21st century heathen

I agree, it's a risk. They are likely to swap places as soon as the first averages come out. I'm hoping that between them they average out the same at around 16-16½ between them. If not we're screwed. I'd have preferred Brundle, Taylor, Birko as number one. But that's my last word on it. Armo is in and he'll get my support the same as the other lads. I prefer to hold-fire on this until we know the details, assuming it ever comes out. But at face value it's disappointing to think we (the club) could have put another at risk with our vote. But let's not forget it would have been one of four votes, so I hope the Heathens alone won't face a backlash from fans of other clubs. ----------------------------------------- Right, new wish list based on the latest signing. Perry likely and Ritchings offered a place. Assuming they sign we have a little under 9½ to play with. I'm going to make some wild assumptions. There's been not so much as a whisper about Franklin or Sarjeant returning. So for the purpose of this post I'll count them out of the running. We can't fit Taylor, Evans, Dyer or Anderson from last season's team back in, so they're out. McKinna would fit but leave us weak at reserve, so I'll discount him too. So two new riders for the Heathens with no more than 9½ points. The whole make up of our team is very much weaker for '11 than for '10 because we're having to lose a massive 8½ points to get back under the new limit, the most of any team from last season. So our top end is significantly weaker as Perry would have gone from speedway new boy on a 3 at reserve to third heat leader. Morris would have gone from reserve into the main body of the team, where he struggled last season, perhaps even being 4th in our averages for '11. And at the bottom end we're unlikely to be lucky enough to unearth another rider that can go from 3 to 6½ so we're probably weaker there. With all of this in mind I'd like to see the 9½ split evenly to give us a stronger reserve and a decent rider to complete the top 5. So all things considered I would go for Bates (4.47) and Pickard (4.35). This leaves a chunk to sign a number 7 on significantly more than 3 if Ritchings doesn't sign. Armstrong - 8.36 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - 6.40 Morris - 5.06 Bates - 4.36 Pickard - 4.24 Ritchings or up to 3.88 NOTE: I've knocked 2.5% off the end '10 averages of Perry, Bates and Pickard but I'm sure it's right. According to the BSPA website Morris ended on 5.25 and signed for this season on the 5.06 I've quoted above. That's 3.75%. Can anyone confirm because I might to another complete re-think?

Jon Armstrong for the Heathens. He's to be our number 1 and captain. Oh, and the Heathens have opened talks with Newport to make Jon a club asset. Now that I didn't expect. His average is not confirmed in the press release but I have a feeling he averaged pretty much 8. I'm sure it'll be confirmed tomorrow on the BSPA website. http://www.dudleyhea....php?extend.256 *edit* Average 8.36 (which to be fair represents him having nudged it a little higher than I thought)

No idea. One for the Promotion rather than the fans. I sincerely hope that, if true, there was a damn good reason.

Hope he proves me wrong. I'll happily admit it if he goes out and averages 9+.

Armo as a number a heat leader would concern me a little. There's more than a hint of 'how soon they forget' about opinion on Armo from some Heathens fans. He had a string of good results just before being injured, but he had some poor scores too. With weaker reserves likely (on paper) we need a fully dependable top two, in my opinion. Can't comment. I don't even know what average he would be on. Brundle please!! Last I heard he was still struggling with the injury, but that was some time ago. I asked not long ago if anyone had any updated news. I wouldn't mind giving him a shot if fully fit. He was looking good at the back end of 2009. My slight concern would be a top two both trying to shake of significant injuries, though Roynon's problem (forgive the choice of word) now really is just confidence I think.

In the SS Pearson says the Heathens haven't completely given up all hope of signing Armstrong. To paraphrase he says that Armo was very popular with the fans and he's faced a bit of a backlash from the announcement that Armo would not be with us so he's a rethink and there are options on the table, at least one of which includes the little man. Personally, I would like to see the strongest team possible within the points limit rather than backtracking because a handful are outspoken about losing a rider they like. Everybody like Justin Walker but that doesn't mean he was always the best rider we could have signed (if you're out there - sorry Justin). Brundle...pleeeeeeeeeeease!!!!

Yes, I assume that too. This is the same as 2010. The Heathens received a trophy for topping the table but were not league champions.

I just mean it would do the league no justice nor the rider any good if places were filled by someone struggling to stay on the same lap and only scoring when only three riders finish. That's not what I said. I acknowledge from the start it's almost certainly nothing more than coincidence and specify the period I'm talking about as 15-20 years after the mid-70s ban on Swedes. The front page often links to a blank page. I tried going to the NL menu, latest news and hey presto. http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.9947 The BSPA website refers to the league as the NL and the rules and regs refer to it as the NDL, which is what has always led to confusion and debate on here. --------------------------- No mention of P'brgh which may give hope to a resolution. I'd have like a higher points limit and it's a shame some teams have been lost.

Good spot. I'd have missed that because it's not on the front page. Solid top and bottom signings.

Any idea what sort of average he would be on? He could certainly do a job at this level.

A far more significant % that I thought. For so long as there are enough teams in the NL that all the Brits that are worthy of a place get a place that would be fine by me too. What we don't, as suggested, is a situation where there are no foreign riders and perhaps no older riders with 'wobblers' making up the short fall. That would not do the league or the riders any good.

I don't know. I'm sure it's nothing more than a coincidence but it was worth a mention. If it was just one season it would have no effect, in real terms, on British Speedway. How many top Swedes were there that would have been over here given the choice at that time?

Good to see BV confirm.

Refused permission to speak to him. Assume that means Newport want to use him.

http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.9942 Have a read. Is there subtle hint as to track conditions in there or just an unfortunate choice of words?

Not to mention inacurate. Well, there's been no official statement from the EL AGM yet so I wouldn't hold your breath. The only reason we know the points limit for a fact is becasue the BSPA website states what each team has remaining to play with after the signings already made. ------------------------------------------------------ With regard to the discusions here: Did banning the Swedes have any effect? No idea but directly or indirectly the period that followed was the last time the Brits had a significant pool of good riders. Collins brothers, Morton, Lee, Carter, Jessop, Louis, Davis, Grahame brothers, Tatum, Wigg, Smith, Doncaster, Cross, Loram, Screen, Louis, Havelock and probably some more in and around the 15-20 years that followed the ban. Now I could name about 5 in the same class as that list. Coincidence perhaps, but I thought I'd put it out there. I'd have been happy enough last season if we would have completed the season with Taylor and Sarj in the team, with Ritchings perhaps getting the odd meeting as required by a number 8. But given the rules were what they were it was a no-brainer to strengthen the team as injuries kicked in and the opportunities arose. But lets not forget that despite clearly helping us to the top of the table the two Aussies, Anderson and Dyer, went missing before the end of the season. Would we really want that to become a regular problem that potentially has a dramatic effect on the outcome of big meeetings at the end of the season? I don't. But this is the past. If in future it's Brits only I would be happy with that decision because there would appear to be enough Brits to go around. Incidentally, I notice on Facebook that Danny Warwick is the latest rider asking if there's any places out there. Also it would be worth having a word with Perry to see whether he's got any mates on the Grasstrack scene that fancy trying speedway. I'm not saying every teenage kid on the grass could be as good in year one as Perry, but if there's a handful out there that could come in and average 4 in the their first season it would be worth giving them a chance because they would start on a 3. If even one or two go on to be any good (if even progressing only to the PL) it would be worthwhile. Likewise the MotoX scene. Any lads out there struggling to make the breakthrough or not 100% sure it's right for them despite loving riding a bike should have a speedway Promoter in their ear giving them another option.

Great signing. Could be 10 at the end of the year.

Do you want salt and vinegar on your chips?

Ahhh but there are a fair few Aussies and the Aussie pool of riders does get dipped in to. It would, surely, encourage clubs to use more Brits if there were a reduction in the NL too. Besides, it's frankly stupid to have a situation where someone like Roynon can get a reduction but Evans, for eg can't. With the reduction Roynon comes in a little lower rather than a little higher than him. There's very little to choose between the averages of Nick Morris and Micky Dyer. With a 5% reduction Morris would become very much the more attractive option (there would be .40 difference rather than .07). In fact Anderson is on a very similar average too so a reduction for Morris would make him a better choice than two Aussies. Cheers. It was a random guess.

It seems strange that Brits get an average reduction in every league expect the one that's supposed to be training up the next generation. Oh, hang on, did I say "strange"? I meant typical. In any case it's just for fun. As I said I never for one minute believed that's the team we would actually get. I'd be very happy if we could get Brundle though. I'm not sure who he's an asset of, Eastie?

As per Will's comment on the Adam Roynon thread Brits will get a 5% reduction. So Brundle ended on 8.97 becomes 8.54, Roynon is PL 3.85 x 2 = 7.70, Perry finished on 6.56 becomes 6.25 etc. I made it as follows... Brundle - 8.54 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - 6.25 Franklin - 5.13 Morris - 5.00 Sarjeant - 3.72 Ritchings - 3.00 = 39.34 (so even some wiggle room for rounding up) I don't for one minute it's the team we'll actually end up with, but it would be nice. I'd be happy enough to see Priest, Johnson, Pickard, we might get Hargreaves, would be happy if Nick Morris signed, would love Lambert but expect him to be at KL, wouldn't mind McKinna coming in after he missed out with us last due to injury before even turning out in Heathens colours, would be happy with Taylor is he's fit for the same reason (well, he did one lap before injury), and I'm sure I could go on.

Rightio now that we have the points limit confirmed I've completed my 2011 wish list. Brundle Roynon Perry Franklin Morris Sarjeant Ritchings Hope the Easter Bunny (well I can't say Santa at that time of year ) delivers because I've been a good boy.

BV and P'brgh TBC was what I assumed too.

Well we've half a statement with the rest to follow on Tuesday 1st Feb. The main points so far... 40 point limit. At least 8 teams, may be 10 (TBC on Tue). Mildenhall, Bournemouth and Weymouth not running. Stoke accpeted.

I wouldn't worry about your team just yet mate. Wait until both, well all teams, are announced in full before making any bold predictions as to which looks best on paper. Cheers Will. I forgot about the Brit reduction. I don't s'pose you can clear up the who has first call question while you're at it can you?