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Gutted I can't be there to see if the younger Moggo is anything like the older one! I reckon Alan would get a bigger reception than most of the riders on show tonight! In the meeting, should be a comfortable win for Stoke. Will be interesting to see how on the pace the Scunthorpe lads are.

To answer this on a hypothetical level, Max would remain a Heathens asset, until such time as they sold him. They could get loan fees for him year on year, or they could outright sell him.

No,but I am saying that I have found all offer better value for money than Birmingham.

I think having that type of rider on track is a benefit because they notice things that people in the pits just don't. You can have all the experience in the world in the pits, but at times having someone who has just ridden the track and knows what needs to be done is a massive bonus. I will use Stoke as an example, because I honestly believe one of our best signings this off season was Jon Armstrong, because he has the experience to look after the younger riders and is someone for them to look up to. Paul Starke, I think the NL allowed him the opportunity to progress. 2 years ago he was averaging 6 after a poor season with the IoW. Signing with Dudley (As were at the time) gave him a chance to learn a new track type (As Dudley and the IoW are rather different!) and helped his confidence. I firmly believe that this will be both Starke's and Worrall's last season in the NL, but it has served the purpose for them. I think they, last season, were at the point that riders such as Clegg, Williamson, Oli Greenwood, Ben Morley, Lewis Rose etc are at now. Those riders are taking a big step up this season to the point where they are becoming the top NL riders, and may well choose to do a final year of consolidation before the "sink or swim" year of PL only.

Kev, I care about all teams, and losing any would be a massive blow, but the simple fact is that Birmingham moved up and were solely reliant on the Sky money. Crowds have dropped after the initial honeymoon period, and the cloth wasn't cut accordingly. When they moved up, there was no jump in crowds to support the move, and any sensible businessman would have seen this and moved back down. I've enjoyed previous trips to Birmingham, but on the last couple of occasions, it felt like the life had been sucked out of the place. Crowds were down, the racing wasn't as good as it had been, and it very much felt like they were going through the motions. I wish it had worked out better for them, and I hope that it does work out in the end, but if they get through this period, lessons have to be learned. Not just by Birmingham, but by all clubs.

I live and work in Birmingham. I moved here a year ago (almost to the day) from Stoke. In that year, I have been to Birmingham once. I've been to Stoke, Coventry, Buxton and Wolverhampton more than that. The sad fact is that speedway at Birmingham doesn't excite me. The track hasn't been right in a while, and the lack of an atmosphere, partly due to the lack of air horns, means that it doesn't excite me. Add in the fact that it is absurdly expensive for a pretty poor team, and I would rather spend the money on petrol to go to Coventry/Wolves than to go to Birmingham.

This argument continues to come up. Let me ask you two questions: Which riders do you believe, this season, are not developing? I would imagine there is, on average, no more than 1 per team, maybe 2 at a push. How do you believe a rider should be judged for development purposes, if there are no riders within the league to be judged against? Do I think the league should be filled with PL also rans, with no real way of allowing developing riders to force their way into a side? Not at all. Do I think that the odd top rider who can ride PL harms the league? Not at all. When Adam Roynon rode NL, do you not think that it gave all the other riders a benchmark? Same with Ben Wilson, Paul Starke and the like this season. How do you know you are able to cut it against the PL riders when you never get a chance to prove it? I'll answer the first question I posed myself. I would argue that the following riders are not in the NL to develop, and if they wanted to progress further, would need full time PL: Tony Atkin Paul Starke (Based on his 10 point NL average last season) Simon Lambert (Previous higher PL average) James Cockle (Been around a while, never really cut PL to a consistent level) Kyle Hughes (See James Cockle) Jon Armstrong Ben Wilson I honestly think that every other rider in the NL is developing. They may all be at different stages in their development, but isn't that what development is all about? In an ideal world, I would pick a team based around an experienced rider to offer them advice, a couple of riders who were higher second strings looking to push to a heat leader, a couple of previous reserves looking to push second string and two newcomers on 3 point averages at the bottom. No-one is saying that development is a bad thing, but surely you need to allow for riders developing at different speeds, and being at different points in the development process.

That sounds like Jamie Smith. Rode for Mildenhall, and Stoke amongst others. http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/2617 shows a history of his averages http://speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.3649.6 mentions his crash at Mildenhall http://www.readingspeedway.com/jamiesmith08.html gives you a pretty good write up on him (Reading in 2008 were his last club) Hope that helps!

I took no joy in being proven right! Unfortunately Dudley are an incredibly strong team, much stronger than most teams in the league, with only Coventry able to hold a candle to them. In reality, they should sweep all before them, barring any major setbacks. Still, I took great joy in pointing out that the trophy only counts when it is in the cabinet, and on that basis Stoke are currently 1-0 up

Another massacre. Heathens to win by about 30-35, with the only real Stoke resistance coming from Wilson and Armstrong.

So long as it isn't Ben Wilson, he is doing quite nicely with Stoke and could do with seeing the season out there!

Perry's new average hasn't come out yet due to missing a meeting through injury. After his 3 meetings, Perry is averaging 9.23. That's how I worked it out.

Erm...not sure how you worked that out! Perry is easily out performing Matt at NL level!

Every team starts with rookies,but there is a huge difference between starting with 2 rookie reserves,and starting with 6 rookies. In theory,year on year,the top 10 or so riders should move up and be replaced at the bottom end. Scunthorpe seem to have a view that the only way to get riders at the bottom end is to have then all in one go now,ready for next season. If 4 of them decide to move on,will the toys be thrown out of the pram again?

I'm happy to see an unexpected 60+ hammering (Like at Cradley a few years ago as a Stoke fan!) However, I'm not all that comfortable with two teams being so far apart in terms of how they were built. Kent, in theory, should have had enough to at least score 35. In Morley, Lambert and Mason, they have enough to be competitive in most meetings. They ran into a Cradley team in top form. It happens.

Not a bad meeting, but it was one that showed the unfortunate gulf in ability between the teams. For Stoke, Wilson, Armstrong and Hopwood all looked quick, and Payne and Shuttleworth chipped in with points. The stand outs based on average have to be Widman and McBain again, with Widman getting a maximum and McBain being paid for double figures. For Buxton, Carr was quick until his retirement, and given that the chain apparently whipped him, it is no surprise to see him struggle and retire out of heat 13. I assumed he had taken a knock, which would explain him not finishing the race. Atkin was Atkin, and scored 10, but he isn't the answer at number 1. Woolley impressed with a heat win, but after that the rest of the team lacked experience (Or in the case of Blacklock, just wasn't at the races. Overall, it was a professional job by Stoke, but an enjoyable meeting with good company. Sometimes, you can't ask for any more than that!

Well, I ended up going to this, and I'm glad we got the win, but boy we made hard work of it! For Stoke, Wilson got better as the night went on, Armstrong didn't look like his normal self, and Hopwood was flying. McBain looks a steal on a 3, and Lee Payne had a fantastic ride in heat 14. For me though, the rider of the night was Chris Widman. Beating Lambert fair and square around Stoke is a good achievement, and he looked happy with it! All credit to the lad, as he looked a different rider than I saw last season for the IoW. Kent were obviously hampered by the withdrawal of Benji and Freemantle, but Mason disappointed, and after that they were basically a two man team with Lambert looking very good, and Chessell chipping in with a good haul. The meeting should have been put away sooner from a Stoke perspective, but maybe that is down to a lack of track time. The final thing to say, the track looked impeccable. Considering all the work and all the trouble, it looked better than I have seen it in about 3 seasons. If it can stay at that level every week, then there will be some fantastic racing on it. It took a few heats to settle in, but it was smooth and the riders had the confidence to go right out to the fence to look for extra drive (And this was used to great effect by Payne in heat 14!) Will it stay like that? Who knows, but I sure hope it is. Having Cradely or Mildenhall here with a track like that would be fantastic.

You can pay every rider £10 per point, but £10 per point is not £10 per point at every team. Cradely are well known for having fans who want to help the riders, so while £10 per point may be their base rate, if a rider is offered £10 per point, plus the club have lined up sponsorship for them, plus there is a fan base well known for helping riders, it looks a lot better than the £10 a point on offer elsewhere! The unfortunate fact, as speedibee said, is that riders would still choose Cradely (And other bigger clubs) due to the benefits they can offer them aside from the points money. Let's also not forget that £10 a point wouldn't go far at all, because it only takes one crash and you have wiped out most of your months earnings!

S Wilson...I assume Stuart? And not Sean as I continued to claim...

Right Firstly, congratulations to Josh Bates. I don't like the guy, but he rode the inside line like a dream for the whole night, and it paid dividends. Secondly, Jason Garrity was by far the best rider on show, but a truly awful piece of refereeing cost him a chance in the final. When three riders collide on bend one, and the rider on the outside of that trio falls, it should be all 3 back. The referee got it horribly wrong, but he had made a few terrible calls up to that point, so I was hardly surprised.

Stoke will never get investment. Unfortunately, the current owners have made their feelings on that perfectly clear.

Just because you had them as a 15 year old, doesn't mean that the team wasn't built to win everything. The approximate starting averages of the 2007 team (taken from final averages in 06, but contains all meetings so not 100% accurate) Josh Auty 10.12 Tai Woffinden 9.98 Richie Dennis 9.02 Andrew Tully 7.70 Scott Richardson 5.03 Byron Bekker 6.67 There is no info on Joe Haines (He had won the British U15 championship the year before and was wanted by basically everyone) Assuming he is a 3, the rough team average that Scunthorpe built to was 51.52. Now THAT is winning at all costs.

It was indeed Y2 for AB and SW, and Y1.8 for RW, but they also had an experienced core of riders around them in year 1! That's the difference! I hope all 7 go on to succeed, but I question the way in which this is being done, and I question whether it is causing harm to the other clubs in the league.

No-one complained because Uncle Len's team had been built to win, at least that is what they had hoped. They were smoked in the same way Dudley were smoked at Stoke! And, they had ridden with a team primarily full of 3 pointers the season before, but even in that 2010 season, they had put out a couple of experienced riders to help the team along! Looking back their top two was Mark Burrows and Benji Compton, so there was at least some experience to help the younger riders along! The proof will be at the end of the season. That 2010 team finished with a team average of 39.42. I will gladly put £20 to the SRBF if this team as it is declared now ends above 39 points. I can't see it happening, and that is nothing against any rider riding for them, I just think that they need a guiding hand or 2.

No, we won't. That season, everyone said Scunthorpe looked strong. Then they tried to do it again, and threw their toys out of the pram when a few of them wanted to leave. Now, their team make up, while admirable, is a poor choice. Yes, I want to see new riders coming through, but building to below 25 is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.