21st century heathen

Wow didn't see that coming. I'll need time to compute before commenting further.

I've been a Monmore regular for many years now and have seen Wolves' crowd rise and dip over the years. I would say that in the last couple of years their average crowd is pretty much at their average over the last 10 (and a bit) years. As near as makes little or no difference our average crowd is about the same as Wolves', except for the local derby with Cov when the crowd swells somewhat. Clearly, pulling in the punters in roughly the same numbers is going to mean running the Heathens club is likely to be profitable. However, we should not get too hung on purely in numbers through the gate. Each clubs has various sponsorship deals. I suspect we have very little sponsorship whereas Birmingham have a very impressive list of sponsors. Despite the Brummies having infinitely higher running costs in the EL it may well be that they are a profitable club too. It's very difficult to guess numbers in the crowds at a speedway meeting because the majority of us of no real frame of reference. The official figures are never published so it's all down to pure guess work. We were told that last season saw an average crowd around or just over (can't remember word-for-word what was said) 1,000. That's obviously very very healthy for NL as I often read that the NL, and even some PL, clubs ride in front of just a few hundred. It is certainly a factor that a significant number of fans simply refuse to acknowledge Dudley Heathens as their own because they don't race on their own track, the name is wrong and it's not top flight. Personally, I accept the Heathens as my team (though I never call them Dudley I should add) and am happy to see us at Monmore. It's better than not racing, it's a great race track that (as opposed to when we were racing as Cradley) provides good racing many more times than it fails to deliver and it's on my doorstep. Would it be feasible to race PL or EL? Hmm it's an interesting question. Personally I think there would be too many PL fixtures for it to be viable. The dogs are on Monday and Friday afternoon's and also on Thursday and Saturday evenings. Wolves race on a Monday with a Wednesday reserved (or it used to be) for worst case scenario fixture backlogs. So if we raced PL and were successful we would have a lot of fixtures and no plan B for any postponements or rearranged fixtures. There are less clubs in the EL so that might be more feasible. There are a couple of stumbling blocks to this though. There used to be a rule that a new club couldn't go straight into the EL. Whether we could circumnavigate this by calling ourselves a returning club rather than a new club would be open to debate, and the will of the MC. Running costs would be very high and it may not be possible to secure enough sponsorship from Black Country businesses for a club not racing in the region, though clearly just a few miles up the road. Finally, we would need to work closely with Wolves to secure some Monday fixtures for live Sky meetings. Where there's a will there's a way so that could be done but it wouldn't be easy as there are a finite number of Mondays.

I may add more comments tomorrow but my updates say it all really so for now I'll simply say congrats to Stoke and good luck in the final. Best wishes to Tim. I hope he just sat out his last ride because the tie was over as a contest so there was no need for him to risk anything silly.

I think you're suffering from the same misconceptions many have. 3D isn't all about things jumping off the screen. The whole point is to give a more realistic sense of depth. That's how our eyes work. We don't see things jumping out of the scenery at us. Well, not unless you've annoyed your wife and she's swinging a frying pan at your head!! ------------------------------- Just for the record - I don't have a 3D TV and obviously don't have the Sky 3D package. Both are too expensive at the moment. In particular I think the Sky 3D package is a rip off. Yet another £10/month for very little content.

Yes, I'll be there mate. I wouldn't worry if I were you. We could smuggle Herbie and Bullet in and still not rack up a 31 point win. I would rather get a wake-up call in a league meeting though. At least in the league there is time to recover, particularly in this era as just making the top four gives you a shot at being league champions. Screw in a straight knock-out competition and you're out on your ass. I wasn't there so the above doesn't refer to me but it's nice to read your comments Malcolm. I was rather hoping your boys were going to be complacent though so a bit gutted you're cottoned on to the fact that you're going for the win tonight as well. Nice try. If we could get 3 or their riders elbowed from the meeting we'd have a chance. The 180-hour (rather than 7 days) rule refers to guests rather than full time squad members, and the NL is exempt when riding on an EL or PL track as the riders may be riding in more than one league. Can you imagine a situation where a PL club couldn't track it's own riders because they rode in its own NL team the week (or less) before?

Nope! We didn't beat IOW by a big enough margin last week so we're not going to beat Stoke by enough. That's not being defeatest or not having faith in the boys etcetera, it's being realisitc. I'd settle for a comfortable win and every rider having a decent night and restoring some pride. 50 something would be very nice but I think that's out of reach. 49-41 ish

From the link posted above. "Speedway meetings cannot start without a qualified paramedic or doctor and the paramedic did not arrive. It seemed the paramedic had not been notified of the meeting or start time. "It's not for me to say if there will be any repercussions, that's for the Speedway Control Board to sort out." Oh dear, what an embarrasment for the club and based on those comments I would suggest the ref's meeting report is likely to reflect his displeasure as he acknowledges there could be further action. I doubt he'd have said that if he felt the club were not at significant fault here. And what an embarrassment for the Heathens too. Slick and dry, deep and grippy or wet and slippery that's a shocking result by what is a very competitive team. That said I have repeatedly pointed out what a threat I think Stoke can be this season. I'm rather annoyed they chose to prove me right against my own club though!! Congrats Stoke. That's a cracking result for your lot. There's no way we can turn this one around but I'll be looking for all of our riders to restore some pride and make the aggregate score more respectable in the return fixture tomorrow.

Where's the 'like' button?

Coral are offering shorter odds on Woffinden than Kolodziej, Lindback, Laguta and Holta. I agree with much of what's been posted. Crump, Hancock and Hampel have largely gone well there over the years and Gollob has started to believe he can win anywhere. SkyBet will give you 14/1 on Pedersen which has to be worth a punt, as is Lindgren at as much as 33/1. If you want to be brave then perhaps Holta at as much as 66/1 might be the best of the outsiders as an e/w bet, largely because his best results seem to be random and out-of-the-blue.

Whoo great news for the league. This kid is gonna be worth watching!!

Good on ya Kyle and you too by the sounds of it Bob. ------------------------------------------------------------ Cracking all round performance by the lads last night. Finally we got to see something akin to the best of them all on the same night. It was particularly pleasing to see 'Fred' back to his best. He looked unlikely to be beaten by a visitor last night and it was certainly his best performance of the season so far. Sport can be so cruel though and ironically it probably ended up costing him more than he's made so far this year. It looked a big blow up rather than something like ignition or fuel related. MOTM must be nice for the riders and it's a great gesture by the sponsors of course but a new tyre doesn't really stack up against the expense of rebuilding an engine. Gutted for Tom but there were plenty of positives to take from the meeting. I wonder if any PL scouts were in town? The fact that Tom was unbeaten apart from an engine failure but ended up 5th in our score chart shows that the points were gobbled up and shared around well between the Heathens. Armo didn't look particularly quick but only dropped a point, Rich had a very solid night from start to finish but was rather sucker-punched on the last turn of heat 15 (well done Nick though), Ash rode well throughout but typical of the lad he was annoyed with himself for not forcing a way past Nick when dropping his only point of the night, Kyle was superb and looked quite quick and aggressive when it was needed (leaning on Starke to prevent himself being forced out) but a couple of sluggish gates might have cost him against the very best heat leaders in the league (something to work on for the big meetings - should we get that far in the league/cup), Darryl rather tailed off whereas we generally see him get better as the night goes on so that was a slight disappointment on the night (to himself in his post-meeting comments as much as the fans) but 6 from 4 is a solid score for a lad in his first full season of team racing and finally Danny did well to chip with paid 4 from his 4 rides and continues to show improvement (got to get to the first turn with the rest on a consistent basis to score more IMO though). For the visitors I will start with a special mention for their best performers Smith and Cottham. The former had a cracking start to the meeting, though a little fortunate to get a second chance to win heat 1 when Armo had lead the original staging, but slipped off for no apparent reason (though I'm sure from his POV there was a perfectly good reason ) and then gave away too much at the start of heat 15. Although last he got himself back in the fight in heat 15 though so I hope those just reading don't think he tailed off too badly. His scoring did but his performance didn't really. The only real negative for me was that I felt he could have cleared the track when he fell. He was up quickly, clearly unhurt and made no attempt whatsoever to push the bike to the inside of the track. In fact even by the time to the red lights came on he was still stood by the fence. That certainly won't detract from a good effort as far as the Islanders are concerned though. He was the visitors MOTM for my money. Cottham didn't initially look like turning in a performance worthy of any particular comment but improved after being comfortably left in heat 2 by Darryl and being beaten by Danny in his 3rd outing. I rather suspected that was going to be about as good as it got for him, but fair play to him for ending his night with two good rides. He was certainly improved late on. Whether that was getting to grips with the track or tweaking his set up I don't know but something worked out nicely as he shot out the start in heat 12 and made Tom work for a couple of laps. Simmons was a disappointment for me. He's a nice bloke and a very solid and steady rider at this level so he was the one rider I said before the meeting I'd like to see ride well against us. I just thought his gating might be better to get himself in a stronger position more often. He was doing to the hard way too often and with our boys all 'on it' it was something of a struggle. At the opposite end of the scale was Walter who was simply outclassed, though I understand he has very little experience on a surface with a habit of moving and Smethills. Quite frankly the latter should have no excuses for such a poor show as he has plenty of experience. He really was very poor. Starke was another that annoyed me by not clearing the track and his start to the meeting would certainly have disappointed all concerned with the Islanders I should imagine. He did improve though and was certainly trying and on the pace at the end. The Heathens were just too good for him on the night. That just leaves Johnson who was somewhere in between the lot. There's very little to say about him on the night really. He was solidly in the points without ever threatening to be a real danger to us but never looked like throwing points away either. A disappointing score but a very steady display. I suspect against a weaker team, or certainly not one that didn't have a weak link on the night, he could have ended up with 6/7 points which would have been a very useful score. I certainly wouldn't give him any stick for 4 steady third places last night.

Updates should be available. http://www.speedwayupdates.co.uk/ ----------------------- I wouldn't say Ips are getting above themselves. We would allow them to grace the same shale as us. ----------------------- I'ts a busy period we're heading into and some tough meetings to come so with all due respect I'm hoping our boys turn it on tonight, all click on the same night for the first time and post a big score. It would be a nice boost ahead of what are, on paper, some tricky looking meetings.

Likewise, our top four could do that if they all click on the same night. What is especially pleasing about our current run of 6 straight wins is that Franklin and Ritchings have also posted double-figure scores in the last week. We're not just relying our heat leaders at the moment, we have a team quickly finding form as a whole unit. When a couple of lads have a slightly off night there someone there to pick up the slack and score plenty of points.

Ditto. I posted the following on the Cradley Forum a couple of days ago. Stoke are the team to keep an eye on this season. It's going to be a very tough semi for both teams because the Heathens riders certainly aren't going to just roll over. Should be a cracker.

1) Welcome to the forum!! 2) This was the bit I found most insulting. Linking Heathens fan with dogs is the worst insult imaginable. Oooooo, you're asking for trouble there. He's been as guilty as anyone of grabbing front wheels from time-to-time over the years. The chips are generally the best at the local tracks though. That's the point any fair-minded fan would acknowledge. When we've had this type of thing in the past I've often said it's not just Wolves fans or Cov fans (etc) it could be any club on any day when someone, or a even a group, go a bit over-the-top. What villiers is annoyed about is being grouped together as everyone, or most, mouthing of, causing trouble and even fighting. I know that's not what you're saying BTW but it can be easy to misinterpret what people say on here sometimes, especially for new members that don't yet know who's who so-to-speak. As an aside, are you coming over for Lynn's visit to Brandon a week on Friday?

Thanks. Of course, and I'll stress what I said before that there is no place for aggressive and threatening behaviour by individuals towards other fans. But if the NL is a breeding ground for the next crop of, hopefully, world class Brit's then taking a bit of stick from oppossing fans will not do them any harm. When any rider gets stick, by which I mean booing or sarcastic cheers, from the fans it's nearly always because of something they've said or done in the first case anyway. And even then it's generally either in the heat of the moment, like today by all accounts, or like the Garrity situation, which is just light-hearted and panto stuff (which incidentally he seems to have taken on board and played the bad boy well at Monmore a couple of weeks ago by taunting the crowd by fisting the air after winning a heat. Most people were laughing and booing in equal measure and he was applauded when he took his lap of honour after a tough but clean race with Morris). So far this season the only time I've seen or heard of anything that could be described as an 'incident' involving Heathens fans has been when there was some sort of provocation. A few riders have got a bit of stick for getting races stopped, something seems to have happened at BV when a/some BV fans started mouthing off at Perry after he knocked Bekker off (which as an aside he mentioned on FB saying he hoped Bekker was ok) and today it seems there has been some reaction to what the start marshal and referee chose to do when it would seem Morris had done nothing wrong. To listen to some on here you would think all the Heathens fans in the world turned up swearing, gesticulating and actively looking for a figtht!!

A fact not lost on anyone connected with the Heathens after last season! You misunderstand mate. I was at the home meeting on Tue but not at BV on Wed.

Thank you. ---------------------------- First of all I wasn't there but I've read everything (up to about 9pm), so I see it like this. The start marshal is supposed to bring the riders to the tapes in gate order. Therefore, Ash should have been the last to be called to tapes. If the other riders had not been called to tapes and the green start light was not on then he was within his rights to sit back. There is nothing in the rules, as far as I know, that specifically entitles nor prevents the start marshal from touching the rider or his machine (though it even annoys me as a fan when they do so it must make riders fume!). Technically should the start marshall 'pull' at the rider he has assaulted him so common sense suggests this should not be allowed. If riders refuse to come to tapes when ordered to by the start marshall they are breaking the rules on the start procedure and it should be up to the ref to determine whether the start marshall is doing his job properly and if the rider is at fault he should be disqualified. There should be no reason for the start marshall to touch the rider or his machine, except perhaps a nudge to get his attention if he's away with the fairies (I'm sure we can all apply common sense as to what is getting someone's attention and what is 'pulling' at a rider or his machine). So in this regard it would appear that the start marshall may have started the ill-feeling with his actions, and specifically that he does not appear to have followed the start procedure correctly. However, and it's a big however, Ash is bound by the rules to comply with the instructions of the start marshal regardless of whether he has made a mistake or not. In that regard I can see that the ref could rightly disqualify Ash. It may seem harsh but as someone has already posted perhaps a few more riders being disqualified for delaying the start is what it might take to get the riders to comply with the start marshal's instruction. That would have been enough to upset any set of suppporters but to compound it by throwing Ash out of the rest of the meeting, and in doing so not allowing the Heathens a chance to take all the points, seems a massive over-reaction and something I have never seen before. In fact the only time I can recall seeing a rider thrown out of meeting was when Martin Dugard punched Stefan Andersson at Eastbourne. Was this incident in the same bracket as that? I rather suspect it was not even in the same metaphorical sentence! I can well imagine the Heathens fans were, rightly in my opinion, furious with this and an angry reaction doesn't surprise me in the slightest. But make no mistake there would have been a furious reaction by any club's fans in the same circumstance. The officials, rather like football players, should realise that their actions can have consequences on the terrace. That is not to suggest they can't or shouldn't carry out their duties properly, but that 'pushing' or 'pulling' a rider will 'p' him off and get the fans 'going' and for a ref to throw a rider out of a meeting for what seems to be nothing more or less than a start line bust up, which we see up and down the country ever week, lacks common sense. Once again I wasn't there so the following is general rather than specific to anything that may, or may not, have happened this afternoon. Do fans cheers when a rider falls? Yes. Do fans cheer when a rider crashes? No, not in my experience. And therein lies the diffenence when this argument comes up every year or two on here. Fans are cheering the fact that the opposition have been disadvantaged by one of their riders not finishing that race, or throwing points away at least. You'll hear far more loud cheers when a rider slides off when leading than when one slides off 40 metres at the back. Fans cheers when a rider fails to make the two minutes, or has a machine failure, or touches the tapes or otherwise gives their team an advantage in a heat. Any suggestion, and it's implied by some, that any fans want to see riders hurt is insulting, inaccurate and uncalled for. Heathens fans know only too well that speedway riders can be seriously injured. In a short time back in the day Cradley saw three riders seriously injured and sadly we saw one of our own lose his life for the sport we all love. Accusations of Heathens fans flicking a 'v' at the ref and the start marshal and swearing is no surprise nor really worthy of the kind of response it seems to be getting. I see people flick a 'v' or give the 'w' action every time I watch a football match. I hear swearing, and sometimes from kids as young as some that are reportedly upset after this afternoon's meeting, when I'm out and about. However, the line must be drawn at aggresive behaviour towards other fans, or if it were done one-on-one (so-to-speak) with the ref or start marshal for that matter. I'm all for group banter, God knows we and the Wolves fans gave each other enough stick but that was kinda 500 of us mouthing off at 1,000 of them and visa versa not aggresive one-on-one behaviour. There's no place in the sport for that and I would hope that if this has been the case with a few Heathens fans then the majority will make sure it's stamped out. Heathens fans are undeniably passionate about their speedway so if you're expecting a quiet evening sipping Pims and munching cucumber sandwiches I would suggest you're watching the wrong kind of horsepower. The Heathens fans back their team in numbers and make a whole lot of noise about it. Perhaps this is something that has slowly changed in the time we've been away? When I saw "we've been away" I mean the Heathens fans en masse, as I continued to watch from '98 onwards (one season with no speedway was enough for me so I started going again - to Wolves to support the visitors and then likewise to Cov and B'ham). It has seemed to me int hat time that fans generally speaking are not as vocal as they used to be. Perhaps that's due to being used to the cut and thrust of Cradley v Wolves/Coventry meetings?! From what I hear many clubs, particularly at this level, don't get very big crowds and there are a number of new clubs that weren't around in previous era's. Perhaps they're not used to hearing such vocal support?

What gate did Ash have in heat 15?

I agree entirely with a couple of points Malcolm has made. 1) It appears pretty black and white in that if he has a UK passport he can ride in the NL. There's no grey area there. 2) None of us have access to his paperwork so we don't know if he has one or not. Personally I hope he has got a UK passport and that I get to see him ride on UK shale before the end of the season.

Bet it's pronounced like a Welsh double 'l'. The American teams are a welcome addition to top and tail the NL season. There are a couple of riders that it would be good see again.

Taken from the club website. DUDLEY Heathens go in search of more valuable National League points when they travel to Buxton on Sunday (3pm). But they will be without in-form Kyle Newman who is on Premier League duty for Newcastle and the former Cradley club will be operating the rider-replacement facility. All other team members are eligible to take his four programmed rides. Heathens are on a fine run of results after back-to-back wins over Hackney and a brilliant Knockout Cup win at Belle Vue. Boss Will Pottinger said: “We will miss Kyle as he has done a very good job in the last three matches, but we’ll try and utilise rider replacement as well as we can with every rider eligible to take a ride. “We’ll certainly be looking to win of course but we want to make sure we return home with at least one league point. Buxton are a good team although they haven’t raced a lot of matches lately, which i hope might work in our favour.” BUXTON: Guest TBC, Dean Felton, Luke Priest, Rob Branford R/R, Adam Allott, Paul Burnett, Ryan Blacklock. HEATHENS: Jon Armstrong, Kyle Newman R/R, Richard Franklin, Tom Perry, Ashley Morris, Darryl Ritchings, Danny Stoneman And my post on the Heathens Forum copied across. I much prefer seeing Ash at 5. For some reason he and Tom have a habit of falling over each other when they're chasing. Rich and Tom should work well and hopefully both have turned the corner and will look to kick on for the rest of the season now. Certainly both have the ability to put a point or more on their respective average. R/R at 2 is no surprise. It's usually used to give one of the reserves a look at the track before heat 2. I would fancy going on the offensive from the off here though. I'd be seriously considering giving Morris the first outing. A strong result in heat 1 would put them under pressure immediately. I think we have a stronger team than Buxton this season so we should be targetting a win, in my opinion.

Bit late getting to this, but well done both teams for producing some good speedway and a very entertaining meeting. As lacklustre as the first two thirds were from a Heathens point of view the last third was little short of stunning. Gutted for Ash when the bike packed up on the last turn of heat 14. The only Heathen beaten by a visitor in the last five heats - that's embarrassing!! (joking before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick) The visitors were good value for the lead until late on and quite how they collapsed so badly may prove to be one of the great mysteries of the season. Hopefully any and all the fans that travelled up (and Porky seemed to have spotted a group) enjoyed their visit despite going home empty handed. I don't think a single Heathens fan could have complained had you taken something from that meeting so I think you can rightly feel a little disappointed. Newman was a cut above on the night but I think Ritchings and Hazelden were the stars of the show. Terrific performance by both. Oh and apologies to Shane because I think I spent all night texting his name any which way but right!!

What a week to be a Heathens fan. I can't comment on specifics because I wasn't there but just wanted to say a huge well done to the lads if any of them are reading. A special mention this time to Franklin and Perry for leading the way ahead of the heat leaders and Morris, who has so often ridden as well as a heat leader this season. Also a big pat on the back for Stoneman. If we can get him regularly picking up a few points as well we are going to start looking a formidable team. It must have been a hugely frustrating night to be a BV fan, we've all been there at one time or another. I'm sure everyone connected with the club will be telling the boys to just write it off as a one-off nightmare. I'm equally sure that BV will bounce back and still be a threat this season. I still like the look of Stoke over and above both clubs though. Just a feeling I have that they're going to be a very strong team by the end of the year.

If you read the rules I think every NL team breaks the rules!! As far as I know no NL team signed a number 8 at the start of the season but the rules state quite categorically, in bold no less, that every initial declaration must consist a squad of 8 riders. My reading is that all swings on whether Cameron has a UK passport. If has a UK passport he can ride in the NL as per the rule 17.9.3. This is the also the rule that states UK Patriality qualifies a rider to ride in the NL too. However, it appears that Cameron is too young to claim UK Patriality. ---------------------------- My view is that Cameron would add to the league and is not just a change for the sake of change. He's clearly a better rider than the rider he would replace. The league must be an attractive product to the paying public, and not just a training ground for riders that are not up to NL racing standard yet. I'm not going to name names but I've seen a few riders that have been off the pace and I would have no problem with one foreign rider, of any nationality, per team to make sure that the league isn't propped up by substandard riders. The alternative is a higher points limit so some Brits such as Birkinshaw and Warwick etc aren't frozen out of the league. Either option would be a step forward in my opinion. Perhaps a short second half to NL meetings with four man teams where the reserves become heat leaders and anyone on 3.00 average, or lower if an actual average was recorded at a lower value, takes up the other two places. This gives the NL reserves, who may only have had three rides in the main part of the meeting, extra experience and the lesser standard riders still get 'proper' racing without being left half a lap behind by NL heat leaders and even second strings in some cases.