truthsayer

I'm not sure. Not for one second am I saying that speedway is well run, it is nowhere near well run, but it is always going to be up against it, as all motorsports are. Speedway is a very specialist sport. There are environmental, cultural and financial reasons why it faces a bleak future. Lack of venues is the key one and it is hard to see how any landowner can see value in a speedway track over commercial or residential property. The country has, in all aspects of life, relied on imported labour for many years and this is coming home to roost after the self imposed annexing of 2016. Speedway's lack of homegrown competitors, combined with a lack of facilities, an outdated business model and an almost complete absence of a grassroots/amateur system is creating its long and painful death as a professional sport. It's something being witnessed in other areas of industry too. The Sky money could potentially have been invested into a grassroots and developing a new business model, but frankly the base product isn't good enough for modern TV. If I watch other sports on TV, they start on time, conclude when expected and are not cancelled because conditions are bad. The base product sucks for the modern consumer and I just don't see how that can change until the sport dies and it is forced to reinvent itself.

No rubbish!

For real? Loads of people? I mean, there are so many reasons to stay away from speedway and loads of people do stay away from speedway. But are 'loads' of people staying away because of the length of time the starting tapes are held? Really? Am I missing something? Is this really speedway's salvation?

He does seem to be able to figure out the dirt line and make it work later in the meeting. Early on the track is fresher and the inside line generally advantageous. As the dirt builds up on the outside it favours the brave and the skilled who can ride the berm. Its the dirt that generates the speed and he is the master of it.

Totally, this really is no big deal. I don't think the optics are great, but really it's not important. - it's their money - the cost, in the grand scheme of running a speedway club is tiny If they think going away for a business is worthwhile then who am I to disagree. Not how I would conduct things in 2023, but not my money. It won't put any clubs out of business.

Yes (they come back), because they are fans and running a speedway team is their hobby. It's not a serious business proposition any more. In their heart of hearts they must know there's no way back, but they are fans first and foremost and can't bear to put it out of its misery.

A 'tax deductible business expense' is still an expense. It reduces your tax liability on your profit, but tax deductible doesn't mean free, it just means it ultimately costs less than it otherwise would. And of course it's an expense, which will come out of the non existent profits made by the clubs. Equally, speedway promoters are losing a crap load of money. I am not going to begrudge them an overseas jolly/business trip. Without them there is no sport as we have it just now.

Recovering from a mental health illness is not a good reason to exclude someone

You are aware of the chronic shortage of speedway riders available to teams?

Hardly 'disgraceful reporting' those are the official facts as they are just now. BBC has a history of doing this, it's to their credit and to their detriment, as everyone who lived through the EU Referendum can attest to. Even the speedway team is saying it is their last meeting. I mean seriously are the BBC going to say 'well this might be the last meeting, it might not...' if all parties say this is the end? The alternative is to not report it.

It's always important to take a proper gander, whatever you are doing.

It's right and wrong. People like Len Silver and Johnnie Hoskins were of their time. They understood the audience and did what was right in that era. Promoting that way today is not an option. Consumer tastes have changed and the problem we now faced is that speedway is largely run by people who are old school, for spectators who are old school. Those days were those days. Times are different in almost every way. Speedway as a sport relies on commuting riders and cash at the gate and it needs to have a more modern approach to its viability. Those old school promoters were legends of their day and will always be so. But keeping speedway 'alive' isn't an option. It needs to thrive and that requires fresh thinking.

This 100% but also comes back to the point I keep coming back to: if you are a speedway rider you pretty much have to be a league speedway rider, there are no facilities to simply race for the fun of it, or to ride to progress to a higher level. Speedway is at the level of semi-professional football in many ways, but with much higher overheads. I get it, the days when riders could have a full-time job and then race at weekends is largely gone with Monday and Thursday racenights. Equipment is more highly tuned (expensive) and so they have to take all the bookings they can get to make it a profession. Standardised equipment/sealed engines is a way to reduce costs for sure, but that can be either part of a reboot of the sport or part of the race to the bottom. In every other national motorsport less than the top 1% are earning really good money, with another 2-3% earning a living or covering costs, with the vast majority paying for their hobby. Accept speedway is different, but the percentage of 'professional' riders is way too high. They're not doing it 'for our entertainment' they are either doing it to make a living or for the thrill of the race (or a combination of both) so don't let that cloud your view. As a spectator, you pay to help them do their sport!

A Euro league would be the perfect 'made for TV' product but with the same riders racing in each country it's just not viable. But what you say is the dilemma speedway faces. Any good 'product' requires paying the money, so it's a bigger gamble because you have to gain more income through gate receipts, TV income and sponsorship. But (and I understand why) we're going the other way, with costs being cut to try and balance the books. It's understandable, but the product suffers and it's only going to end one way.

While I don't really disagree with you, I would add that the promoter's job is to run their own business to make it profitable. 'Doubling up' (I don't really have a problem with it TBH) is cheaper than importing or developing new riders, so it's hard to blame them for that. Personally I have more problems with guesting, where riders can ride for a dozen clubs in a year. The lack of riders coming through is a core problem and that's caused by a mixture of things, but comes back to my age old gripe that speedway does nothing for people who want to access the sport as competitors. Riders have power as there is a shortage of supply and have to make a living. The biggest issue is that these things can't be fixed overnight. Time is not on speedway's side, so five year plans are not really an option when surviving the next five days is often not guaranteed. The structure of the sport is mad. There's no direction, because it's not run by someone with a vision but by a committee of stakeholders.

Interesting. Eurosport have world superbikes and British superbikes. As far as I am aware, British superbikes is more popular. A big part of the reason is that it is more accessible. The riders are on the large part more accessible and they can go along to races once or twice a year. Eurosport don't need to attract a different audience, the same one will do. Difference between world championships is that the images can be broadcast in more regions but I got to admit I think British speedway feels a bit out of place in their portfolio.

We're talking about different things here. You're talking about the legacy audience attending meetings. I am talking about an audience watching on TV. Maybe you are right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're both wrong... but I am pretty sure there needs to be a new 'product' and if it's not individual racing, what is it? You say nothing to do with league speedway, so what? At least I'm trying! Current league speedway has little credibility. There are not enough riders, it is contrived and a result is often a foregone conclusion. There's no trophy ceremony, big cheque or rider driving off in a new car he just won. There's no 147 or nine-dart moment. There are no heroes, just a bunch of journeymen. A national audience doesn't care about Poole, or King's Lynn, or Peterborough or any other provincial town team. Genuinely, they might be your team but the world don't care. Speedway can take many formats: amateur racing where competitors pay, carnie racing, like WWE, bangers and pantomine, with goodies and baddies playing to an audience looking for a fun night out, pairs, team racing and serious individual meetings which are (in my opinion) the purest form of motorsports. But the stubborn insistence that team racing is the only way will be the death of the sport in the UK. It's not a pro sport and can't sustain itself on gate revenue.

I have no hatred of team speedway and I think it has a place, but in my opinion it is contrived and outdated in a society which is looking for more simple solutions. Cricket is the closest example and the simplification and reinvention of the game generated massive interest. If the spectators are no longer going, and we are not trying to make a product for participants, the ending is inevitable.

I don't really agree with that. Yes Jack and Doris watch Coronation Street but there is a huge audience of people who watch live sport on TV, people like myself who avidly watch Speedway Grand Prix but can't/won't go out to watch on the terraces. Middle aged blokes mainly. TV is the showcase for the sport. It brings value to sponsors, it opens up new audiences and should have a trickle down effect if done properly. My statement that league racing is boring is indeed opinion, however the dwindling spectator numbers and closing venues are facts, as are the lack of interest outside of the sport. Speedway needs to change a lot, starting at the bottom, but redefining the TV product is one of the quickest things it can do to delay the rot while other things are addressed. With even less venues next year there will be even less credibility to the sport. A made for TV series feels like the right thing for me. No one is saying stop the leagues, I am just suggesting what they have is not suitable outside of the anorak audience and never will be. Even diehards reckon it's crap and contrived...

We're trying to build a product which appeals to broadcasters, which hopefully attracts sponsors who see value in the coverage. That's a revenue stream. If the product is good, and the promoter good, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to draw a big crowd - especially if they bring in a big name GP rider to the event. Why would a TV audience be more interested? Where do we start... The sport is broken. It does not have the 42 riders it needs to put on three matches on a Monday night without reverting to borrowing players from other teams. This is literally under-10s football stuff. League racing is boring. It is not credible. There's no prize at the end of the night. It just drags on and on. Made for TV means a meaningful conclusion at the end of the final race. There's no filler riders, but an equally matched competition. It's a chance to restart the sport and engage with a new audience who don't have the time to try to work out what the heck is going on. Your sport is dead. It needs to do something. I still maintain its saviour will be developing a product for competitors rather than spectators, but one thing I am sure of is that stubbornly hanging on to league racing as the only game in town will not be the answer. The audience gets older, the competitor numbers get less and the venues go. New thinking is needed and the whole point of this thread was to open the debate about new formats for the sport - but it seems no-one's too fussed because 'we don't like that'.

I also don't see a big travelling support, to be honest, as most speedway fans fall asleep at 9pm but a bold promotor might bring in some big names and local favourites in a bid to create some PR and put some bums on seats. But, and I can't stress this enough, the idea is a format for a TV audience first and a trackside one second. A series which can generate some interest and attention beyond the anoraks. Maybe it is a loss leader, maybe not, but trying to make a prestigious domestic series is one way for speedway to try and regain some credibility. Maybe this is not the format, maybe you disagree with me, but league race is dull for the mainstream and speedway has to develop something that has broader appeal and which is TV friendly. Personally I don't care a jot about 'teams' but my concept dabbles with it because it is so engrained in the sport.

He gets it!

Maybe I am not making myself clear. What I'm talking about is a product for TV, for a TV audiences, not Jack and Doris who've been standing on the fourth bend for the past 60 years.

Spectators don't turn up in enough numbers to make league racing viable. Continuing that route is only going in one direction. Anyway, you misunderstand me. I am not saying to replace league racing, I am saying to develop a TV focussed product to go alongside it. Diehards are not really bothered about TV because they go, like in the old days, but the business model for any modern sport places more emphasis on the at home audience than those at the venue. So league speedway still exists, and clubs may choose to stream, but I am suggesting once a year clubs participate in a TV series which is individual based, because: - it is more relevant to a TV audience, they can understand the individual personalities, (almost) all races count and they need to tune in to the end to know the result - it gives a more credible and valuable platform for sponsors, hopefully making for a viable event which is worthwhile for competitors, with meaningful prizes - it engages with new fans who don't get league speedway, but its more accessible than Grands Prix - it gives promoters a big night to promote with appeal to fans of all crowds, and an event to showcase their product - it gives back some mainstream appeal - it should not have a negative effect on crowds for league racing Speedway has a lot to do to become relevant but as sports like darts, cricket and pool have shown, you have to adapt to win a new audience. I'd argue TV is having a negative effect on league racing in the UK, or at least not doing anything positive, so doing something different with that huge opportunity seems like something worth exploring.

League speedway in the UK is a joke. There are not enough spectators, not enough riders and not enough venues – and it really doesn’t make sense as a TV sport to the casual viewer. But there is still a desire for team speedway from the (dwindling) hardcore and (probably) promoters. The sport needs a ground up rebuild that probably won’t happen, but how about trying to build a new product designed for TV, but accessible for existing fans? Personally I would like to see an individual series take the Monday night TV slot, with traditionalists able to watch team racing away from Eurosport. Idea would be this… Assume 12 ‘pro’ clubs. Each hosts a round of the series and nominates a rider from its line-up to represent it. Additional slots (to fill the 16) can be allocated to qualifiers or more likely wildcards from the local promoter, broadcast partner and federation, the idea being that they can invest in bringing in big names or local favourites if they think it will put bums on seats. And basically you have a GP style meeting and GP style championship (or like British Superbikes). Riders ride for themselves, but also their teams, so if they are injured they will be replaced by a team-mate, who will score his own individual points but also team points. At the end of the series there is an individual and team champion (probably, but not definitely) the same. TV has a credible, easy to understand series. It showcases each track during the season and represents each team, giving promotion to the local club. Each club has an opportunity to have a big night, tailored to its audience and with reason for supporters of every other club to come along, and hopefully the series would be able to attract sponsors to make it viable and able to generate reasonable prize money. To me, this would be a better use of the TV deal than shooting ourselves in the foot live on Eurosport each week. I think I’d like to watch this more and it could be a step in speedway reinventing itself in the way that many other sports have in recent years