21st century heathen

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Correct change only!! ------------------------------------ Fair point about Crump. It was a horrible injury and perhaps he's just feeling his way back in at the moment. But Pedersen seems to be up for it, as I suspected he would be. It's just not in his make-up to just fade away.

£20 is not that bad given it's mostly a great line-up, with one or two gap-fillers admittedly. It's better value per race than even the EL was last season let alone this season where it's weaker and more expensive. I would have to fancy Crump over Pedersen based on what I've seen of them around Brandon with Zagar and Harris likely to be the big threat to those two. If Pedersen can put one over Crump at Brandon then that's a real feather in his cap in my opinion. I have said since the middle of last year that Pedersen is my favourite to win the world title this year and he's started off in great form. I've seen Holder be very good or distinctly average. He and Nicholls the two biggest spoilers in this field. Andersen, Kennett and Schlein likely to come up a bit short. Then Barker, Iversen, Batchelor, Kourneliussen, Watt, Johno and Zengota.

He's being sarcastic because he missed it.

The kid can ride and I think there's a good chance he'll follow in Tai's tyre tracks and ride as a Brit in due course.

The graphic at the end of the video should read 'The Beginning'.

Crump or Pedersen to win it for me so based on that you would take Pedersen. For an outsider I wouldn't look past Andersen. I fancy the elbows could be out for Emil this season and he'll probably still be a little too wild at times to sustain a title challenge.

This is a bit daft because any former rider will lean towards a former club that he has fond memories of. And, equally, is likely to have a bit of a gripe with any club that he a 'problem' with as a rider (whether it be a dislike for the track or certain riders that were there is his time etc). Tatum may be biased towards Coventry, though he does try not to be sometimes, but surely the most openly biased former rider is Rosco? And there's nothing wrong with that, other than I think his love for the club has done him more harm than good at times.

RIP

Last season. It was at Cov this season. I say give it to Leicester. Nobody knows the track. Central location. New club would welcome the income boost.

Sorry about my Rico history, but I maintain my opinion on the nominations.

Perhaps, but that's basically tough luck. None, but then there is quite a significant age difference there. Okay. Harris has one GP podium outside the UK. One more than Rico. So I agree it was a short conversation but at least we had one which is more than we could about Rico's zero. I'm not totally anti-Rico. But a place in the '10 GP Series for him cannot be justified. *edit* typo

You can't have the argument both ways. Though I agree he has generally been very good for us in the SWC, and as I said previously he's a better racer than many give him credit for. It doesn't change the fact he didn't even get to the Challenge Final and has never won the British Title. Quite what the U21 title ten years ago has got to do with it I'm not sure.

As proven by Adams.

What he said... Cheers. Glad to see it wasn't lost on everyone.

I say only in part because once you (not you personally necessarily) accept that there will probably always be two Brits in the series you have to assess who will best represent his country. Harris' nomination can be justified. You're right as a general comment. But if being national champion and finishing higher in the qualifying process is to have any value whatsoever then Harris is the obvious choice as currently the best Brit. If being the highest placed Brit in the qualifying rounds means nothing then where is the incentive for any Brit to enter in future? Besides didn't Nicholls qualify by right when Richardson last failed to qualify? And as I stated previously Harris has two GP medals to Rico's one and I imagine they have competed in roughly the same number of GPs. Zorro is the national champion and finished higher than any of his countrymen in the qualifying rounds. His place in the GP series next season is fully justified. If you think that one race is not enough to show who the best rider is I assume you don't like the current format whereby the GP Champion is decided in a one-off race? A rider could qualify for the final having only scored six points and recorded second in the semi-final and go on to beat a rider that has recorded six straight wins. Surely that's not right? ----------------------- Everyone would have a different idea of who the best 15 riders in the world are and I doubt there would ever be 100% agreement between the FIM, SKY (or other tv companies), the fans or even the riders. If you simply want to select the best 15 riders in the world there would still be arguments over the last few places awarded. If you want a qualifying process then the likes of Zorro and Harris can have their place in the series justified while the likes of Lindback and Zagar miss out. A lot of people want to see the one-off final return. I dread to think what the reaction to some of the surprise exits/surprise qualifications would be like on here. Personally I think the balance between automatic qualification, qualification through the various rounds and nominations is about right. As someone else already stated - it gives the chance to put in a rider that may have missed out more through injury than any other reason, and also riders for commercial purposes. Like it or loathe it the latter must be a consideration. If there were still a Slovenian GP I would have expected to see Zagar get the nod.

He did, but his position did not qualify him for next season. So he should be considered by the same critera that ensured Harris' inclusion. Granted that's partly because of his nationality, but not entirely. Totally ignoring the reasoning I gave. Shame. Rico was crap in his last season in the GP, didn't even make the GP Quali Final this season and is not the current British Champion. Domestic form is not the only factor, though you are right in stating Rico's higher averages. Lindback was dreadful in his last GP season and Zagar dropped out becuase he failed to qualify. I won't keep saying the same thing over and over but just one more time - Bomber finished higher than them in the qualofying process so his inclusion ahead of all three of these riders in entirely justified and no justification to the contrary has been given yet. Not really. How many times has he been British Champion compared to Nicholls and Harris? Didn't spot the wink then?

Based on what? 1) The top eight does mean something. It means automatic qualification for the following season. You are going to be watching the 11 riders that qualified on merit. It's not as though they're all picked out of a hat. 2) Zagar and Lindback again. What's your justification for including them ahead of Bomber? So based on history and making up new rules Bomber shouldn't be included in '10? Back in the real world - He won the British title this season, has the highest world ranking of the Brits and finished ahead of any other Brit in the qualifiers. Woffinden is in because there are too few twenty-somthings challenging the top riders and if we don't blood some youngsters now there is going to be a mad panic in a few years when the GP series has got virtually no experience in it. Hancock and Gollob are still usually the best of the rest, but won't be there much longer. Crump and Pedersen are also over 30. Adams and possibly Holta have raced their last GP. Surely Ulamek and Walasek are not the riders everyone is hanging the GP future on? That leaves Andersen and Lindgren (who also needed a pick to get back in) along with Bjerre. If not for the likes of Saifutdinov and Woffinden gaining experience now where would we in a few years time? I'm not saying we should flood the GP with youngsters, but bringing one in each year over the next 5 years (for eg) will help replace the experienced but aging top 8 as they drop out. Zagar and Lindback again. Why? And why Rico ahead of Bomber? No idea. But is makes a mockery of the argument that the GP should be the best ranked riders but that Bomber should not be included. That's not a requirement that has to be fulfilled.

Still haven't seen anything to justify why the suggested names deserve it more than Tai or particularly Bomber (based on the slating he's got). What is Zagar's and Lindback's current world ranking? How far did they get in the qualifying rounds compared to Bomber? Some are saying it's a joke that Bomber should get given a nomination but then he got further than these two (which are singled out as the two most named riders) in the qualifying rounds. And he's the national champion. So why should he be overlooked?

I've just read through all the posts and can put my hand on my heart and say that nothing has been posted to justify the opinion that anyone should have been chosen ahead of Bomber or Tai. Most of the names mentioned as alternatives seem to be Rico, Lindback and Zagar. Well Bomber was closer to qualifying by right than any of them. Comaparing their EL form shows Zagar as the better rider by ½ a point, but he didn't do a full season. Rico and Bomber scored the same to within .02. Rico has also had his chance in the GPs and I believe recorded just one third place. Bomber has a win and a third, and is the British Champion again. With a chance at the top of the GP tree it's worth Bomber getting one more shot because if the tracks are better prepared in '10 there are few more exciting riders than Bomber in full flow (jsut for the record I'm of the school of thought that Rico is a much better racer than he gets credit for - just to add balance to my post). Tai is by far our best prospect out of the teenagers/very early twenties. He's streets ahead of the others. Only Ed would come into the frame, but he has had two chances in the last two British GPs to impress and has failed to do so. Neither Ed nor Tai made the GP Quali Final so you can't split them there either. As for Lindback - Well he couldn't be bothered turning up for the GP Quali Final so sod him!!! And Ward is just a new boy that had a good season in the PL. What makes anyone think he should be step up the GPs in '10 if beyond me, talented though he is. Overall I can't see what's wrong with Bomber and Tai joining Lindgren and Andersen.

Thanks for putting the work in ballinger. Sadly my team was badly let down by its manager picking the wrong captain. Any chance of a full list of runners and riders when you get 5?

Can't believe I'm going to do this but here goes. I agree!!! Chris Kerr was MOTM for me too. Easily the best I've ever seen him ride. I thought he was unlucky in his first ride, at least from my view point. After that he was quick and controlled while picking up points from the back in what was, at least on paper, a very tough looking meeting for him. Top marks. Freddie was the best rider on display but was a touch lucky because he certainly touched Cam when he dived inside him, and it could be argued the touch caused the Aussie to fall. Even a Freddie fan I was stood with agreed so no bias from me. As I say, he was the best rider out there and deserved to win from that point of view. Bomber and Scott were best of the rest but both looked subdued. I was actually willing Klindt to pass Nicholls in the run-off because I thought he'd ridden well and was a touch unlucky not to have scored the extra point that would have given him third by right. He also rode a cracker in the run-off to give Scott a really hard time for the full four laps. A really super effort and a great race to watch. Bridger looked to be trying too hard, as is often the case with him. I think this is his problem rather than the accusation of being out of control that some level at him. Had he just relaxed a bit more and not tried to force it I think second place to Freddie was there for the taking from him. Good value and his race with Bomber was superb. Klindt had disappeared up front. Bridger was riding hard around the outside of Bomber with Kerr at the back creeping up while they weren't looking. Bridger looked odds on to pass Bomber about 6 times before Kerr managed to sneak past Bridger around the inside on the last bend. Terrific race. Wolbert was very good value and I was certainly impressed by him. Based on that performance a place in the EL next season will not put him out of his depth. Of the rest I would say that Larsen was disappointing, as was Woodward. Robo and Lawson did about what you would expect, and ditto that for Skornicki. Proctor was disappointing from the back but scored okay and took advantage when he had a head start. Haines did a very respectable job and did well to just about out-pace Bomber for a heat win in his last outing, although that was from a 15m heat start. The Americans found the pace too hot, though Fishback held on well to win a heat. That said he was only facing Ingalls from a level start, Larsen with 10m head start and Haines with a 15m head start. Haines got through to 2nd and got very close but just ran out of time and laps. One more bend and Haines would have been through though. Based on that I would put the American down as PL reserve at this stage. Sorry if I missed anyone out. Sandie - Looked for you at the end but assume you had left.

And in your defense you do boo Kennett more than Adams.

Hi Vicar. I completely forgot to come back to this thread after my initial post. I have the details and will happily post them but I'm off to Wolves in a couple of minutes. Please let me know if you already have the details. ---------------------------- Results as promised. Cory Gathercole 2 0 3 2 Mark Lemon 1 1 3 3 Jay Herne 3 1 1 2 Rusty Harrison 0 1 1 2 Ricky Wells 2 2 2 Fell–Remounted Jason Bunyan 1 2 Fell–Disq (Chain Broke) Withdrew Inj Richard Sweetman 3 3 2 1 James Birkinshaw 0 ef-Chain ef 1 Chris Kerr 2 3 1 1 Jason Lyons 3 3 3 3 Paul Clews 1 2 2 3 Tomasz Michnicki Fell-Disq DNF DNF Fell-Disq Luke Priest 0 Ben Taylor EF Heat 1. Herne, Gathercole, Lemon, Harrison Heat 2. Sweetman, Wells, Bunyan, Birkinshaw Heat 3. Lyons, Kerr, Clews, Michnicki Heat 4. Kerr, Wells, Harrison, Gathercole Heat 5. Lyons, Bunyan, Lemon, Birkinshaw Heat 6. Sweetman, Clews, Herne, Michnicki Heat 7. Gathercole, Clews, Kerr, Bunyan Heat 8. Lemon, Wells, Harrison, Michnicki Heat 9. Lyons, Sweetman, Herne, Birkinshaw Heat 10. Lemon, Gathercole, Birkinshaw, Talyor (reserve replacement) Heat 11. Clews, Harrison, Sweetman, Priest (reserve replacement) Heat 12. Lyons, Herne, Kerr, Wells Semi-Final 1. Lemon, Lyons, Kerr, Priest (reserve replacement for Gathercole) Semi-Final 2. Herne, Clews, Wells, Sweetman (ef) Final. Lemon, Lyons, Clews, Herne Noise Test Races all won by Taylor in times comparable with the main meeting.

Very nice to meet you too, though I hope if I see you tonight we can chat properly without having to scream at each other from 4 inches apart just to be heard over the awful music. I don't know where you were standing. If you were with Seb, H, LW and Sandie then we wouldn't have been far away and there was one of our number that was quite vocal in his dislike of Adams (not me BTW). ------------------------------- Ignoring the riders that couldn't be bothered either turning up or riding like they meant it there were still enough top riders on show giving it their all for it to be a good meeting. Highlights for me were Ed's pass on Hans, Bomber's race with Leigh (how big are Bomber's to keep going for that rapidly closing gap ), Bomber's back straight burst from 3rd to 1st, Freddie and Hans passing and re-passes for a couple of laps, Auty's good move on Watt (nice to see a young Brit progressing slowly but surely), Freddie sorting everyone out on turn one after a poor gate, Bomber and Holder in the final (so busy looking for each other that it rather spoilt the chance of either chasing Adams because both were quicker than Adams on the night). I've probably missed a few things out, but these spring to mind. Congrats to Adams. Still hardly a favourite of mine but he's been a terrific servant to British Speedway so I can't begrudge him a win after 16 attempts. It's a shame that Crump and PK are injured because they would have added to the meeting, and gutted Tai couldn't be there. But it was still one of the better line-ups of recent years and I enjoyed the meeting. It is embarrassing for the BSPA that they had to go with a 15 rider field though, and I should add a well done to Auty and Haines for not being beaten out of sight against probably the toughest field of riders they've ever faced. I wonder if the BSPA will try to gloss over the fact that a few pulled and they had to go with 15 riders? The programme had Mads in so they must have had at least a couple of days notice but couldn't arrange a 16th rider. Not good enough quite frankly. And on the subject of the programme - Stop designing one that's a cm too big for the programme boards most of us have. It's a complete waste of money to have programme a fraction bigger than A4 because it has to be printed on SRA3 or SRA2 (depending on the press) and is just trimmed to waste. Desgin it A4, it will fit in the programme board, and you can print it 2-up SRA3 or 4-up SRA2 therefore keeping costs down.