such as that. The answer to the question "raceleader" poses is quite simple I think, many are of the opinion speedway started here in Australia because that is what has appeared in print for such a long time. When that comment appears, it is often accompanied by the Maitland/Hoskins/December 15, 1923 business. I can remember reading that comment many times. Just because something has appeared in print in the name of speedway history, that doesn't guarantee it is historically accurate.

I have no problem with people giving Johnnie Hoskins credit for what he actually did do for speedway, what I object to is people giving credit to him for what he didn't do. I wouldn't have spent a period of my life researching his involvement in motor cycle racing in Australia pre-war if I didn't admire him. I support the view that speedway in Australia wasn't "invented", but actually evolved. It was fascinating to research that very early small track racing in Australia. Motor cycles started racing on small tracks as a carnival attraction. That final Maitland carnival of the 1923-24 season which was promoted by the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club was a positive step forward. That was an all-motor cycle racing carnival. Then there was what happened at Maitland in 1924-25, something nobody ever seems to want to discuss. That season saw another positive step forward in the evolution of what we now know as speedway. The racing surface had been changed from grass to cinders, other work had been carried out to the track to make it more conducive to motor cycle racing, the meetings staged were either wholly or predominantly motor cycle racing, and for the first time the track at the Maitland Show Ground was called a "speedway". Johnnie Hoskins oversaw all of these changes. What he did at Maitland in the lead-up to, and during, the 1924-25 season is what should be discussed, not what happened the previous season. It is my opinion that the 1923-24 Maitland season deserves a place in the story of the evolution of speedway in Australia. Firstly we saw Johnnie Hoskins become involved with motor cycle racing on a small track. Then we saw a continuity of opportunities for motor cycle racers to race at the one venue over a short period of time. Motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground a total of 15 times in about 4½ months. That benefited both the competitors and the spectators. The riders could hone their racing craft for competition on a small track, adapt their machinery to that type of racing, or even purchase new machinery better suited to that racing. As for the spectators, the opportunity to witness regular racing created greater interest. I asked John Hyam if he had ever been to a library and researched a complete season of speedway racing. He replied: - "I have never had a reason to do that. I have only been to the Colindale newspaper library twice - once to research Canadiian riders arriving in the UK in 1938, the other time to do some research on the move by Crystal Palace Speedway to New Cross in the 1933-34 winter, both times through the 'Speedway News' files." John, I'll explain the reason I asked the question. When one goes through the old newspapers day by day researching a speedway season, it is the closest thing to actually having been there at the time it was all happening. One gets a feel for what was going on day by day. I spent many hours researching just that one 1923-24 Maitland season, in fact I went further back in time looking for when Johnnie arrived in Maitland and I found what I was looking for. I know where he worked and what he did before he applied for the position at the Maitland Show Ground. When I got to the end of the 1923-24 season I had seen enough to make an informed comment on what had happened during that period. Whether you meant your "tram" story and the possibility researchers may be wrong about the subject of speedway being invented/started by Johnnie Hoskins at Maitland in 1923-24 to be connected, I don't know. I made my decision after a lot of research, not just having read one article in a newspaper.

I didn't properly address this point during my previous response to the posting. Yes, there have been claims that no organised racing on small tracks had taken place prior to December 15, 1923 at Maitland. Ian Hoskins is the main culprit. Ian has a complete lack of understanding of the motor cycle racing which had taken place in Australia pre- Maitland. I have provided proof on discussion forums that motor cycles had raced on sports grounds and show grounds around Australia for many years pre-Maitland. Ian Hoskins continues to run me down for "attacking" his father when what I'm doing is trying to tell people what actually happened. About a year ago Ian had a shot at me in which he wrote that the motor cycle racing staged in Australia pre-Maitland was "men racing in fields". All he continues to do is show his complete ignorance of what did happen. Ian has also recently said that when his father started speedway at Maitland in December 1923, there was prize money paid and the racing was controlled by rules and regulations. The truth is that prize money had been paid to motor cycle racers who appeared on Australian carnivals for 18 years. As for his implication that previously motor cycle racing in Australian carnivals took place without rules and regulations - what utter nonsense.

It has appeared in print time and again that Johnnie Hoskins invented/started speedway at Maitland in December 1923. That first carnival on December 15, 1923 staged by the Show Society (they didn't stage another until February) included two motor cycle events, one over 2 miles and the other over 4 miles. If you are saying the two mile distance races staged at the 1906 carnival doesn't sound like what speedway became, surely the 2 mile and 4 mile distance races staged on December 15,1923 don't sound a lot like what became speedway either. If the type of motor cycle racing staged at Maitland on December 15, 1923 is referred to in the context as something being invented/started, surely that means it's new. To be new, surely by the definition of the word, it's never happened before. Some may think Johnnie Hoskins organised the motor cycle racing at the carnivals he was involved with at Maitland in 1923-24. He had nothing to do with the organising, a Hunter Valley motor cycle club handled all nominations, acceptances, did the handicapping, and drew up the fields. The club also controlled the racing on carnival night. It wasn't up to Johnnie Hoskins to decide how the races were run. If the type of racing staged at Maitland in 1923-24 is used as the reason to say that speedway was started/invented there, surely it's the motor cycle club who should get the credit, not Hoskins. Using that logic, it's the club which started/invented speedway. I've mentioned that the final carnival staged at Maitland in 1923-24 was promoted by the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. I have a copy of the newspaper advertisement placed in the Maitland Daily Mercury by the club for that event. At the bottom of the advertisement appears these words: - "ROLL UP AND SUPPORT THE CLUB THAT MADE THE SPORT"

Jack, I know your stance on the Hoskins/Maitland December 1923 issue, but I ask you to read the following with an open mind. I'd be interested to read your reactions. I have tried to be brief on three points. 1). Even before motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground on December 15, 1923, a large promotion (Campbell and Du Frocq) which staged carnivals in Sydney and Melbourne had been in negotiations with the Maitland Show Society concerning their wish to stage motor cycle and cycling carnivals on the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24. 2). Motor cycles raced on the Maitland Show Ground on a total of 15 occasions during the 1923-24 season. On 14 of those occasions they were just one of the attractions at sporting carnivals. On the other occasion, which was promoted by a motor cycle club, motor cycle racing occupied the entire programme. Of those 15 occasions, the above mentioned promoters, Campbell and Du Frocq, staged 6 of them, and various other bodies who rented out the Show Ground staged another 6. The Show Society staged just 3. In other words, the Show Society staged just 3 of the 15 carnivals at which motor cycles raced at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24. I ask the question, did Johnnie Hoskins promote weekly motor cycle racing at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24? Can the secretary of the Show Society be credited with promoting all the activities which occurred at the Show Ground on the occasions it had been rented out? 3). All of the carnivals staged at the Maitland Show Ground during 1923-24 which included motor cycle races, with the exception of the last which was an all-motor cycle carnival, were sporting carnivals. I offer the following extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper (Maitland and Newcastle are in the Hunter Valley):- “The Newcastle Amusement Company has received a good entry for their night carnival on March 16. The motor race of two miles has attracted an Australian record entry for such an event, and at least sixteen motorists will whirl around the arena. Doherty, with his speedy 4½ h.p. motor, has become the recognized single motor champion....” The motor cycle event mentioned was conducted using the qualifying heats and final format. Just what newspaper did that extract concerning motor cycles programmed to race at the said carnival appear in? Note the sentence “The motor race of two miles has attracted an Australian record entry for such an event”. That extract comes from the Newcastle Morning Herald dated March 10, 1906. The carnival was staged at the Newcastle Rugby Football Ground in the Hunter Valley of New South Wales. The carnival featured cycling and motor cycle races. During the very first decade of the 1900s, motor cycles raced on carnival and sports programmes in the Hunter Valley at the Rugby Ground and the Show Ground in Newcastle, and on the cycling track at Cessnock. All of that commenced 18 years before motor cycles raced on the Hunter Valley’s Maitland Show Ground. As I’ve said many times, the sight of motor cycles racing on small tracks in Australia, let alone within the Hunter Valley, was nothing new in December 1923. B.S.F. readers can make your own decision as to the worth of what I have posted. If anyone has questions, I will try to answer them.

John, having read this posting I ask the question, "Have you ever been to the library in your country and researched a season's speedway racing?" The Maitland newspapers contained information on upcoming events on a number of days of any given week. There are also publicity items, advertisements, and then results and reports on the racing. Over the space of a season, researchers such as myself end up with copious quantities of copied images or information transcribed from the newspapers. We do not rely on a single entry in a newspaper to come to conclusions. I have openly admitted previously that I for years believed that Johnnie Hoskins had "invented/started" speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923. Why shouldn't I have believed that? Everyone said so, and everyone wrote that's what happened. Then it was suggested to me that there was more to the story. Having been a student of both history and logic, I set about to investigate the matter. I now know what really happened on the Maitland Show Ground from December 1923 (in fact what happened in the weeks leading up to that December 15, 1923 carnival is interesting) until the end of April 1924. I now know there are a large number of people out there who are mistaken in their belief as to what happened. It matters little to me whether people want to believe what others such as Ian Hoskins say happened way back then, or what people write in magazines, books and on the Internet. I have proof of what I believe happened, and I ask anyone who says I'm wrong to supply proof of why I'm wrong. To quote what appears on the Internet as proof of a historical fact is fraught with pitfalls. I can give a number of examples of Internet postings I have had to debunk over the years. My pick of the lot is what a chap wrote on a Scottish website. He stated that when Johnnie Hoskins left Perth in Australia in 1928 to sail to England he left his son Ian in charge of the speedway operation at the Claremont track. My question is "how many people read that on the website and accepted it as fact?" Those such as myself who have spent years researching what Johnnie Hoskins did in Australia pre-war know that Ian would have only been about 4 years of age at the time. Just because something appears on the Internet, it doesn't mean it is fact. Sadly, some of what is still appearing in books and magazines in recent years is not correct either, whether it has to do with Johnnie Hoskins or not.

Sorry, Jack. In an F.I.M. publication about a year or so ago one of the story contributors wrote that Johnnie DID introduce speedway into the UK. There was some comment at the time as to the extraordinary statement made in such a prestigious publication. THAT is the reason as you say " this matter was brought into the public domain." You see Jack, that "other discussion group" was well entitled to bring the matter up.

I can rule out for you Davies Park as having been the first purpose-built speedway. I know of an earlier one in Queensland but can't say with 100% certainty that it was the earliest purpose-built speedway in Australia. It's not until the old country newspapers are perused that one knows what had actually taken place there. I have researched the early racing staged at the Toowoomba Show Ground Speedway here in Queensland. It opened before Davies Park. If you want the opening dates of both tracks, I have those.

Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT stage a "world championship" at Newcastle during the period of his employment there. That is yet another of the "Hoskins' Myths" which have been around for decades. Peter Oakes also drags up yet another Hoskins' Myth when he writes that the first time motor cycles raced on a programme on the Maitland Show Ground was at the time of the annual Show. The Maitland Show was in March, not December. Hoskins certainly DID NOT run the first dirt track meeting in the world. Norman has already corrected the error concerning Hoskins supposedly leaving Maitland to go to work at the Newcastle speedway. Has anyone ever seen in print Johnnie Hoskins actually say he "invented speedway"?

Jack, you do read too much into comments posted on this topic. There is no need to go all defensive and come out with guns blazing, I just thought you and others may have been interested to read actual comments made by Hoskins. I was not "splitting hairs" and I at time no time said you claimed anything in your post was "unique". It really is difficult to have a discourse with some people. If you find something objectionable with this posting, I have no doubt you will vent your spleen again. BUT, be assured, I won't be returning here. I have better things to do with my time.

Jack, it has never been a secret how/when Johnnie Hoskins sailed to England in 1928. Nearly 8 years ago the following was the opening of a story I wrote about that very occasion. You will notice the date of the proposed opening of Crystal Palace was originally May 12. The opening was deferred for a week to May 19: - The week prior to his departure for England in April 1928, Johnnie Hoskins gave an interview which was featured in the West Australian newspaper under the heading “AUSTRALIAN INVASION.” The article opens as follows: - “On the eve of his departure to England on the Oronsay on Tuesday night, the managing director of W.A. Speedways Ltd (Mr. J. Hoskins), in a special interview, looked forward to the possibilities of this sport in England and reviewed the past history of dirt tracks in Australia.” Another extract: - “Mr. Hoskins is taking with him S. Schlam, C. Datson and R. Johnson, Perth’s leading dirt track riders, and is under contract with the Crystal Palace Co. for its opening night on May 12, only with the possibility of then entering into further contracts. The riders will be paid appearance money on that night, will compete in match races to the value of 100 pounds, and have the possibility of winning other prizes. Mr. Hoskins will act as adviser to the promoters.”

Norman and I have made comments on this thread concerning the sometimes historically inaccurate statements made in Wikipedia listings. Here is further proof of what Norman and I said. In Brisbane's newspaper yesterday (Sunday November 27, 2011) appeared an interview with British actor/comedian Alan Davies who is to visit us here in Australia. I quote from the article: - "Don't trust Wikipedia. That's the advice from Alan Davies .... (Davies) ran into trouble when he tried to correct some entries on his own page. He was stopped in his tracks by a keen young fan ......" Davies commented in the newspaper article: - "I spent some time trying to edit and remove things and add things and change it, and each time my attempts to edit it were changed, and eventually I was banned from editing my own page. And some stupid kid, he's about 20, has taken it upon himself to defend my page from me."