21st century heathen

Roynon has been robbed and he's not very happy about it. #JusticeForRoyno

Lets leave the past in the past and move on now please. ---------------------------------------------- The rain out west has not affected the West Midlands up to now. I'll post again later.

Mildenhall had an awful start to the meeting last time at Monmore 'Wood'. Off the top of my head I think they edged the second half of the meeting. If our boys are not at their absolute best I wouldn't be surprised if Mildenhall take a potentially vital away point. We have to set the target with maximum points from our last fixtures and then it's over to you to see what you can do. It's dry, but dull (again). Could cop a shower, I'll let you know as the afternoon progresses. What time will you be leaving?

Not sure about Rye but yesterdays reasons for people being wound up are now well documented. At Buxton the fans reacted to the shocking behaviour by the start marshal and inconsistent, to be polite, referring on calling back rolling starts. On the DVD, and less subtly in person, Jon Armstrong let it be known how he'd have reacted if the start marshall had treated him the way he treated Ashley Morris that day. And it's usually the way that fans react to something, and rarely if ever is something started on the terrace. It's a reaction to a perceived injustice and in that regard the entire speedway body must play its part too. The only time/s I can recall ever knowing Police called to a meeting was Cov v BV and it happened twice. That was not too long ago. Would I label all the BV fans idiots (or similar)? No, and that's the thing that winds the rest of us up. We keep reading people slagging of "Dudley fans" when it truth it's perhaps a few out of a small number that travel out of the normal large home crowd. Nielsen is one of those that, to me, seems to quietly go about his business and not always get noticed. Certainly a threat and one to watch. Nice to read Bekker was mixing it. He had a shocking start to the season with a series of falls, crashes and bike problems. He seems to be getting into his stride now. Ritchings was happy with his performance and score. He's another that had a slow start to the season but we're starting to see what he can do again. He might just be about to peak at the right time from our point of view. Love his style on the bike and he never gives up. I just wish the lad had faster bikes and more consistent starts. If he does next season I can see him doing what Perry has done and could turn into an out-and-out heat leader 'overnight'. I guess from your comment you would more-or-less ditto that for Halsey and be hoping he peaks at the right time too? I agree that hurling obscenities is OTT, but he's fair game for a bit of booing. As I said yesterday I do think a ride in the top 5 came a bit too soon for Greenwood. He's a bit of a victim of his own success and Perry having to ride for Somerset on a couple of Tuesdays so not getting his new average. I'm sure he'll learn a lot but I hope his confidence isn't knocked in the process. It's certainly a problem for riders like him and Ritchings, that have the ability to move up the speedway ladder, that they can't get more meaningful meetings to keep their eye in, so-to-speak. Ritchings is better equipped, in my opinion, for a place in the top 5 at the moment, though Greenwood has had a remarkable return to speedway so far. I've trimmed the quote right down just because my post is going to get very long. Respectfully, you mention the 'Internet commandos' but you've done the exact same as those you point the finger at. You've just dragged up the start time again. While I agree that reports of what some Dudley fans may have said/done is not on, again it reads as a long post taking a swipe at all the Dudley fans while glossing over, with only a brief mention, of the part played by some at Mildenhall. It's just not fair on the majority. A Mildenhall fan is said to have told a Dudley fan to 'F' off and called him a 'W' and from two separate reports it seems Mr Lee told one of our riders to 'F' off back to where he came from. I've since read a comment on FB that some Dudley fans were taunted by a Mildenhall fan being told they were only there because they had no jobs to go to. I wasn't there but I can take it all in and come to the fair-minded conclusion that there were clearly faults on both sides. Given what went before from our clubs neither really come out of it with any credit, though the on-track result was very much deserved looking at everything I've read about the racing so full credit to the riders for the result. You sound almost disappointed. He was a Brummie wasn't he. Don't confuse The Black Country with Birmingham. Perhaps, in which case I offer the contributor my apologies.

That's a silly first post but hey-ho. ----------------- Cheers. I have been a little concerned that Dan may be delivering a little too much too soon from reserve, as strange a comment as that may seem. I'd like to have seen him have two full years at reserve on his return to the sport, or at least in and out of reserve like Darryl has. Darryl should be ready to take it on now and I suspect he can. Apologies re Louis. It was a bit of a sweeping statement that the like of him and Mr Lee probably won't be concerned by some booing and geering. Some Heathens fans are none too pleased that some, and I reiterate again 'some', people went over the top. There are a few comments on FB about it.

What a surprise. Heathens fans get slated in detail but the part played by the other side is somewhat glossed over, and Roynon gets a mention even though we didn't track him. Given the run-up to the meeting it was obvious there would be some tension. Booing Jason Garrity is down to now long-standing banter between him and the Heathens fans. It's pantomime stuff and he revels in it. He plays up to the crowd, especially at Monmore. It's a bit of banter, that's all. The boos for the Mildenhall management are not really a surprise and I'm quite sure Mr Lee and Mr Louis have heard it all before, if not worse 'back in the day' when big biased crowds turned up for speedway, so it's almost certainly water off a ducks back. A Dudley fan had her flag (or flags - not sure) taken down and thrown on the dog track. Two sources report hearing Mr Lee tell a Dudley rider to 'F' off back to where he came from. A Dudley fan reports he was told to 'F' off and called a 'W', and admits he reacted to it. Will I sit here in judgement and label all Mildenhall fans a disgrace? No, of course not. Should Dudley fans as a collective term be slated to the extent we are? No, of course not. Every club will have a problem with some fans going over the top in one way or another. The whole issue could, and should, have been avoided. Mildenhall should not have changed the start time at late notice following a previous agreement. Dudley should not have backed down once the BSPA ruled in its favour and the having made a ruling the BSPA should have insisted on the earlier start time (if anything both clubs should be fined for not adhering to the BSPA ruling). But none of that excuses the reported behaviour of fans on both sides. I suspect the ill-feeling will rumble on for the rest of the season with a significant chance we'll be meeting again in the latter part of the season, but I sincerely hope that everyone calms down and is able to have enjoyable banter and not let it spill over into an aggressive tone. I believe both clubs now have a duty to help calm the waters and smooth things over a little. Whatever they may feel or say behind closed doors should not necessarily be reflected in public statements. Now, what I'm really interested in is the racing. Can anyone report on the racing please? I'd be particularly interested to know what people thought of Ritchings and Greenwood and how they coped with riding in the top five. *edit* I forgot to add that apparently a significant sum (not my place to disclose the actual amount) was donated by the Heathens' fans on the bus to Mildenhall. It will be split evenly between the 7 riders that represented the club yesterday - a gesture I understand the guest riders are surprised by and appreciative of in equal measure. Well done everyone, I was surprised to see the amount raised.

Everyone has had their say about the lead up to the meeting. So now it's upon us it's time to get back to what matters most, which is the racing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personally I think our boys + 1 can still give them a meeting. Our bottom 4 have all, at times, proven to be quick and smooth taking some big scalps.

Right, I think everyone has had their say now and the thread is just going around in circles. The meeting goes ahead at 16:30 on Sunday with the teams to be confirmed and no amount of arguing on here will change anything. So before it gets out of hand I'm going to lock this thread and set up a new one. It will be strictly for discussion about the on-track action so please respect that from the outset. Cheers everyone.

Well that's new!! I've ridden on the road in mist/fog and can tell you it's no fun. Not only are you trying to see through the fog but you get moisture resting on, but not running off like rain would, the visor/goggles. Imagine trying to look through frosted glass on a foggy day!

There's no point fans getting 'ratty' with each other. The Heathens fans were under the impression it had been changed because that's what we were told. Mildenhall fans will just have to accept that as fact, why would Heathens fans lie about it?! The Mildenhall fans have heard nothing of the sort and state there have been no announcements about a change of start time. Heathens fans will just have to accept that, why would they lie?! The Heathens' management view seems to be backed up by Leicester and by something in the Speedway Star (I haven't seen that myself as I don't buy it). Also, the fact that the Mildenhall website was updated just after the home defeat at the weekend has raised a question (I first read that on someone's FB), though as I stated previously there could be a legitimate reason. The real issue here is not that Heathens will have riders missing, we all accept that because riders are often called up for higher level racing. It happens in the EL just as much as the NL. Just a few weeks ago 7 of the 14 regular riders were missing from a meeting at Coventry. The real issue is whether or not the Mildenhall management have made a late change to a previous agreement and the reason for it.

From the Leicester website: http://leicesterlions.co/2012/07/ Fixture amendments Monday, July 23rd, 2012 | Fixtures, News Beaumont Park will host the inaugural Midland Development League Riders’ Championship Final when the top riders from the seven clubs will compete for the title. The event is planned for Friday 28th September with a 7.30pm start. A new staging date of Sunday 19th August for the recently abandoned rain-off meeting against the Workington Comets has been agreed between the two clubs which will now become the 2nd leg of the Knock-out Cup Quarter Final. The meeting will start at 7.30pm to allow Lions rider Lewis Blackbird to compete earlier in the afternoon for Mildenhall before making his way to Leicester for the cup tie. A new date has been agreed for the Premier League fixture that was rained-off in May. Leicester will now visit Edinburgh on Friday 21st September.

Their scores were not an unfair reflection of the way the night went, but before the meeting I would have had them down for more than one race win each. I should have included Reade too, because he had a sluggish start. Lambert is up their with Roynon at this level. He's been a PL second string, and a very useful one at that, in the past. Birks has been in cracking form lately and rode well at Monmore just a week ago against strong opposition. Reade may not be in quite the same form as Perry but he's having a superb season (doing what I expected of him last season) and has been banging big scores pretty much everywhere. The fact that the bottom end for Stoke is much weaker than ours meant that keeping these three relatively in check was the reason we ran out such comfortable winners.

From the Dudley Heathens website... HEATHENS chiefs are to voice their objections after learning that Mildenhall have reverted back to a 4.30 start for the league clash between the sides on Sunday week, August 19. The club were originally told it had been moved to 3pm in order to allow Mildenhall star Lewis Blackbird to also ride at Leicester at 7.30 in the Premier League. That would also have frees Heathens aces Adam Roynon and Ashley Morris and agreement had been reached between Dudley and Workington for them to do both. Now, it seems Heathens will be forced to go into the meeting without Roynon, Morris and Tom Perry who is in the European Grass Track Final. Heathens are refusing to comment until they are given a reason why the change has been made. http://www.dudleyhea....php?extend.611 The Mildenhall fixtures page was updated at 23:22 Sunday 5th August, shortly after the club's shock home defeat at the hands of Stoke. Is that a coincidence (just to update scores) or a conspiracy (to deny the Heathens a chance to use Royno/Ash)? http://www.mildenhal...p/fixture-lists Whatever the truth behind it the fans are the ones that miss out on seeing two top teams going at it, which is a real shame. EDIT - It's correct to say that Tom Perry would be unavailable that day whatever the start time.

Cracking performance again. We can point to a few things such as though mentioned above where a few points slipped away, but Stoke could point to a few subdued performances. All-in-all the few points we let slip are cancelled out really by Birks and Lambert not winning as many heats as you would usually expect. Heat 1 by Perry was a cracking race under somewhat tricky circumstances. How he managed to mentally block out the broken suspension and go wheel-to-wheel with Lambert I'll never know. Heat 12 was a race of the night though. Full credit to all three riders for the part they played. Fingers crossed we can keep everyone fit and healthy to the end of the season with a minimal number of dates clashing with other commitments.

Fairy Nuff - just assumed it was league meetings.

Roynon has only completed 5 league meetings and Perry has completed just 4 league meetings, both having missed meetings due to PL commitments. Incidentally, Perry is missing again tomorrow as Somerset are at Ipswich.

1) Yes it is. The riders get paid to do a job. 2) Of course not. PL and EL are a higher level and the money riders can earn reflects that, just like many a profession. Do Premier League footballers get paid only what a Division 2 player earns? 3) In what way? 4) No he's not, otherwise he wouldn't have been struggling at PL level and wouldn't have been dropped. He's a very good rider at NL level but has not progressed beyond average PL rider at his best. There's nothing wrong with that - it's his level. 5) I suggested a small surplus is no bad thing not that there are a large number waiting the wings. 6) Nonsense. One final question. Who should Stoke have signed as a number 1 to replace the unfortunate Richie Worrall?

Without studying averages and who's available this seems the most logical move. It's probably about the only move that would keep Stoke competitive for the rest of the season. The interesting thing now is do Stoke simply replace Pickard with the points remaining, 5½, or drop a 3 pointer and split the 8½ two ways? Again, I'm not sure who's available on a 4-5½ point average from last season. Somebody having a tough PL season on a low 3.something could be an option to DU. Incidentally, if I were a Stoke fan I'd be disappointed to see Pickard go but I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's a numbers game and he's the one not living up to expectations at the moment. He's been around a while so he'll understand, I'm sure, and I don't think it'll be long before one of the weaker NL clubs take a punt on him regaining last seasons form. The NL is a professional league just as the PL and EL is. It'll do young Brits no harm whatsoever to learn things don't get handed on a plate. A small surplus of riders at all levels is no bad thing. Riders need to know there are others waiting to step in if they do not score the points expected of them. It should drive them on and likewise those waiting in the wings will push harder to get their chance.

I was paraphrasing, It wasn't meant to be seen as a direct quote. I was only referring to last night in response to the following which I read to mean that you, like I, felt that there was never likely to be a chance of them taking a point away from the meeting. I think the fact that they did beat Stoke shows two things. Firstly, and most importantly, they are capable of more and can be a very decent unit on their day. Also, I think it shows that the Heathens are dominant at the moment. Buxton don't have to look back far for a little comfort. In the early part of last season we beat them with a bit to spare. By the latter part of the season they beat us on our track, and did so with great ease. Such is the way with this league. Riders can improve suddenly and dramatically or confidence can be completely shattered just a quickly. It's the reason I'm so guarded against getting carried away with results so far.

Ahh somebody that knows what happened in heat 1. Standing almost in line with the start gate I had no idea. Glad you enjoyed the evening, and thanks for the best wishes. It was the race of the season for me. Places were swapped a number of times. Ash and Rob were very close to each other a few times, but were controlled and fair to each other by leaving enough room to race hard but safely. Despite the scoreline there were some good races, though obviously quite a lot were comfortable for the Heathens lads. Tom, Ash, Byron and Darryl all had at least one good ride coming through from the back, with James and Dan involved in heats with passing too. I'd be happy to see Rob added the GH line-up but places are quite limited. I know Richie and Micky Dyer are in and I think Smarty may get an invite that I doubt he'll turn down. I suspect some other former Heathens riders from the last couple of years might get an invite too. I'd like to see a really strong field so I'm hoping we'll see as many as possible out of the like of Garrity (we love to boo him - lol), Hughes, Birks, Heeps etc. That's a good post with a few points well made. I would just like to add that although there was nothing more than a ripple of acknowledgement for the Buxton riders on parade there was plenty of appreciation for them once the action got under way. Each of the fallers were applauded for the attempts to clear the track and there was applause for Richard as he got up and walked away from his nasty looking crash. On the flip side to your comment that they were on a hiding to nothing I would say that the Buxton lads can go into meetings against the stronger teams with absolutely nothing to lose. There's no pressure or expectation on them. Anything they get out of it is a bonus, and quite a significant one too. I was genuinely disappointed for Ryan, for example, when he fell on the last lap while third. For 3¼ laps he'd ridden a better race than Dan, because Dan screwed up the first turn. It would have been reward for the undoubted effort he was putting in. Hopefully he learns from it though, and next time he's in a similar position he'll just settle down and complete the race safely. And when that happens it could prove a vital point for his club and the experience against the Heathens will have proven a worthwhile one. As I said recently I have nothing but respect for what Buxton do up there so my best wishes to the club and everyone involved. Fingers crossed it won't be too long until they drop on the right riders at the right time and have another good season like 2010. -------------------------------- As for the Heathens riders, well what can I say. Stunning form at the moment. The lads are just riding on the crest of a wave. The biggest problem for Nigel, Patch, Will and Jan O is making sure they keep the lads well grounded and don't let any sort of complacency start to creep in. There are some other good teams and some very good riders around. There are tougher tests to come and still a long way to go. This form will mean absolutely nothing if there's no more silverware by the end of the season. The riders must stay focussed. But for today, put your feet up and enjoy it lads.

I absolutely respect others' right to an opinion. If you don't like the rules then moan about the SCB. There's no point aiming you wrath at Roynon, the Heathens, the NL, British Speedway or the BSPA. I'm still staggered that anyone would moan about a young Brit, and yes he's still young, taking advantage of the rules to further his injury-interrupted career. I still haven't seen a response as to who people think has missed out on a team place because of Roynon. Which young Brit should the Heathens have signed in his place? The comment about Ward in the EL is absolutely relevant. The comment was made that Roynon taking points off the younger Brits was 'like taking candy from a baby'. Well the same could be said about Ward and the EL. What chance of our young Brits got in the EL when Ward's average in that league is the same as Roynon's in the NL, and likewise at that level Ward is beating them by ¼ lap? Do you read comments from EL fans that they want the EL weakened to the lowest denominator or strengthened to a higher standard? The only way to get better is ride against riders that are better and quicker than you are. It gives you a target.

So still no praise for the league or the young riders that are progressing well I see. Nor an answer to the genuine question as to whose place Roynon has taken in the league this season. Without him the Heathens would have signed an equally, or more, experienced 9-pointer as we needed a number 1. If Roynon riding the NL is 'like taking candy from a baby' perhaps we should boot Ward out of the EL because they're both averaging around 10½ this season? Doubt I'll get an answer to that either!

I'm certainly not the one that doesn't get it. People are saying that the NL is not supposed to be for riders like Adam, it's for young riders and those that perhaps can get around a track well enough but are never going to make it at a higher level. I've highlighted the achievement of those type of riders in the Heathens team, and there are many other for the other clubs. All we ever hear is moaning about Roynon and not praise for the form Tom, Ash, Dan and Darryl (in particular for us) have shown recently. The reason I said you could take Roynon's points off our total and we've still have won is specifically to highlight that these lads are riding that well at the moment. The league and the club are producing young riders that are progressing well. As to the point of Roynon's experience when compared to Woffy, as the example given, well what nonsense. Woffy has not suffered serious injury, thankfully, and has progressed quickly up the ladder from the NL, through the PL to the EL and into the SGP and SWC. Roynon's record in the same period (some of which I had to double-check on the BSPA website) is as follows: 2006 - Broken ankle 2007 - Recovered from broken ankle and rebuilt his confidence in what I believe was a season that passed without further injuries. 2008 - By the end of May his season was over with a leg broken in 5 places. 2009 - Pre-season crash resulting in the life-threatening head injuries and a broken bone in his neck. Didn't ride all season. 2010 - Refused permission to DU because he hadn't ridden the previous season. In Apr his PL club produced a Dr's note out of the blue that stated Adam was unfit to ride until further notice. I'm sure we all remember the storm that surrounded this incident. Luckily Adam picked up a team place quite quickly but by May he was out with a broken ankle and also had knee ligament damage. Another season ruined. 2011 - By the time Adam had completed just five meetings for the Heathens (not sure of the number PL fixtures in that time), two of which were only challenge meetings, Adam was out with a broken femur. This was in late Apr. Adam returned last July for the Golden Hammer at Dudley 'Wood' and I think rode just one further meeting for the Heathens in early Aug before it became apparent he couldn't continue to ride for us. He did ride in the last few weeks of the season at PL level though. Not only has Adam been arguably the most unlucky rider in World Speedway with regard to injuries but he was also very unlucky to get caught up in the sport's red tape and controversy in 2010. Adam is only 23, though he's been a professional speedway rider for quite a long time compared to the youngsters starting out. But to say he's got 7 years of experience behind him is not really true. What the above shows quite clearly is that Adam actually has little experience for a rider his age (who did not did not come to the sport late). This is the first time in 5 years that he's got as far as June without picking up a serious injury!! He's riding this league for one season only to rebuild his fitness and confidence, and as evidenced by some of his scores for Worky and Cov it's working. Had Adam got through to this point of last season without injury he would not be riding NL this season as his average would have been too high. Likewise, now he's getting himself to something like the form and fitness his raw talent deserves he will not ride NL next season. The sport's team building is entirely dominated by its stats. The SCB have produced the rules with regard to averages and whatever a rider's average is is what it is. Adam's average allowed him to start the season in the NL. You can't start making exceptions due to who the rider is. As for riders like Roynon taking another rider's place - well whose place in the NL has Adam taken this season? If anyone is suggesting the Heathens should have named another 3-pointer instead of a number 1 and started 6 points under the points limit then that's just ridiculous.

You should be embarrassed making that comment. Stealing kids pocket money. Seriously?! And how much experience has Adam actually got? He's been a professional speedway rider for a number of years now, but how many have been injury-free (and I mean that relatively speaking as all riders pick up some knocks throughout the year)? How many times has Adam completed say 6 months of the season? On what grounds and what action should they take? Why is Adam where he is at this stage of his career? ------------------------------------------ This is no longer a source of general annoyance I find it extremely disrespectful to the rest of the Heathens squad. Off the top of my head there have been 5 or 6 occasions where you could take Adam's score off the team total and we'd still have won. Adam often, I'd even say mostly, gives up heat 15 to the other members of the team. I can't remember how many times but off the top of my head I don't think he's ridden a heat 15 when the meeting is over as a contest. I'm sure any member of the Heathens squad will tell you how much they're learning from Adam, respect him as a captain and enjoy riding with him. What about a few stats from all the Heathens meetings this season - taken from the Dudley Heathens website. Tom Perry started on 5.89 and is averaging 9.19. He has also upped his start figure of 3.00 in the PL too. It's only his third year in speedway and has already made a World U21 Semi Final and took the silver medal in the British U21 Final, only narrowly missing out on winning it with a superb effort in the final heat. Ashley Morris started on 6.63 and is averaging 7.93. He started slightly shaky but has impressed enough in recent weeks to get outings in the PL and EL. He's scored in each of those outings and I believe those that have seen him ride in those meetings have been very impressed and reported his performances were perhaps worthy of more points than show on the scorecard. Dan Greenwood started on 3.00 and is averaging 6.04. Apparently he worked three jobs to be able to get back into the sport and is showing good form already. The lad clearly has some talent and has been a big miss for the NL in the last couple of years. He's due to jump straight up in to the top five for us at the first attempt as soon as the averages come out. Darryl Ritchings started on 4.29 and is averaging 5.06. Darryl started a little below par too, but he's a shy lad and is slow to speak up if there are any problems with his set-up apparently. Some problems have been noted and hopefully Darry is now well on his way to sorting things out as the last week saw an improvement in form. Certainly enough that Somerset named him as number 8 a couple of times, though he wasn't called upon. (James and Byron have not enjoyed such success yet but there are positive signs and both have contributed very well at one time or another to an important meeting result.) These, the first four, are the type of riders you are all saying the league should be about but not once have seen or heard a single positive word for them or the way the Heathens are helping them to progress. If you're all so hell-bent on seeing some young Brits do well then get behind the ones that are regardless of club loyalty. Not showing support and respect to these riders really does make a complete mockery of the whining and complaining about Adam. Young Brits are getting chances and are impressing. You're just too wrapped up yourselves to have noticed.

Do you think fans will walk away and not return due to this one bad result? We had an awful run of results last season. Week after week, with one or two exceptions, in the second half of the season we were comprehensively beaten both home and away. Several times we lost by more than we scored. Nobody walked away because of it, certainly not in any significant number (perhaps there were one or two - who knows?!). You support your team through thick and thin. That's what being a fan is all about. Buxton won the league just two years ago, they're not exactly a club struggling year-on-year to succeed.