STEVEHOLS54

Agree with you there Starman. If we think its bad on here its nothing compared to the complete cra* posted on the thread of our beloved "Chris Holder". Getting on for 300 posts as I look on there daily looking for news about Chris and comments relating to his next club. Which we all know its near enough certain it's Kings Lynn. You would never believe the subject is about Chris as most of it is idiots slagging each other off with no relation to the subject matter. Out of those near 300 posts/comments very few of them are about Chris. So damned depressing and totally out of order that its some of the usual back biters having a pop at each other with nothing about Chris to do with it.

I saw on a Polish Speedway site that Jack has signed for Torun, but a chance he won't get a regular run out in Torun as they have one too many seniors. There was talk of MAYBE loaning him out to a Nice PL 1 team for next season. If that's the case problem is the Nice teams have all their riders signed so maybe at least May before he can transfer in if anyone wants him. The article said he will be given a chance in the normal Polish pre season friendlies to see how he stands up to competing, and then they will decide if they loan him out or put him in the first team. He is restricted a bit as they can only have 5 seniors (multi national) plus 2 Polish juniors. I think his signing is one for the future for Torun due to his brother Chris's connection with the club plus the early potential he has shown. A bit like Brady Kurtz. Stahl Gorzow wanted him but can't fit him in on a guaranteed team berth this year so he has extended with Polonia Pila for next year. Depending on how he develops in 2017, if he goes forward a good chance that Gorzow will sign him. (May already be a gentleman's agreement in place). That would put him in same team as a Mr K.Kasparzak for 2018 ;-)

Lets hope all 3 do but at worse I would take 2 of them reading as it does presently. The die is set for 2017 so let's get on with it but I do hope that the BSPA and individual promoters bang heads together during the season to come up with something workable for 2018 otherwise our sport will descend into farce. For me its one big league with a KO and maybe even a league cup style comp as they had in old PL last season. just knocking thoughts around. I am also sure the powers that be could com up with a sensible idea on team strengths/points limits and let the promoters work within their budgets. No different to other sports. Money will always play its part just as we have the Man Utd/City - Honda/Suzuki - Mercedes/Red Bull/Lotus situations plus smaller teams. Ultimately in Speedway it is still only 4 riders per race and you will never have 4 World Class stars in a race with the points limits so we would still get racing we all want to see - experience - middle order - lower order - youth. Is it really so difficult if the sport wants to fight for its existence/future. Also means clubs in Scotland would see a Poole just as we would see them down in the South. Anyway I will hope we win the league and KO Cup in 2017 while seeing exciting racing and exciting young talent,and keep my fingers crossed my thoughts bear fruit for 2018.

Yes only a short time now before we run out of things to discuss on who may/may not sign. As we draw to team conclusion at Poole and have a period of calm, the real car crash seems to be going on at Coventry who may not even race the way its going, plus the doubts as to what's going on at Leicester and how will B.Vue pan out. Now we are drawing to a team close I find the real action is going on with these forums as fans get worried/frustrated/angry at the way our sport seems to be getting dragged down the toilet. In a way I hope we go for a stronger 16/18 team league and not have a Prem/Champ. I can see it heading that way and maybe better for the sport. There will always be the have's and have not's but no different to any other major motor sport or football (Moto GP/Formula 1/European Football. That's the way life is. The main thing is to have as many as viably strong clubs as we can with exciting racing. In its current format its falling apart IMO and that can't be good for Speedway. Much as I like Poole there isn't much point if its against hardly any clubs going forward. Of course I want to win the league and cups but its the stability and strength of the clubs going forward. Plus exciting racing. We had large leagues 1 & 2 in the seventies (my first meeting at Hackney in 1970 we had 19 teams lge 1 and 17 in lge 2 plus both lges had KO Cups) and I would rather have one strong league plus a feeder/nursery league like N/L than have what is currently 9 but could be 8/7 teams come March with so many doubts of what is going on. Also have a KO cup over 2 legs . I enjoy reading and contributing to the Poole Forum since I joined this forum 3/4 or so weeks ago, but find visiting some of the others so depressing for their fans as they don't know if they will have a club or not. Anyway the forum is all about opinion and that's mine. At least trial it.

To me if Horton is serious he has to make a statement of intent and not some wishy washy comments about having to see what state the stadium is in. Bottom line is all the basic equipment is gone and not coming back (IMO). Either he agrees he will cough up to put it right. He shouldn't be surprised his other arch villain of the pce has taken his assets and in effect said go to hell. He should have the ba**s to say he has not got the money to undo what has been done (and as quickly as possible) or inform his intent that he wants/intends to try and do something with whoever over at Leicester. Either that or get out the game and stop playing with fancy words that say nothing as to racing actually taking place at Coventry in 2017 or ever again. If Horton is a businessman he must have known this was coming and to conveniently be out of the Country on the deadline date re fixtures and fittings etc kind of smells funny to me to have left himself open to such developments.

Maybe the time is fast approaching to have one big league and a nursery/junior league such as the National league. The P/L (now Champ) clubs seem to have it fairly well dialled in as have a few of the new Prem league teams such as Poole/Wolves/Somerset/hopefully Swindon with the new track etc. I am sure these statasticians could come up with an idea that gives us one good and fairly strong league. Of course there will always be the have and the have not's but is it any different in things like Football/Moto GP/Formula 1 etc. Doesn't stop teams racing and offering decent entertainment. We have to accept surely that Speedway fast approaches a crossroads and do we really want a 5/6/7 team league where the same riders compete against each other week after week. There must be a way forward or I worry Speedway will be on its way out. Some of the negativity and amateur going on's around some of the clubs and lack of positive news concerning Coventry/Leicester/B.Vue is in some ways staggering even if it is still early days with over 3 months until racing again. It's all very well some individuals saying don't panic it will all be ok. Will it ??? Have we really seen anything come out that is giving real firm indications all 3 will be running. I fear not and forsee 1 maybe 2 if we are lucky of the 3 participating in 2017. I am sure a 16/17 team Prem league could be done combining experienced riders and talent without breaking the Bank. There will always be riders looking to do 3/4 leagues around Europe and providing they can earn reasonable money many would keep coming back. If that's not your flavour then employ UK/Australian talent with team of strength in depth so you get good racing. It surely has to be better than seeing it fall apart brick by brick with some tracks. We are presently at 9 clubs but at this rate we will be lucky to have 7 in the Prem.

Let's hope his next statement is more positive. It's not quite the "There will 100% be speedway at Coventry next year. Talk of "I need to see the damage myself" and "speedway still has a lease for 2017" is not the same as saying Speedway will definitely take place in 2017 at Coventry. I got accused by one of being negative so early in the close season. I am not a Coventry supporter but believe me I want them to run be it at Coventry or Leicester for the better of speedway. I just hope for the sake of the sport at least one of these promotions get their act together and get speedway on in at least one stadium and preferable two. As for the negative comments what does one expect when neither promotions has come out with a definitive answer on running in 2017, although I know its still early. The sport really doesn't deserve such negative publicity when it needs to pull together for its very survival.

Plus he meets a lot of these guys twice in a meeting. For me the important thing is he should insure we don't get turned over 1-5 in the reserve races. Anything above a 3-3 to me is a bonus in the early months as Shanes beds in and tries to pinch points off some of the not so good reserves. I am sure Matt Ford has covered the bases as mentioned in my earlier posts. Also riding in a good side should in itself help produce bonus points. Let's be honest. Near enough every club in new Prem would have liked this guy as a reserve which in itself is good enough for me.

For me its what he does at reserve which is the more important in the first 2 months of the season. I am sure come May he will move into the team allowing Newman/Kurtz or Holder to have a chance of some easy points. Okay maybe Klindts av will suffer when in the main body of the team but do we really care ?? If he does then he will go back to reserve and swing in and out of there in the season and for sure we all know he will score points in that slot just as Bjarne did which was why his av was also so high. Add to that that if any fixture clashes with DK I am sure Matt will be able to get a better quality guest or apply RR with a higher pool of riders available to use. I think this is a VERY clever signing by Matt Ford and you only have to look at his scores in the overseas leagues to see that Matt was no mug in his planning behind this move, not only getting him as a reserve to start but the permutations it offers going forward. Every other promoter could have signed him as it was a level playing field for all. Obviously the guy liked the idea of a fairly safe and secure pay check and place in the side without the pressure of having to prove being a heat leader. He will pick up plenty of points against inferior or more junior riders plus will ride for a team which has a proven winning mentality (hopefully). I stand by what I said in a lengthy earlier post that I think Mr Ford had this guy tied up on a deal long before the others who were probabaly still digesting the new regulations when they were voted on. Nice one Matt and further proof he is way ahead of most other promoters in forward thinking. Now we a wait all the conspiracy theorists and full time Poole haters/back biters to have their say. By the way last comments not aimed at you Gavin as you tend to have constructive comments even if you do have a pop now and then ;-)

Following my recent post just look at the below which was the year I was introduced to Speedway as a 16 year old. How our mighty sport has fallen when you look at the clubs there were in both divisions :-( 1970 BRITISH LEAGUE DIVISION 1 Team Mts Won Drn Lst For Agn Pts 1.BELLE VUE ‘Aces’ 36 27 2 7 1595½ 1205½ 56 2.Wimbledon ‘Dons’ 36 22 2 12 1506 1297 46 3.Coventry ‘Bees’ 36 22 1 13 1517½ 1287½ 45 4.Leicester ‘Lions’ 36 21 0 15 1423 1381 42 5.Poole ‘Pirates’ 36 20 0 16 1392 1409 40 6.Halifax ‘Dukes’ 36 19 1 16 1492½ 1313½ 39 7.Sheffield ‘Tigers’ 36 18 3 15 1414½ 1391½ 39 8.Glasgow ‘Tigers’ 36 18 1 17 1438 1367 37 9.Wolverhampton ‘Wolves’ 36 16 2 18 1371 1433 34 10.Exeter ‘Falcons’ 36 16 1 19 1369½ 1434½ 33 11.Hackney ‘Hawks’ 36 15 2 19 1369½ 1435½ 32 12.King’s Lynn ‘Stars’ 36 16 0 20 1359 1443 32 13.Oxford ‘Cheetahs’ 36 16 0 20 1360½ 1445½ 32 14.Wembley ‘Lions’ 36 15 2 19 1327½ 1474½ 32 15.Cradley Heath ‘Heathens’ 36 15 1 20 1351½ 1445½ 31 16.Swindon ‘Robins’ 36 14 2 20 1386 1418 30 17.Newcastle ‘Diamonds’ 36 15 0 21 1364 1444 30 18.West Ham ‘Hammers’ 36 14 2 20 1341½ 1463½ 30 19.Newport ‘Wasps’ 36 12 0 24 1258 1548 24 KNOCK-OUT CUP FINAL: Wimbledon 80 Belle Vue 75 BL DIV. 1 RIDERS' CHAMPIONSHIP: Barry Briggs (Swindon), 13 pts 1970 BRITISH LEAGUE DIVISION 2 Team Mts Won Drn Lst For Agn Pts 1.CANTERBURY ‘Crusaders’ 32 23 1 8 1384 1108 47 2.Eastbourne ‘Eagles’ 32 22 1 9 1364½ 1125½ 45 3.Rochdale ‘Hornets’ 32 21 2 9 1460 1020 44 4.Bradford ‘Northern’ 32 18 1 13 1355 1134 37 5.Teesside ‘Teessiders’ 32 18 0 14 1304 1186 36 6.Ipswich ‘Witches’ 32 17 2 13 1254 1236 36 7.Crewe ‘Kings’ 32 17 1 14 1305 1186 35 8.Romford ‘Bombers’ 32 17 1 14 1253½ 1231½ 35 9.Reading ‘Racers’ 32 17 0 15 1278½ 1211½ 34 10.Peterborough ‘Panthers’ 32 14 2 16 1191 1301 30 11.Workington ‘Comets’ 32 13 1 18 1245 1236 27 12.Rayleigh ‘Rockets’ 32 13 1 18 1155½ 1329½ 27 13.Boston ‘Barracudas’ 32 12 2 18 1144 1342 26 14.Crayford ‘Highwaymen’ 32 11 1 20 1153 1338 23 15.Doncaster ‘Dragons’ 32 11 1 20 1123½ 1361½ 23 16.Berwick ‘Bandits’ 32 10 0 22 1089 1400 20 17.Long Eaton ‘Rangers’ 32 8 3 21 1087½ 1400½ 19 Wd.King’s Lynn ‘Starlets’ 22 9 1 12 774 934 19 Wd.Nelson ‘Admirals’ 8 6 0 2 384 237 12 NOTE: Bradford took over from Nelson upon their withdrawal; Boston took over from King’s Lynn II upon their withdrawal. KNOCK-OUT CUP FINAL: Ipswich 80 Berwick 76 BL DIV. 2 RIDERS' CHAMPIONSHIP: Dave Jessup (Eastbourne), 14 pts

All of these recent posts just highlight the problems British Speedway has at what will be the new Prem level. What is being posted on the Coventry/Leicester and B.Vue forums is a concern for all. At this rate UK will eb the laughing stock of the developed Speedway World. At this moment there seems little confidence if any of the 3 teams will actually run. I hope in the very least we get 2 sensible operations going . Even if it did mean Coventry have to up sticks and do some kind of deal over at Leicester. As for B.Vue we can only hope that the comments from the BSPA bear fruit or it will indeed drag us into the farcical after all the comments about them taking the reins to try and resolve it. Depending on how this all pans out I think I would rather see just an extended league combining Prem/Champ with a sensible Cup comp in 2018, as the way things are going presently the sport is going slowly to the dogs with all the negativity coming forth in these forums. It is indeed a sad situation when you hear some of the comments on what may or may not be going on with some of the bastions of speedway such as Coventry and Belle Vue. These are clubs steeped in history and have always been looked upon as the strong since my first days of watching Hackney Wick back in 1970 when I was first introduced to Speedway as a 16 year old and have been a fan ever since. Clubs come and go over the years but these 2 teams were giants in the Speedway World and it will be sad if we lose them. Also Leicester even if not maybe as big a club in name and history terms as the others. Let's hope some sense prevails.

Maybe take a look at his last seasons Nice Polish av. Think we would all agree this league is at least the equiv (if not better) than our new Prem. 13 matches - 63 rides - av 1.825 per ride incl bonus = 7.30 match av Compare to a certain Mr Scott Nichols who is rated 2 places lower at 33 in the Polish Nice riders av 13 matches - 65 rides - av 1.80 per ride incl bonus = 7.20 match av. The obvious is that one is a no brainer at reserve in the new Prem and the second is now second heat leader at Rye House. Maybe he was not so hot in P/L last season but if I didn't know better I would say maybe he was privy to some inside info on how the team building was going to pan out this year using the old P/L averages ;-) Would be one hell of a conspiracy theory huh ??

IF Klindt does sign I would not be surprised if Matt Ford had an agreement in principal with the guy even before the promoters meeting took place. How ?? I am sure that the new proposals to revolutionise British Speedway wld have been put fwd to Promoters well before the AGM as would the discussions re teams moving up. There is no way these guys would have turned up cold and unprepared for the discussions ahead. I am sure that Matt would also have been aware that most of the have not's (not so financially secure clubs) would have been pushing for the new rules to reduce costs meaning on a vote he was always going to be outvoted. So we can assume Matt would have known well in advance that the new 50 point rule with EL rides av x 1.4 and Prem averages would be used for team building. Armed with this we as Joe Public were aware from the moment it was all announced that N.Klindt with 5.42 PL av and a new 8.90 EL (now Prem) av stood out like a beacon in team building terms. A whole 3.48 point swing and a potential killer signing be it at reserve or otherwise. Would not surprise me if the astute and quick thinking Matt already had an agreement in principal to bring him to Poole on the understanding that it was subject to the new rules being voted on at the AGM. That's my initial thought but then I thought - what about his Danish Club commitments as he has signed a deal as also captain for his team. Also race Wed night. Not so stupid as Matt can easily agree to let him do plenty of Danish matches. Why ?? Danish season in 2016 only started 4th May some 5/6 weeks after UK starts. Esbjerg only started on 11th May. Bearing in mind Matt plans to start him at reserve on his crazy low 5.42 Prem av he will quickly build up his av and will no doubt be out of the reserve berth by May. Not all bad news as the chances are that Messrs Newman/J.Holder or B.Kurtz will jump in to replace him. I am sure any club in Prem would give their right arm to have any one of the 4 as a reserve in the new format. This now means that Mr Klindt will have an average (probably) nearer a heat leader than reserve (when the new GSA are done after the new riders av come out in APR). I assume on this basis Matt Ford will then be able to employ a guest with a much higher av based on Klindt's new much higher av or at worse maybe have the opportunity at worse to have RR come in based on having a bigger number of riders available to fill the hole. Would not surprise me one little bit if our brilliant promoter has pulled a rabbit out of the hat and done the deal long before others even digested what the new rules meant. For sure nearly every Prem clubs forum mentioned Klindt as the man to have as soon as the news on the new points system was announced. If we as fans saw the hole then I am sure that Matt, who was streets ahead of us fans in having advanced info on it, would have already been doing his sums and maybe already agreed the deal. Of course all of this only my opinion and IF Klindt signs. If he does then I hope Matt did do the deal early and ahead of what many other promoters would like to have done. This is what sets him out as ahead of the rest in my opinion. Again all subject to IF Klindt signs ;-)

Just saw this comment on Wolves site which hav responded to. Beowulf, on 23 Nov 2016 - 12:50 PM, said: Don't be too hasty to dismiss. I would like him at Poole but checking his profile and doing some digging I see he has clubs signed for 2017 in Poland (Nice PL 1 so no restriction on countries he can ride) Sweden and even Denmark (Wed track). he has also been appointed Captain of his Danish team. If he signs for Poole my first thought was fixture clash on Wed as its difficult enough them trying to work around Hans Andersons Danish fixtures let alone a second Dane with same problem. I wonder if he may have been the Dane Matt Ford was referring to when he said he had tried to sign a Dane who had ridden UK before (unnamed) who most assume was Kenneth Bjere. He couldn't sign the unnamed Dane due to Danish fixture clashes. Maybe it was in fact Klindt who has the real attractive low average so one ace reserve possibility. It's just a thought.

Don't be too hasty to dismiss. I would like him at Poole but checking his profile and doing some digging I see he has clubs signed for 2017 in Poland (Nice PL 1 so no restriction on countries he can ride) Sweden and even Denmark (Wed track). he has also been appointed Captain of his Danish team. If he signs for Poole my first thought was fixture clash on Wed as its difficult enough them trying to work Hans Andersons Danish fixtures let alone a second Dane with same problem. I wonder if he may have been the Dane Matt Ford was referring to when he said he had tried to sign a Dane who had ridden UK before (unnamed) who most assume was Kenneth Bjere. He couldn't sign the unnamed Dane due to Danish fixture clashes.Maybe it was in fact Klindt who has the real attractive low average so one ace reserve possibility. It's just a thought.

We could all argue the rights and wrongs of riders who have come in all night but still on a C.Holder forum ??? Important thing is the future. The new rules on no riders signing after 31/7 will stop any of these dealings. Also with the new Polish EL rules re max 3 leagues incl your own national league will make sure that any of these top riders riding in Poland will for sure not drop Poland just to finish second half of the new watered down English Prem. We can but hope that is ;-)

Whether it be Klindt or T Kurtz or a good young Pole, I think maybe only until the first GS averages come out and then I can see either Newman/Holder or B Kurtz going into the reserve berth as our better number 6, whoever that be after our initial 6 racks up the points early. I am happy with whoever it is after the first GS average and for sure I expect Matt Ford to have also considered that. I can see anyone of them getting extra rides at reserve which I think will be a bonus as it has been over the past 3 seasons with the likes of Newman/Ellis/Starke. I'm sure he does as he sneaked a similar comment on one of the other teams forums today when Klindts name was mentioned ;-) Come on Skidder spill the beans or at least give us something even if in the form of a cryptic comment for us to work it out :-)

Mads has not managed to get signed up by any Polish Team from what I was reading on Sportowe Fakty last week. They ran an article on 6 riders (approx.) who had reasonable profiles who had not been able to get teams. That to me leaves him open to ride a full season with KL being a Thursday track and leaves him ok to ride in Sweden Tuesday and maybe also Denmark Wednesday. Would be a good rider for strength in depth.

I believe that side had a payment issue with all their riders incl Lindgren & Lindback. I think all them saw their backsides and have signed for new Swedish clubs in 2017 with better finances. Unless Niels is going to take on the Polish Authorities near enough alone then I really can't see his falling out with the people who pay by far his biggest pay check. There are not that many who ride Polish EL plus 3 other leagues. Anderson is one but he's not stupid as he rides in Nice PL1 where he can still do 4 leagues as they don't have the same 3 club ruling of which PL takes precedent plus max 2 other leagues of which one must be your national league i.e Danish in Niels case.

I agree. Maybe a year away will be good as dust may not have settled on his personal circumstances at home and one should not forget that his personal relationship situation at home was also connected to the team by family relationship. Apologies if I am wrong on that score but no doubt hardly condusive to a harmonious and peaceful situation at home or on the track. Chris in effect had two bombshell situations to contend with following the Darcy situation last year. Let's hope he can move on and we can see more of the real Chris Holder who is one of the most exciting racers we have been blessed with seeing in this country over the last 8 years.

Are you teasing again Skidder ;-) Nothing would surprise me Poole went for Klindt or Wozniak. You normally seem to be in the know so maybe you can spill some more. For the record I really do hope Leicester can get it together for 2017. Have read a lot of what seems internal politics on this clubs BSF and would be good if they can sort it out and let whoever runs it get on with putting a team together sooner rather than later when it may be a case of what's left after the other clubs have done their biz. Maybe not so many announced but do we really think a lot of them may not already be agreed/almost negotiated but are being held back on announcement for when it suits the clubs to gain max media exposure.

Much as I would love to see both JPB & JS riding down South I think that both would prefer a Northern Club due to where they both live. I think JPB may do Sheffield (already signed) and maybe another season in NL to continue getting the confidence as he won't get so many points in Prem. I would love to be wrong but being realistic. JS may be a similar story with his dad having BV in his blood. Just a question of which Northern Prem side he signs for and maybe a double up in NL again. Shanes already snapped up by Poole today so maybe one of the other two?? If Rye get JPB or JS then in my opinion they would have done well.

Something that hopefully the new rules re no changes after 31/7 will put a stop to ;-)

Hope that is true. If Poole are to sign a young Pole I think there are better options available. I think Cyfer has been around long enough riding for S.Gorzow and has not really progressed. The fact he has been dropped by them as he is now out of the Junior ranks and has had to drop into Nice PL indicates to me he will never be anything special or even as good as say K.Woryna. On subject of James Shanes I just spent some time this morning looking at some of his rides on 2 different Youtube Videos in Grass Track Championships. Have to say his gating in that sport seemed ok and he looked very stylish and even beat the World Longtrack Champion in one race. Also beat Chris Harris in 2 rides. Wouldn't surprise me if Matt Ford and Middlo have looked at that footage also, as plenty of it, and thought this boy may have some scope to improve. Appreciate Speedway is different and gating is important. However think he may spring a few surprises and not totally cold having ridden and improved av in N/L plus rode as a guest for Somerset in last 3/4 matches of last season scoring points in all of them even if not that many (learning curve remember). If a 2 pointer was Matt's aim then I think he got a good young rider with potential to improve.

Nothing to do with credibility. Both promoters worked within the rules of what can/can't be done. Fair play to Wolves for doing a clever piece of biz in getting what was the World number 1 back on such an average and he played his part in both points secured and motivating the other riders to win the EL. My point was that had that no doubt been Matt Ford then I think the forums would have been in overdrive on how he manipulated to his advantage and played the system. I think Wolves did a brilliant move and great piece of PR for Speedway in general in getting Tai back and as said fair play to them. Now can we leave this subject to Chris Holder - please ;-)