21st century heathen

I think you're spot on Steve. That's why I used a question mark, and suggested getting the Cov track guys to do the track. Cov these days has loads of dirt on, and is well watered. Like you say though, I very much doubt we'll get what we want.

But Jagus scored 5, and Pepe just 7 on their home turf.

If the track is prepared to our riders style then you have to go with Chris H and Simon because they have earned the right to be there, and they love grippy tracks. If the track is slick then I would have to be very harsh and consider dropping both Chris and Simon. I would think very seriously about not only bringing in Chris L but also Olly Allen. His gating has been very good, and he's been quick this year. Floppy is another possible to come in with Chris L. Bird is way down the list because Joe would come in ahead of him too. Here's a swerve ball for everyone to think about. The Poles could do a lot worse than bring in Adam S. He seems to be riding well, and knows the tracks over here as well as anybody else in red and white.

Realistically I think we need a grippy track to win the WC. There's no better chance of that than when the WC final is in this country. Will we get one at Reading though? Get the Cov tracks guys down there. Scott and Chris ride the dirt well, Mark and Simon like grippy tracks, and despite popular opinion Lee can use the dirt to overtake. C'mon lets have some home track advantage. If it's slick I think the Danes will be tough to beat, although the Aussies are going to be hard to beat also.

Well yes, but the Aussies and Poles were the faves on the night. I was just referring to that.

Ignore the first half , because the second half was fantastic. What a performance from our boys, and I thought in the end we were a little unlucky not to nick it. Crump should have been excluded, and we lost points in the re-run. The same later as the Aussies had the damage minimised by us not managing to make the start in a re-run heat. What happens happens, but just a tad unlucky. Never mind. We got closer than anybody thought we would and gave 'the big boys' a real scare on the night. Roll on the rest of the week.

I'm thinking about going down for the first time, but I haven't decided for sure yet. If there's no 'on the night' sales then I'm afraid the decision is made for me.

Nicki, Hans and JBJ are going very well. Charlie is having a bad year, and KB is struggling to find his best form after the injury, and Bjarne looks like another Leigh Adams in the making. Good in the league, but not so on the international scene. NKI will have a good ride here or there, but nothing more. From what I've seen there is more effort than speed from him. But if they do click they're my tip to challenge strongly.

1. Scott 2. Simon 3. Chris H 4. Mark 5. Chris L 6. Joe If the Brits have the sense to make the track grippy that team should give us as good a chance as the rest of the world. It won't be easy but we should make the play-off with a little to spare. Then get them back to our own back yard, and show them all how ride the smaller tracks properly. Poland are good, but they won't be the same threat this year. Sweden are not quite as good as they were a couple of years ago. Max isn't fully fit yet, and with AJ and TRick not riding over here we should have headstart on them with the set up. The Aussies are similar in that they are not the team they were when they won it. The Danes have to be the ones to watch. Nicki, Hans, and JBJ in particular aren't doing too badly are they? You can't really discount anyone but why can't we be the ones that all the other are worried about? That team looks solid on current form, and I haven't even included the WC's top points scorer. If Lee finds some form over the next few weeks he will slot in, and bump a good rider down to reserve. Keep the faith!

I'd love to go again. Great city, and the speedway is a bonus. If only I could talk my boss into letting me have some time off. Maybe there's time, but it means I'll have to be nice to him to soften him up a bit first. *edit* Just noticed your post Lucy. How lazy is that? And yes it's been a long time since you were an angel. *edit*

Ahhhhh cute couple....... (Shame that bloke was caught in mid-sentence though ) Now I may not be the most photogenic person in the world, I'll happily admit that, but I don't look this bad...do I?

The track was crap. We saw several riders kicking at the surface to see how much dirt was there. They may as well have been kicking at concrete. I love even an average speedway match, but that was really boring. The only thing to keep me interested was a fantastic performance by Nicki after surgery (unlucky not to get in the final), and a great performance from 'Grin'. I bet the average armchair fan switched off pretty sharpish. Is it really too much to ask for some dirt on a dirt track?

You can get Adams at 12/1 from William Hill.

I mean it's been suggested that laydowns are suited to smooth/slick surfaces, and don't give the control needed for the grippy/heavy/tricky surfaces. However they are used in grasstrack. Although I know nothing about grasstrack, I do know you wouldn't describe it as smooth/slick. Does the suspension make all the difference? Is the laydowns v uprights just an excuse used by some riders that can't handle a 'proper' track?

So if laydowns can be used in grass track why is it an issue for speedway riders to be riding laydowns in 'tricky' conditions? I'm not trying to catch anyone out, I'm just trying to understand.

Steve/anyone - Are the grass trackers on uprights?

So nothing. I was just responding. If Nicki bashing wasn't your intention I apologise, but that's the way it looked. Genuine point. Yes, I agree that riders crossing the inside line is a valid topic for discussion. Wasn't it Bager that was excluded at P'brgh last year for having both wheels over the inside on the run to the first corner? I also remember Greg H going way over the inside in a GP (Poland?) a few years years ago (2000ish). The answer is simply to have curbs instead of lines. I don't see why people are commenting on the width of the line. Why does it matter how wide the line is?

The fact is that on this occasion you have singled Nicki out. You ask the question of him specifically. You do not mention the fact that others did the same. Other members have brought up the fact that it was not just Nicki. I don't want to argue with you but I can only comment on your words here, not your private thoughts. If you feel he has both wheels over the line that's fine. I disagree with you though. I still say that his back wheel is on the line.

What a shock. Virtually every rider used the same tactic, but Nicki is singled out! I saw no evidence of grass been thrown up by the back wheel. My understanding is that to be excluded a rider must have both wheels over the line. In short the answer to the question is no. Most riders had their front wheel over the line, but their back wheel was on it and not over it.

Nah, I'm just getting warmed up mate.

Must be the first time we've been in full agreement. Well I didn't go and I didn't have any of my riders on show, well except Greg, so I can speak from a neutral point of view. No! If that were the case there would be no speedway. On Fri the Coventry track was very heavy, and the riders (most) were struggling to turn as they would normally. They all adapted to the conditions (well apart from Martin ), and as far as I know there were no complaints about the track. There was no delay while work was carried out etc. They just got on with it. On Monday Wolves produced a dry track that quickly went pretty slick on the inside. There were three incidents that almost resulted in potentially big crashes due entirely to the fact that it was slick going in on the inside. Scott couldn't hold the bike any tighter when he almost hit Billy, and is seen to apologise going down the back straight, after the race, and in the interview on Sky. Freddie did pretty much the same thing to Scott, and there was slight contact. Scott is happy it's just racing. Then Ronnie almost fell right in front of Scott, who somehow managed to react and lock the bike up to miss Ronnie. Scott a bit upset the way it worked out, but accepts his was on the worng end of a bit of bad luck. Ronnie admits he almost lost it, and appreciated Scott reacted quickly. We all sat back and enjoyed a cracking match. Are you suggesting this match should have been called off because there may have been a next time when the riders ran out of luck (as there was certianly an element of luck mixed in with their skill on a motocycle in those incidents)? Yet you, and others, suggest that riders will have been injured, and only when tracks aren't perfect. Acknowledged. In those conditions? Yes, without question.

No probs Rabs. I think we've pretty much seen eye-to-eye on this one.

That was a little tongue-in-cheek. I doubt they would refuse if people were to post them back rather than actually go to the stadium. Before deleting the match I watched it again just to confirm a couple of things. Based on what was seen and heard by the Sky cameras. Jason was the only rider seen on the phone to the ref, just a second before the ref asked for the CotC. Jason was only rider in the ref's ear when he first looked at the track. Jason was certainly not intending to ride again, as he walked back to the pits on this first occasion. Neither Jason, nor Mark, said it was dangerous. Scott said that they'd said this. Mark said he didn't mind as he walked back to the pits past a camera, you can just make it out as there was no mic on him. Chris said he was p!$$ed off waiting and he thought the track was okay, just before he suggested a show of hands. There is no indication whatsoever of how Nicki felt about racing. He is only seen breifly from a distance, and there is no way of telling from the shots shown. PK, Hans, David, Lee, and Charlie, are all seen quite relaxed. They all seem ready to carry on as they chat and joke amongst themselves in the pits. Non of them are in ref's ear, and non show any signs of negativity at all. Leigh, Greg, KK, (virtually unseen until now), and Scott all agree very quickly not to go out and ride. At that point they should be making their way onto track. At that point the official word from the ref is that the meeting is on. At that point those four riders are refusing to race despite the fact that the match is on, at that point. The ref then bows down to their wishes and calls it off. I said on the other thread, and will repeat here, the interview with RR was very good. He was the only one to think of the fans, and he earned himself some brownie points in my eyes last night. I've never particularly liked the guy, although I respect the work he puts in to speedway, but he gets my man of the match award.

You seem intent on picking at everything but the main point I was making. Time to leave it there, while it's still amicable. But how many people, other than locals, are going drive to the stadium for a refund. The petrol would cost more.

My point stands up against that rather weak statement. Speedway tyres already have a deep cut tread, and F1 tyres are slick (but for the slim groves). Also wet shale has more grip than wet tarmac. F1 cars have more power going through the back wheels than a speedway bike, although the power to weight ratio is said to be similar. My point was that they slow down to adpat to the conditions, and that visibility is worse than speedway because of the amount of water in the air.