Hacksaw Jim Duggan

Oh is that so...

As daft as Poland and Sweden……there is an irony in using Poland and Polish fans affinity to their team as an example of what should happen in the UK when the same riders who ride in that Polish team race for other clubs and “sleep with other women”….daft indeed.

The notion and idea written by some re them only being bound to a club if they know full well that side only contains riders who solely ride for that team is further obliterated by the fact that riders like Adams, Lyons and Louis – riders considered by many to be one club men didn’t just ride for “one club” they regularly, to use an analogy, went around the continent sleeping with other women – yet it seemed that form of cheating was ok and disbelief could be suspended then….this regulation and the idea of riders racing for more than one team isn't new.

In your own words "it's one of the major disasters that's happened in our sport in the last 20 years" - it simply isn't one of the major disasters that's happened to the sport in the last 20 years.

A slightly crass and hyperbolic comment given things that have actually happened in the sport in the last 20 years – riders passing away, riders seriously injured and track closures – the actual disasters of the sport, a minor rule alteration isn’t even close to such things in the grand scheme of things - it fades into insignificance. Difficult to afford any point credibility when some will go to such extreme lengths to try and prove a point.

Absolutely! A stance promotions have been taken by creating a wider range of choice, and thus preventing the need to beg a lower number of individuals to meet their needs – if you reduce the number of individuals you have to rely on (to fill a 1-7) you become a beggar….

How?

I find the idea this could become a regular occurrence slightly farfetched You would need to be a pretty big earner and pretty big hitter to be able to pick and choose your meetings and chances to earn.

It’s a mythology that died out a while ago re the location of riders and in particular foreign talent –the statement of retention of foreign riders who use this country as a stepping stone just doesn’t ring true now, it doesn’t happen that often - they have already been cut out of the product. It is a dated idea that stopped about 2 or 3 years ago at least – the riders who race here are loyal to racing in this country. These days it is just as likely it will be a Lambert or Bewley missing a meeting to compete on the continent in a Junior Competition which is a fantastic thing for British Speedway and something fans would be slightly selfish to see those kids deprived of just for their own wish to see 1-7 riders each and every single week. A difficult thing for a promotion to position re season ticket sells – if it is stripped down to such a level a Swindon fan for example could say a season ticket was bought on the proviso they would see Doyle each week, if Doyle breaks his leg after week 2 – the fan can then claim they are not getting what they expected…..these though are the nuisances of sport as is the likelihood of a Lambert progressing further than expected in junior competitions etc and so on. I for one would hate to see such riders frozen out just to accommodate fans wishes in such instances. It would defeat the entire purpose and premise of things and feel like a total dumbing down of the product and affording nothing as a selling point and see a recycling of riders once they reached a level of talent and were then told to sod off continually, a vicious cycle in all honesty. If the wish is to strip the league back to a level where there is riders of a lower level of talent who turn up the National League is a decent indicator of the level of sport many should expect, hardly a thriving product that validates the claims of some re the wish to see the same faces most weeks.

That already happens at the majority of tracks in the top division - the big nasty foreign riders stopped being an issue and the proposed bogeyman many portray them as re the wrongs of British Speedway years ago now outwith the odd exception (Holder) an issue not overly different to that caused by the current British Champion post Cardiff re questionable attendance at meetings. As a general rule most additions from the continent are made when sides are desperate ( Przedpelsk) or, it is riders who are loyal to this country and the tracks they ride for - Lindgren, Thorsell, Andersen, Doyle - riders that it would be foolish to freeze out as doing so would only further isolate fans and drive people away. There has clearly been a conscious decision to freeze out foreign riders - hence why the top flight is now packed with predominantly local based talent – it hasn’t made the slightest bit of difference to attendances to be fair….if anything it has gotten worse and increased the need for doubling up.....an irony clearly lost on some - more so given the removal of the rule would then increase the need for foreign talent again to fill team spaces rather than reduce the numbers required.

If Rye House make the Play-Offs they will win the league I think. They have the mix of a side who look like they would win the league in a Play Off Competition, the sleeves up attitude you need from their British contingent and that little bit of star dust sprinkled on there in Kasparzak.

How was the meeting? What races and incidents stood out for you?

I am just asking a question.... you have said the same thing three times in one post - I thought it was a game....no need to be so uppity.

Are you having a competition with yourself to see how many ways you can say Poole are favourites for 4th?

People really need to build a stronghold of opinion of the wider audience before imposing their views of common sense on everyone and assuming all fans wish to see such changes as well.. I’d be more inclined to think most fans who have walked away from the sport in recent years couldn’t care less about gardening, upright engines and second half racing – and I doubt altering such things would entice them back – small, minor, quick and easy changes they might be but they are not the kind of thing that will shift the needle attendance wise or how most people now feel about the sport.

So investing all efforts into one marketable league with 8 teams and doing so at the expense of a league with 10 teams, 10 sets of fans, 10 clubs accounts, finances and budgets – that doesn’t make sense.

Yes guests used in relation to doubling up....you know the subject of the thread - the thing being spoken about on the thread - the thing i was talking about in the post you quoted You cant actually be this stupid can you? Actually dont answer that - in fact dont reply at all - i cant lower myself to your idiocy any longer it hurts my brain engaging with you.

Again....a post in reply to a question about riders who double up where i answered talking about riders who double up - read that slow if it helps. Just to reiterate the only person talking about guests for Jason Doyle is you - an entirley different situation to the thread....

Emmm no....its a thread about doubling up riders where I was asked about the doubling up rule - why would I be talking about guests for Jason Doyle.....

To my knowledge Jason Doyle isn’t a double up rider…..might have missed that though….

Or just make a point that’s actually valid

You said many British riders don’t have a team as a result of averages, that is patently not true irrespective of how sweeping and general the point was.

About 15 years ago....it is a clutch of riders now at best – out with Joe Jacobs I am struggling to think of any other Brit who was left on the side-lines.

Yes, that’s correct….it wasn’t the struggle you thought it was, you should give yourself more credit.

No – the situation I position is far from being perfect it is idiocy of anyone to assume the exact words they post are the ideal solution to this situation, it isn’t an ideal situation - Chapman himself has said that and is aware of it, anyone discussing the current structure, rules, regulations and rider shortage are also aware of it hence they don’t position what they say as being perfect - it is for the time being a workaround, any proposal would be that. The question you pose ARE the exact reason why there is doubling up yes - hence I would see the situation remain as it is with minor alteration as there isn’t going to be the widespread of riders who wish to race here who will resolve the issue – I said I would prefer a retention of the current standard. I haven’t once mentioned riders coming from abroad, I accept an increase in quality at this time isn’t likely. The minor changes would be in relation to where guests and replacements could be pulled from e.g sides chasing Play Off Places in the Premiership having to use replacements from the Championship if need be rather than riders from other teams in their league competing for the same place - a tightening of who could be used in such instances would help IMO. I don’t think the “quality” I reference is in anyway machinery related, the current standard of rider is the quality fans will look for e:g a Newcastle fans will wish to see a rider the quality of Robert Lambert race for them, not his removal from their side and his place taken by a rider the quality of Shelby Rutherford. Or riders the quality of Starke, Wright etc being taken from the Championship, fans of that league wouldn’t even be getting that in the proposed league of 50% reduction in quality I quoted earlier – I was addressing that post, that is what I see an issue - continually stripping back the standard of rider on show and expecting crowd numbers to even remain the same, that evidently is not working - people are not going to swallow rubbish which would be the case if the standard of rider on show continues to decrease. The one big league you reference isn’t viable – there isn’t the numbers for that and if riders had such restrictions placed on them, and their earnings as those you wish to impose they would tell promotions in this country to run and jump or wish for a higher cost in order to compensate for potential loss of earnings all the while the issue would be the promotions would still require those riders to fill their team. I am not talking about the continent, paying excessive wages to the top stars in the world etc and so on – those days are clearly not viable, nor is it viable to simply put on a show of utter dross and expect fans to pay for it – there has to be some sort of standard on show in order to attract fans AND IN THE POST I QUOTED that isn’t what is being offered forward as a proposal - some of the points you have raised, made points and counter points to are clearly what you feel and think but they are totally moot to me and the post I have chosen to engage with....