TotallyHonestJohn

Edited for accuracy, However There is a great deal of goodwill running through this sport, so its not all doom and gloom... I for one will be fascinated to see what comes out of this AGM but regretfully feel that nothing will change much, I would honestly like to think it will, Its no secret that I am a big fan of 6 man teams (or 5 at a push) I would like to see something radical come out of this AGM but like many have stated on here I also doubt we will see anything other than the usual tinkering around the edges. Will there will be 7 or 8 teams in a top league with 8 to 14 teams in a second division, (who knows) We wait with anticipation on the official press release telling us how productive the meeting was and how promotions will pull together to save the sport and then no doubt I like others will moan my "nether regions off" at what is being proposed. However one always lives in eternal hope Regards THJ

And the poster is definitely an authority on the latter Regards THJ

No ya ok, I wouldn't do such a thing, it's not rude at all but very applicable not just for me today but for all of Speedway possibly... remember I did say it's what a German Worker would say; especially at about one minute past his finishing time... Now a bet that's got you intrigued Regards THJ

ruffdiamod Sorry for the misleading post I have assumed that there will be 6 man teams in 2019 I have assumed that there will be a build level of 36 points in 2019 I have assumed that there will be a general 2.5% reduction for all British riders in 2019 As the AGM has not happened yet you can assume rightly or wrongly what you want; 7 man teams to 50 build points, 5 man teams to 45 points, Newcastle will or wont run, no one else will run, everyone will run, one league; two leagues; League North and League South or a breakaway league? here's a daft one for you "Shut the whole of Speedway down for a season in the UK and reset the whole dam thing" get that on the Agenda and let all the "Guys" who milk Speedway, but never put anything back into the sport, have a tough year, and that's not the promoters more the likes of the engine tuners and the guys who sell the fuel and the parts, the Speedway Star let them report on Speedway without the British Leagues for a year, what do they put back into the sport? Make up what you want it is silly season at the moment however things should be much clearer by Wednesday evening on the 14th of November with a press release I would suggest on the BSPA web site sometime on the Thursday (or Friday). So whilst we wait in baited breath I thought I would post some nonsense on a "Slow News Day" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39633603 So as a German worker might say "Ich mach’ Feierabend" (Go on Google it) God bless and good night Regards THJ

No I am of the opinion that this season coming (2019) and due to the proposals being made that there will be an allowance applied to all British riders as in the non to distant past to encourage the signing of British riders By lad your good I was typing the above when you posted this and yes you are correct Like I said in my original post and of course because its silly season i.e. pre AGM and just for a bit of fun Cheers Bruv you can play again that ruffdiamond is hard work and not getting with the programme In fact far to hard work this; so that's it Half Day Friday I'm "Balling Up" time for "Offski" Regards THJ

4 of them would qualify for any reduction being applied to British riders? In my little game in my head (sorry) Aarnio being Finnish and Gappmaier being Austrian are the two who wouldn't qualify for any reduction should that be the case for next season Regards THJ

Here you go and just for a bit of fun... and of course because its silly season... Starter for 10... No Newcastle AVE 2.50% (GB Reduction) 1 Jason Garrity 7.59 7.40 5 Tero Arrnio 6.83 6.83 2 Ashley Morris 5.58 5.44 3 Matthew Wethers 5.78 5.64 4 Paul Starke 5.66 5.52 6 Daniel Gappmaier 4.84 4.84 TOTAL 36.50 35.89 6 man team built to 36 points with GB riders getting a 2.5% reduction (and affordable) Regards THJ

Newcastle will run Second Tier of Speedway (unless one big league) Sunday still the preferred option But who knows? Regards THJ

Hey End of season do at The Railway Club in Workington I weighed over a £20 pound note for four pints of "Amber Nectar" and got £10:20 change. When I looked at the cash in my hand the Steward said "is there a problem" I said "I think you have robbed your good self Marra as I got 4 pints there" (in my poshest Geordie accent) and the guy said "no Marra its as cheap as chips in here" so departing with a beaming smile I said "you better find a wheelbarrow for later as I will end up legless at these prices" and it got better as the night went on 2 pints of larger and 2 Gin and Slimline Tonics £9 quid. That's Nine English Pounds!!!! Honestly it was a duty to make a pig of myself. Who needs to go to Spain for cheap drink when there is the Costa Del Cumbria. £80:00 kitty all spent up and a few extras to boot, Hic!!! Needless to say I am just waiting for my application to become a full member of the The Railway Club in Workington to arrive. By the way what a great night the end of season bash was and I appreciate we usually end up rattling around the Trades Hall and due to the success the club has experienced this season the evening was a sell out with the venue (which was rather tight to say the least) being packed out however this just added to the night. (plus the cheap drink to boot which was an added bonus)Brilliant!!! If I had one complaint it was the two bottles of wine I won in the raffle being requisitioned by "The Witches of Workington" in a magic act which resulted in the contents of the said bottles disappearing; totally!!! Although I did see some of the wine later in the back of the Taxi on the way home when Worky Worky adorned with a carrier bag hooked by the handles over each ear started shouting for some Scottish bloke called "Hughie" in the bottom of the bag. Doh!!! Last of the big time drinkers eh!!!! Finally for the benefit of Byker Biker and Tsunami, yes I was rather "Thick Headed" the following morning or should I say Thicker Headed than the usual norm but a couple of pints at lunchtime sorted that laal problem out... Yeah.... Regards THJ

Well the three posts above make interesting reading and I will give my view at the end. Happy Comet I hear what you are saying but I personally think 20 quid is just over the edge at the minute and may turn the grumbling watching into walking away. The comparisons were pulled from other Northern sports clubs and just for a bit of culture I stuck the West End Theatres in; not that I have ever been. In fact someone once said of me if it wasn't for uncouth I wouldn't have any couth at all. Topaz I am honestly amazed at those figures and no wonder the club struggled. You would be hard pressed to run a national league team with those numbers. Bruv you have summed it up well imho. It can be an expensive sport for riders and they obviously want to maximise their earnings and I agree pulling down the point money total will dilute the product to the extent that the side would be a glorified NL team. Thatvwould hit crowd levels for sure. Furthermore as Worky would be the most northerly team in the NL and as such making travelling and possibly attracting riders an issue. I also think you are spot on with the costs you have outlined. Unless the sport went back to a semi pro status where 10k is a nice little earner for a hobby if you have a normal job. But can the sport afford to go back to those "Good old days" I am unsure about that scenario as well. My personal view is 15 quid is about right for the NL and as much as I hate saying this I also think Glasgow have a point standardizing entry costs and 18 quid for the championship I don't think is unreasonable for an adult. Kids under 16 I would let in for free in an effort to catch them young. Kids under 16 currently pay 4 quid and what's the point. 40 or 50 kids at those rates sticks 200 quid into the coffers. If they get in for free and brag to a few mates who knows the kids may even drag the parents in with the age old whinge "Well ya not paying for me" also the shop takings should go up on pop crisps and burgers when they have a bit more disposable cash to spend. Finally if we ever got there 20 quid for top league speedway also doesn't seem unreasonable. Exactly what Bruv will be paying next year I think. Going to be interesting to see what way the promotion jump Regards THJ

It was just out of curiosity with the predicament the club now finds itself in financially and winning the treble. There must be a cut off at where someone stops grumbling and says enough is enough £15; £20, £30, £50 whatever; there has to be a point where someone says that isn't worth the money and gives up. Like me now... a give in... Oh and I fully agree with you that Edinburgh meeting, absolutely something else against a quality team, I even bought the away DVD as well as the Home one, that was pure entertainment as were the three finals and the Glasgow Semi... fantastic... Regards THJ

Newcastle Worky and two or three others didn't attend the AGM in Tenerife last year and no one was squealing about fines then Dave, They may be deferred with a warning I am not sure but its only worth fining someone who can afford to pay it at the end of the day. Who in Speedway has got any money? Regards THJ

Yep as we don't seem to see it up here in the cold North these days any more and the Stock Car racing at Brough Park was great in the day however and I am sure Steve Park or Tsunami will be able to correct me on this but the last time I seen Stocks at Brough was early 70's possibly 71 or 72 and as a kid I loved them. I would gladly pay £20 to go to a stock and banger meeting if it was reasonably local. The Demolition Derby and the Caravan races were the ones I remember the best, absolutely brilliant. Happy days. Only thing was we were hard up as church mice and used to sneak in for free (I would pay now honest) Jesus I am such a hypocrite at times sorry (former ragamuffin who made good!!! honest!!!) Regards THJ

Apologies, not looking for an argument, fully agree and I did say I was setting myself up with the question, and believe me I ain't that young (but I was once and with a good memory, and with the looks of Brad Pitt; however I now look more like his older brother Arm) and it was a pointed question and potentially key to whether you get a side capable of winning something going forward or whether they tread water, the point being you can not have a Rolls Royce for the price of a Mini. At what point do you kill it, currently the team is not sustainable financially and something has to give. Workington could (because of averages) run with the exact same team next season all seven or any 5 plus Kyle if we go to 6 man teams, however due to the success the team has enjoyed it has made it a tad expensive. If they had played ball and lost their away matches by 55 or more and only won their home matches 49 to 41 the losses might have been bearable and manageable. However there would have been no silverware on Laura's sideboard; But no this lot didn't know when they were beaten and confounded all the pundits and experts and swept the board. Brilliant (in fact its better than brilliant, think of a superlative multiply that by a googolplex and you are just starting to register on the scale of brilliance as to how brilliant they were) So Jenga can tell you about the team of 1980 and what happened after that season, this is the only sport were winning something costs you a fortune, but would you be happy to be bottom of the league just to watch speedway, I know people who didn't turn up to the Edinburgh meeting because we were that far behind so they wouldn't come. What are people prepared to pay to watch a good standard of Speedway. Do people want to pay the same but the team will change, do they want to pay less and get a side out just to watch speedway or are they prepared to pay a little more and lets see what happens and I have tried to turn the question on its head by saying the following so as not to discriminate or upset anyone (however it looks like I am failing miserably. again sorry for that) Oh and I believe Ian Thomas used to lay on a free bus and that didn't work either so your bus pass is safe. Adult over 67?Child Under 16? Regards THJ

But why should they? why cant I pay the same price as a pensioner, its Ageist, I as a younger person, or person who is perceived (or is) less than retirement age! why cant I pay the same as a pensioner, we both watch the same 4 guys going round a track, so maybe the question should be what should a person "67 or over" pay to watch Speedway and a person under 16. (by the way I have put 67 as that is the age I can officially get my pension. note I didn't say old age pension as I believe that is not not politically correct) So the revised question is Adult over 67?Child Under 16? Regards THJ

Bruv hear what you are saying and do not fundamentally disagree however if the sport is attracting these numbers you have to cut your cloth to length. So 500 people paying £15 generates £7500 this has to pay for 1 home and 1 away meeting 7 riders on £55 a point as a team average (which is very (very) conservative) and to win the league you pay out an average of 63 points at home and 52 points away (these figures include bonus points) is a wage bill of £6325 add in a stadium rent of £1200 and a fuel bill of £262.50 (7 x 250 @ 0.15 pence per mile) 14 tyres at £15 = £210 before you pay for the likes of insurances and the incidental costs associated that's your £7500 gone. The costs given are very basic to running a team, so that 500 figure is (my uneducated guess) the bottom line as far as a fan base can go I believe without changing other factors. So you have forced my hand sooner than I wanted to show it (crafty sod lol) however that is why I asked the question. The often heard cry is "its a £10 quid sport" however not under the current structure its not, it cant be unless you have a "Sugar Daddy" with bottomless pockets, furthermore clubs have tried £10 entry meetings and put zip on the crowd figures. So; and this is totally from a viable business perspective and looking at it as a businessman; what is needed to support a Championship Winning team financially. (without the need of a benefactor willing to write off thousands of pounds). 500 adults at £16 = £8000 500 adults at £18 = £9000 500 adults at £20 = £10,000 What do people perceive as value for money to watch a championship (hopefully wining) speedway team What interests me is at what price would you kill it, £25 a head? Thought I had posted a sensible question but it looks like I am going to get slaughtered. (Glasgow had the idea first to do away with a pensioner rate, I'm just fishing out of curiosity) There are only certain things you can do and something has to give. So 6 man teams and a reduced wage bill, get the average points money down to £40 a point across the team and this gets the wage bill down to £4600 however the big question that brings up is what standard of rider can you bring in? Will the product still make all those fans happy or by diluting the product do you lose another 100 off the gate further reducing the income, its "Catch 22" Of course the other remedy is find another 250 fans which isn't many is it, (not much) giving out free tickets a few seasons back only put 260 on the crowd, although the average did go up by 11 in subsequent weeks. So the question still remains how much are people prepared to pay for a competitive championship team or how much can they tolerate if the team just takes part never having the opportunity to win anything? Regards THJ

Correct and I didn't want to get into this; however It is assumed that older persons have all the things they need by the time they reach an age such as a mortgage that will be paid off, or assistance with rent and poll tax. Disposable income is defined as money that a person has left over to spend as he/she wishes after all of their required expenses have been paid. An example of disposable income is the £100 left in your account once all of your bills have been paid, persons of a younger age will have more coincidental bills. My old fella (85 coming up) saves a grand every ten weeks from his pensions. I work and have three leeches (oops shouldn't call the kids that but you know what I mean) who are a drain on my resources. Its a lifestyle choice and not everybody is the same there are "haves" and "have not's" in all strata's of life. The Office of National Statistics produced a report in August 2017 that proved this fact that average disposable income is increasing at a faster rate for retirees than for people of working age in the UK, as Britain’s once-generous occupational pension schemes mature, according to an analysts. However, the study — which considered pensioners’ living standards during the past 40 years and was actually published by the ONS — showed that the growing role of private pension income has contributed to widening inequality among pensioners. Between 1977 and 2015-16, the disposable income of retired households increased on average by 2.8 per cent a year, after accounting for inflation and changes to household composition, compared with average annual growth among non-retired households of 2.1 per cent. Overall, this has contributed to a sharp fall in pensioner poverty. In 1977, pensioners were more than twice as likely to be in poverty as the population as a whole. They now face roughly the same chance of living in poverty as the general population. If anyone is interested and can't sleep the link is below https://www.ft.com/content/1549789a-7c42-11e7-9108-edda0bcbc928 But I don't want to go down that route because when can you call someone a pensioner these days without sounding ageist, also there is no retirement age now so it is a bit of a misnomer However sorry if I have offended anyone that was not my intention I have asked a blunt question and therefore getting back to the question What is a fair entry fee to watch Speedway for the following demographics Adult between 16 and 160? Child Under 16? Regards THJ

Here is a genuine question? (lights blue touch paper and stands well back) Everyone has an opinion on what the entry fee should be to watch speedway. (Open to all) Many are of the opinion that it is a £10 quid sport. Here are some indicative prices Cinema tickets average from £8 to £12 Average price of West End tickets £35 to £65 Provincial Theatre £15 to £59 Premiership Football £25 to £99 Premiership Rugby £12 to £18 standing £21 to £35 seated Ice Hockey £10 to £20 Basketball £18 So what do you think is a reasonable price for watching Speedway in 2019? Should there be an age concession as pensioners now have more disposable cash than workers these days Glasgow have done away with the age Concession (is it ageist to discriminate against older/younger people) So as a rough guide there are two ranges (and lets base it on an average crowd of 500 adults and 50 under 16's) Adult between 16 and 160? Child Under 16? More to follow Regards THJ

Honestly It is not just the teams you have quoted who run at a loss nearly all of the promotions in all the leagues are "blowing their brains out", however when you talk to these guys it is the same old "Hydraulics" "oh we have made a small profit", or "oh we have broke even this year" or the old chestnut "oh we have only made a small loss but we are nearly their". One promoter advised that "I've nearly balanced the books and only took a seven grand hit this year due to buying a 25 grand air fence, next year I am in the black" on further due diligence inspection prior to a possible investment that £7k loss was actually and £85k loss and the following year there was another £75k loss. When are these people going to realise, when is the message going to get through, how the sport is being run (especially in the top two leagues) is just not sustainable. We can not compete financially with Poland or anywhere else on the European continent for that matter. Currently British Speedway is being run as a "feeder country" for the Polish Leagues and we may have to revert back to the semi pro or fully amateur format that we once run in the past and stick with that for a period before we can climb back to anywhere near the way the sport was. BluPanther may have put up a really negative post however under the current terms of reference the sport has major difficulties and he may well be correct in his assumptions (unfortunately) Regards THJ

Not quite (whats this fixation with fining all the time) In very (very) basic terms the promoters can attend on the Monday (if they want) along with everyone else and hear what BSPA monies they will receive from the shared events, TV revenues etc. (if any) and learn what the outline agenda is with the proposals for next year. They are then asked at the end of the Monday if they intend to run next year, if "No" they go home on the Monday and take no further part in the AGM. If "Yes" they stay until the Wednesday and input into the meeting and debate the proposals, they are then asked again on the Wednesday if they are still prepared to run under the terms that come out of the AGM proposals. If "Yes" well "Bob's ya Uncle" and away you go, if "No" unfortunately its a case of Sell, Ice the Licence or shut down, or there could be a fourth option of a fans collective taking on the franchise if the owners are up for that and prepared to loan whatever assets they hold to the franchise. (But it ain't cheap and there has to be a solid business plan in place) however if no one was to attend from the promotion they would proxy their vote or just advise that they are not running. Many promotions didn't attend last years AGM yet weren't fined. Regards THJ

Some may regard them as such but many have short memories and the holier than thou brigade would have you believe such.... however I have seen some fantastic meetings at championship an NL level and leave watching the telly to see most so called top teams in action. Regards THJ

Its a done deal, just waiting for the paperwork to be signed off, then up you go back up to the dizzy heights of the top league with the big boys and you won't have to post down here with the second division poor people.... Regards THJ

6 man teams with 36 points Regards THJ

Roy is definitely not that good looking More like "One flew over the cuckoos nest" any one of them!!! Doh!!! Regards THJ

Certainly looks like it and as stated "good luck" to him I for one certainly hope he can pull it off Regards THJ