Hacksaw Jim Duggan

An element of Nazism wishing to ban people based of what they think and feel is there not.

The question in the OP is about losing interested, how much more interest can you lose? I am not judging you for it - just pointing out you haven’t attended a meeting for 12 years – that’s not a in process loss of interest, that is a ship sailed. Appreciate you make historical commentary on the sport though, I mean it isn’t like you can talk about much in its recent history is it.

Oh I don't doubt you are interested in this forum, but you haven't attended a speedway meeting since 2005 - 12 years ago, that's not the actions of someone who has an interest in a thing, or is losing in interest in a thing - that is the actions of someone who lost interest in a thing about 12 years ago.

I was slightly perplexed to read the first two replies were from posters who between them haven't attended a speedway meeting for the best part of 25 years!!! That's not an interest lost - that is just people who attend speedway as often as someone who claims they still shop in Woolworths!

When you consider how heavily backed they were by some at the start of the season and then throw in the addition of Kasparzak to that – this season has been an abject failure.

I appreciate the logic in that but outwith injury how many meetings will most sides Number 1 rider miss across a season? I would hazard a guess that injury is the only reason either Doyle or Lindgren are likely to miss a meeting – in such instances a guest should be an option – injury to Number 1. Other than that a squad is viable I think, Aaron Summers as an example could be part of a squad and step in to replace any second or third highest averaging rider in a Championship side without a massive drop in quality, or at least not to the point it would render a meeting a non-contest. Paul Starke to use an example being used as a guest for numerous sides in the Premiership when he already had a Premiership and Championship side feels slightly silly to me when riders the likes of the afore mentioned Summers, Doolan, Busk Jakobsen, Ostergaard could be used rather than another clubs rider from the same league (Starke) I appreciate issues around averages etc and so on but it might be time to drop such hard and fast rules and allow sides a bit of flexibility in the instances of their squad members at least – or possibly have Grade A riders to step in for riders placed 2/3 in the averages and Grade B for riders places 4-7 in the averages. If these squad members were used in the instanced of fixture clashes only it would remove the feeling of sides being manipulated for an advantage.

It pretty much happens now anyway

Guests and R/R should go – widen out DU to accommodate wider squads so other DU squad riders can come in rather than guests and R/R.

For someone so enthused by correcting spelling and grammar that’s quite a simpletons view to take.

Or it showed 53% don’t think it should be scrapped…

Wait…you mean….no surely not!! You mean to tell me that not every single speedway rider who races a bike will reach the level of Crump and Rickardson!...I am in shock at that!! He races in Britain, he is a young British kid wishing to be the best he can be – if his level was to improve, his profile would and in theory the profile of the sport would – as a young British kid racing a speedway bike he vicariously represents British Speedway – the two things should go hand in hand – his point is reasonable. If he gets better he becomes a draw who attracts fans, it worked with the likes of Loram etc - there is a chicken and egg scenario to that entire situation. As much as the sport is watered down there will always be value in those who compete they will never just be things who are told to shut up, compete, enjoy it and never ask for more - thus there is little point in attempting to work a sport with the idea that might happen - there has to be a bend and flexibility on both sides. The poll reflects the views of those who follow the thoughts of the person who posted it, in general Twitter will regress back to people who share the views of those they consciously follow – thus the lion’s share of those who took part likely share the thoughts of the person who posted the poll…and even accounting for that Doubling Up still couldn’t muster the % required to favour a win in favour of scrapping it – so yeah, I am very indifferent to what twitter polls show to be honest.

Oh sure to you I don’t doubt that for a second you think that!!! but then again, you have just evidenced in your last few posts that taking on board the points of others and what they actually say is a serious issue for you so I will get over you thinking the same in relation to my posts quite quickly.

I don’t… I absolutely don’t - but people at least deserve to be afforded the platform of the things they actually say.

Ah ok so on the premise of one rider messaging publically – where he didn’t actually reference the fans and others who “DM’d you” - you are going to attempt to portray that speedway riders as a whole don’t care about fans, or the sport and fans should find something else to do? Despite no one actually being seen to make that point? Worrall in fact makes the point – publically, for people to see, and in response to you about subjects such as number of matches being an issue, his wish to compete for his country at a higher level and his wish to improve as a speedway rider, not all of the points made are money related. The very root of most speedway riders existence and reasoning for taking up the sport, is to become the best they can be and compete at the level Worrall states – to become the best, or as good as one can be - that isn’t a hobby…..Crump, Rickardson etc didn’t take on the sport and compete at hobby level, there is validity in the point he is making – again to you.

Other than Steve Worrall what other riders have replied that made you jump over the Grand Canyon to that conclusion?

A one league structure with set race nights wouldn’t work for obvious reasons. A one league structure where clubs retain their race nights e.g Berwick, Glasgow, Workington, Newcastle – leads a to a league where numerous riders would miss meetings due to commitments on the continent clashing with weekend tracks and escalate costs for clubs having to accommodate additional travel needs, getting riders to the tracks on a Saturday and to the continent on time on a Sunday in the instances when they could fit in a Saturday meeting This doesn't just extent to top riders like Doyle, Lindgren and Cook, they sure aren't accountable in a one league structure so might as well remove them from team suggestions - it extends to riders who are supposed to fill their calendar by finding teams places in Poland While fixture planning to accommodate said tracks could be accounted for to minimalize clashes - it leaves next to no wriggle room should the country encounter poor weather – which often happens and leads to a backlog of fixtures. It also doesn’t fully consider the logistics of National Events, World Cup week and Cardiff running on a Saturday which further limits the option of weekends where weekend tracks could run and face full strength teams It would likely only end up the exact same issue apparently irking so many now…guests, R/R and riders missing – only it would cost clubs a fair bit more for the privilege and likely see the riders the country would need to fill teams asking for more due to the increased premium required to ride here and possibly turn down larger money on the continent. A lot of these exercises would escalate costs at a time when that is the last thing the sport needs. Sticking riders in teams is a fun exercise but it doesn't account for actual issues and costs involved in putting riders in teams.

I don’t think it has to correlate to “injury” – it is possible the better riders take evasive action as a result of the talents of lesser riders.

On occasion it does, riders do override – while Doyle as an example is indefinitely better than those riders you mention it doesn’t mean he doesn’t ever at any stage of a season encounter them, and on occasion encounter them overriding and desperate on what he feels are poorly prepared tracks….I can see why that would be a cause for concern to be honest.

The disparity in talent is a thing – this was openly acknowledged in recent years with an altered race format. It is a problem when riders are competing with others who are better than them, I don’t see why that particular statement is such an issue – there is validity in it. This would only become a greater issue in a league where riders don’t have the chance to double up/down and have little chance of income against riders who are not just a bit better than them, but in a theoretical one league system, far greater.

That is part of the point Doyle is making….. but it being dismissed by some based on what are seemingly quite arse backwards motives, or mind-sets. "I can post about Speedway on here all I wish and say how crap the tracks, poor the league structure is etc but how dare a rider say that same thing". Weird.

sorry, someone beat me to it in a very worded post.

I seem to be in the minority but I don’t mind the newer TS rule. I found the older rule equally unfair and while there is a misty eyed idea of juniors turning over heat leaders, it rarely happened – what more often happened was a visiting Number 1 would blast away and typically win Heat 8 by a mile in a race massively stacked in their favour and displacing another rider from the race in the process. My natural assumption is riders on a Double Points sub have been turned over far more often than Tactical substitutes were. I also feel there is something more satisfying in seeing a side kill the rule of double points when it is used.

When you read the alternative solutions and see riders like Garcia and Bukkhave floated as the solution it drives home the idea that Doubling Up is the lesser of two evils. In a theoretical situation where Craig Cook is “exclusive” to Belle Vue and Sam Masters is “exclusive” to Wolverhampton but Edinburgh have the privilege of replacing Masters with Garica and Workington Cook with Bukkhave all you do is knock more paying fans of the gate at Edinburgh and Workington without doing enough considerable needling shifting attendance wise elsewhere - such a thing wouldn't bring fans back at either track, it would only further drive fans away. The idea of I just want 1-7 of my own is great until you realise how crap the alternative is - even if the likes of Garcia did wave at fans, socialise etc each week.....

Some form of extended squad system feels the most viable alternative to me. It would mean a return to some form of , dreaded, draft system - but something along the lines of sides sign their 1-7 and then pick from a pool of unsigned to make up their squad. The additions would need to meet certain criteria. Swindon for example would have a pick of all remaining riders from Friday, Saturday and Sunday – but no two riders from one team to complete a 9/10 man squad – riders 8-10 would then be used in instances of clashes and remove the over use of R/R and guests from competing sides, in an attempting to move back to a familiarity of riders for the fans – riders racing for them should at least be their riders, and a squad would feel more like that than guests and R/R. The downside for some riders would be being part of a squad where they might not feature often, but that wouldn’t overly differ to this year for some as the final picks would be a low standard and riders who rarely feature in the Premiership as it is. The variance in number of meetings between some riders must be staggering, that feels like an issue that needs resolved – it doesn’t sit right with me that a Danny King as an example seems to ride most weeks while someone like Aaron Summers doesn’t – instances like this could be better managed. It is a difficult situation, it needs adjusted and manipulated rather than a complete scrapping of it - scrapping it means a club on the edge of attendance failure like Workington are stripped of riders like Cook and Jorgensen, I am not sure that solves attendance and finance issues in the way some might think it will - if anything it feels like pulling the plug on the life support machine to me at a time when it isn't entirely necessary.

Can you explain how, or when that changed and what it has to do with the rule? At most tracks in the country fans can still talk and socialise with riders – so where in particular does that not apply, what exact promotions no longer grasp this or prevent fans and riders from doing this?