STEVEHOLS54

I may have underestimated Ellis. His scores in first part of the season were dire to say the least. But like Swindon his scores have improved markedly in the second half of the season and its those first half scores which are reflected in his new 5.45 GSA up from 5. I checked Swindon meeting stats and he has indeed put in plenty of good solid scores the last 2/3 months. If the thinking is to tighten up those 2 reserve berths with solid scorers, then knowing Woryna will almost certainly be out of reserve come first GSA in 2018 it would then be wise to have 2 solid scoring guys in there. Meaning that the likes of Ellis/Newman/Klindt ???/Jakobsen if he could be given a low GSA would for sure make it interesting. Would still like to see Kurtz/Holder jr back with the top end open to discussion/conjecture.

Getting back to Poole 2018 :-) Skidder alerted us to how well Frederik Jakobsen has developed since last year and I flwd up with some comments yesterday evening on this undoubtedly talented young rider. His team Poznan were hammered in PL 2 semis yesterday in scoring only 33 points, BUT his score was Frederik Jakobsen - 12 (1,3,0,2,3,3) This on top of him top scoring for DK in World Team U21 final on Sunday. This lad is only 19 and only his 3rd year on a 500cc Bike. Has been finishing his studies in DK this year. Again I say if he could be signed on a low BSPA av (and why not with no UK league exp) or Polish EXL or Nice 1. Maybe worth a punt as possibly the next big Danish rider ?? He guested at an end of season meeting at Poole last year on an invite from Matt and also issued a come and get me to the Club in late October (article in Bournemouth Echo) I would like to see Matt sign him if he could get him at a low av as bags of potential imo. Believe his studies finish now so could be an all in rider for 2018 ?? Any thoughts or comments ??

Much as I would love to see Coventry back in Speedway, do we really want to see it back at the wasteland that is what is there now ?? Speedway is already struggling without major investment with clubs even with half decent stadiums struggling to stay afloat. Lets cherish the memories of this once great club as it was. there has been too much happen imo for it to come back unless another stadium could e provided or some major investment in this. The players involved couldn't even get that right so what chance. Coventry at some stage will be redeveloped imo. Do we really want to see some half hearted attempt to race there again with a patched up (even then needing major investment) stadium. Would love to be proved wrong but if British Speedway is already way down what chance Coventry :-( Sorry to all Coventry supporters but just a view from someone who remembers the good days from my home track of Hackney in my first meeting in 1970 when we welcomed such a good team and have fond memories of their riders. They were a team to be feared for many years. So sad they way it went downhill in recent years :-(

I have spouted a lot about Gavan and his knowledgeable and interesting comments on the sport. He supplies both entertainment and worthwhile comment to the SF. But Gavan knows full well that some of what he says is waving a red rag to a bull. Some of it is fun and there is a lot of positive input in what he has to say so I welcome him and his comments/input. Just feel that this CH/Batch thing gets out of control and should be on the Holder sacked topic. But suppose that topic has lost its appeal on Holder sacked so it gets dragged out all over again on Poole 2018. I welcome Gavans comments/opinions on rider ideas and those put up by others whether he agrees or disagrees as this is what this forum is all about. But as for the Holder/Batch thing. Come on guys not on this topic please :-)

On your last point. Yes the so called BSPA were quick off the mark to promote our young lads had arrived in Poland, but correct me if I'm wrong but no a peep out of them in news as to how well or as it tuned out how badly they had done in finishing last. Why not at least post some lines on a brave effort against better rivals rather than try to bury it as if it never existed. The bottom line is that it only highlights how far behind the others UK really is. The Poles are light years ahead of UK and get a reality check. UK will NEVER compete. There is not the investment or interest or sponsorship/promotion. We may get the odd rider who will do well like Lambert but imo even he will never scale the heights. Lets not forget this lad raced in Germany etc as under aged even before signing for KL as a youngster legally allowed to ride EL. I think he will be an above av UK rider but World class?? - Not convinced despite his U19/21 performances in Europe. Note Europe not the World. Now the young Aussies and Danes are ahead of our boys in performance and probably ability imo. Sunday was almost a wipe out for our lads and just showed how far behind we are. Lambert was ok but even he is way behind the Poles and some Aussies imo. Yes our lads need major investment but even if we had all the tools in place it will be years before we get to these guys levels. That will never happen so we will have to make do with being bottom of the pile for a lot longer.

Wouldn't it be nice to get back to what this topic is about i.e Poole 2018. Some seem to have lock stock and barrel transferred the Chris Holder Topic over to Poole 2018. It depressing reading the same thing trolled over and again now on this topic . Come on guys if any want to bang on about CH/Batch and their sackings/bans then move it over to the other topic. I for one (and no doubt others) would like to have our topic back please. It seems to be highjacked by this old news. The CH situation will no doubt conclude depending on the appeal (whenever that is) and hopefully it can be put to bed whether the sentence be reduced/extended or maintained. Until then as a Poole supporter I would like our topic back please. Bang the argument out on the CH thread if you guys want to continue knocking crap out of each other opinion wise.

I agree. Until he decides if its Speedway mainly or just as a combo of all 3 then he will develop slowly and irrespective of the all action he shows he may take too long. But as per my last post maybe his future as a Poole rider post 2017 will mainly be determined by the league and points set up for 2018. For me a Newman/Ellis or one of those and a Fredrik Jakobsen (if he can get in on a low av) would be preferable. But of course I forget. We have that secret weapon Kacper Woryna who will initially start as a reserve anyway. Although not after the first GSA meaning long term we need to have a strong reserve combo in my opinion. Plenty to think on but we have to wait anyway for the Nov BSPA meeting before any real planning can be done.

irrespective of who we think will or wont be riding next year (and its fun to guess and have ideas on it), the important factor in all of this is what the make up of the league/s will be and what points av the powers will be will be put in place for teams. Ultimately whatever guessing we do we still have to wait for Nov earliest to see what the BSPA decide/vote on. No doubt if Matt is not in the BSPA team photo post meeting again this year then we will know its hasn't gone as he wanted.

Indeed. Considering the guy is still only 19 and has been finishing school/college in DK this year he could be one of if not the next big DK rider ?? Has performed well in DK and been coming along in Polish 2nd League. Recent guest appearance as well for Piratena/Swe. if someone asked me who wld I rather have say an Ellis who at 22 in March and been riding for some time or an up and coming 19 year old who is going places having only had 2 seasons prior to this on 500CC speedway bikes, then I know who I would prefer. The guy also issued a come and get me plea to the Pirates in Oct (see Bournemouth Echo article in late Oct 16) when he was guesting in end of season meeting. Assuming he is finished his studies end of this year could be a surprise signing for any forward thinking club if he can get in on a low average. Should be as he is so young - never ridden GB leagues and has been riding in Polish 2nd (not POL Exl or Nice 1) and DK. Nothing to warrant giving a high av in UK. Certainly not above KW who is more experienced. LC has suggested it must be Ellis. Much as I want to see British riders flourish I also want to see potential young WW talent irrespective of which Country they come from. A young DK rider is probably more likely to go all out in UK League if he already hinted where he wanted to ride ;-) For me Ellis will always be a 5/6.5 point man.He has ridden UK long enough and when riding on Continent has never really done anything in ind competitions for junior Championships etc. FJ has ben improving at a pretty rapid rate considering not even 3 seasons on a 500 CC bike. Anyway will be interesting to see who he ends up with as I am sure forward thinking promoter......./s already has his card marked ;-) ;-)

Its been fairly quiet on this topic flwg the excitement of the last 48/72 hours. Now the initial euphoria has died down with Poole having made the play offs (which in itself is an achievement after all the problems recently), would like to revisit this. Is anyone out there in the know using the forum able to give some sensible hints as to who this second rider might be that has allegedly been signed/agreed to ride for Poole in 2017. If certain forum contributors seem to know then surely some clues (of a sensible nature) can be put into the forum domain so us forum users and contributors can at least work it out without actually naming who the rider is. See nothing wrong in that.

Keep it going Skidder. This is far more interesting than a lot of the personal sniping and back biting that seems to frequent any topic that has Poole as a subject on this forum. Any more clues or hints are always welcome of course, but if not happy to at least have the brain matter trying to work out who it may be. Plus if those who may know already seem happy with the possible signing then I will await with eager anticipation ;-)

Certainly doing my brain cells in ;-) The trouble with taking early retirement (by choice) is that you over think like hell who it might be when its the club you support. In football you get too many names put in the public domain but with you Skidder its like trying to squeeze the lemon drip by drip to get some hints/clues. Impatient ?? - Of course - but that's what the forum is all about. Speedway fanatics/fans scouring for info on who may be riding for their club next season even if we are still at the front end of this. Liverpool FC named Keita as signed for next year. Why cant we at least get a rumoured name or reasonable clues to point us in the right direction. Even if they don't come off it stops the over active brain cells scouring the SGB website and GSA's for clues as to who it might be ;-)

Hope its not TJH as for me a backward step based on his scores this season and to me has gone backwards wherever he is riding both UK and Cont. I notice his UK av for Kings Lynn is dropping even further below the current GSA 5.69 based on woefully low scores last 1/2 weeks. Only mention it as never know if you are dropping a hint Skidder. He meets certain of PPF criteria as he rides UK - has ridden UK. Is he not a Poole asset as if so surely doesn't need KL approval to discuss next season as he is already as asset. Also interesting how his scores are dropping with his av as the season draws to a close. In 16 rides since last GSA came out he has got a massive.... 12 points i.e 3.00 per 4 rides. Not bad if you are trying to drop your av (not saying he is but IF.....) Just checked KL site and up to last night his av had dropped to 5.00. Indeed maybe becomes interesting if he gets some engines instead of peddle power for next season :-) Maybe I am way off the mark but keeps it interesting ;-)

Personally would like to see a certain KN back with his low GSA as he could go in as both a Brit - Loyal Poole man who tries his hardest for Poole - If he keeps fit (finally after last 2 seasons of bad luck) would be a great as second reserve on his 4.22 current GSA which with luck and only 2 meetings left he could maybe maintain ;-) To have say both Newman and Woryna as the reserves would really be good. Again league set up for 2018 - points limits - what make up of team has to be if 2 Brits minimum all go into the melting pot. Would like to think Kyles release earlier this season is behind both parties. For sure from a Biz point of view and with his av dropping and Pooles bad form, decisions had to be made which were not pleasant. His injury for sure affected his form but had he not been released, then from a GSA perspective Ford would have been up a creek. Fortunately Kyle got fixed up but certainly as a rider who gives 100% having him float in and out of reserve would be good. Where that puts James Shanes ??? - Still not sure what is the right and wrong move as he will still be weak at reserve although hopefully a little better. Will Matt Ford take any risks next year though after this year. Somehow I don't think he will. Interesting thoughts to ponder.

Would be very wary of having Klindt in the team to start 2018 again after the very serious injuries he had. His own racing site quoted after the injury. This scan showed: torn ACL, partially torn MCL, damage on the inside and the outside meniscus, cartilage damage on the tibia as well as a crack in the bone. I think Matt Ford should think carefully before including him for 2018 with question marks over his fitness. They sure cant afford to carry any riders in 2018 and for sure Klindt will no doubt do the journeyman norm of signing all 4 leagues again for next year same as he did this year. I think like Lahti he is good at reserve but when he moves out he can be a liability. (Checking the results in POL and Sweden one may even argue Lahti is younger so maybe more scope. My issue with Lahti is again he rides everywhere so its like move on to next meeting whichever Country i.e POL/SWE/UK/Finland). Factor in the unknown factor of whether Klindt will be physically 100% fit and healthy leaves for me questions as to whether they can afford to take a risk. Of course so much revolves around what the league/s will look like in 2018 - what will be new team averages - will there be a min requirement of 2 Brits per team etc. Having said that Klindt is a Poole asset which is not the same as saying he will be in the 2018 team. Ford has plenty of assets who don't ride for Poole. Must admit scratching my head on who this rider may be who you said yes to 2 questions out of about 6 ;-)

Initial thought is Kyle Newman with his new 4.22 GSA average. If it is then he only has 2 meetings left at home to Wolves and away at Rye H. In which case he wont bust a gut with next season and going into the team on a low av at reserve to consider ?? If its not is this another hidden gem that Matt has unearthed that is below anyone else's radar ;-) Come on Skidder leak a few more clue's ;-)

I still reckon both Holders - Would love Magic back but a lot depends on whether he wants to come (dont think he is happy in Sweden) and how our averages are looking come close of season - Or maybe an already mentioned Kildemand if he is just over 7 points. The one unknown if if we do have to field 2 UK riders then who would that second one be ??. Obvious candidates are Newman/Stark and lastly /Wright who is a Poole asset. I am sure Matt Ford is already way ahead of the game on who he wants. Wasn't Kildemand a Poole asset once or maybe still is ??

Knowing your inside info Skidder is this just a guess or you have an idea a Dane may be coming ;-) Would be a bit concerned if it is a Dane - why ?? They also race normally on a Wed so if we go fixed race nights i.e Wed/Thur (instead of Mon-Thur) I forsee clashes. (Of course if a Dane cuts out DK in a swap for UK then different of course). Other than NKI I have reservations on most Danes. Many have gone backwards or sideways in my opinion such as Kildemand - Jepsen Jensen - Micha Bech. I could be missing a hidden gem in amongst the mainly av looking ones of course. Like another one on a poss hidden low average that Matt has been scouring over the averages on ;-) NKI would always be welcome but hopefully not H.Anderson again. Certainly not Bjarne P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think Jack Holder may have just secured his Polish EL Club for 2018. Scored 10 paid 11 from his first 4 rides for Torun today which may well keep them in Polish EL. Blew a last place in his 5th but no problem as meeting already won. Chris Holder 9 paid 10 from 5 rides. Not too bad for a has been and probably on Medzinski's equip again as his own has been so dire. I am sure Jack will be offered a contract for 2017 which will be pressure off for him as he will probably drop UK Prem to concentrate on UK/Poland and maybe also get a Swedish Club. Will also improve his riding to race against World class riders every week. Brady Kurtz 8 plus 9 from 5 rides at Fogia Lezno -Woryna not so good this week with 5 plus 2 from 5 alsoaway but lets not be too hard As Fogio had Piotr Pawliki - Kildermand - Saifutinov - Zengota and Kolodziej who were all riding at home. Bradys score pretty good from heat leader berth. Think he is another one who will get a contract next year in Poland after his last 2 matches coming in at ROW Rybnik. Another step up the progress ladder for both Aussies at 20/21 years of age. Both of them plus Woryna for 2018 will be entertaining. Sorry should have said drop UK Championship not Prem - Duh !!!!!!!

Matt imo partly got it wrong. He chose Kazp as number one and you rightly forecast he could be hit and miss. But seriously could anyone have seen they guy ride so badly so consistently ?? Could anyone have seen a rider of his status really sinking to a 5.51 AV and his injury was not the reason as he had performed badly both before and after. I expected some poss inconsistency but not that bad. His whole demeanour was as if he wasn't really that bothered. Having said that he is yet another who was having speed issues with his bikes in both UK and Poland. Don't know what it is about the tuning but too many top riders have had similar issues. Klindt is a difficult one. Good signing when at reserve and in his 10 league matches he actually achieved 6.48 av incl bonus points. Factor in his injury which pushed it down a bit then I am 50/50 on whether he is a good signing or not. You could say that if thinking is Woryna and Shanes at reserve (ok we are playing the guessing game here but the topic is after all Poole 2018), then Klindt at 5.78 maybe not a bad move as if and when Woryna pushes up a bit then you know Klindt will almost certainly score plenty at reserve. I think Matt knew he would swing in and out of reserve but his thinking may have been the team would always get a good return from the reserves races and Klindt could be used in at least 5 races if Shanes struggled. Kurtz over performed for me prior to his injury but I think too much is put on him. Only his second season in EL and too much Darcy Ward comparison put on the guy. I still think his final av may drop a bit as he continues to gain experience. Jeez the guy isn't 21 until later this year. He will be good. How good ?? - Still a work in progress and if he finds that ruthless streak he sometimes can display then the sky is the limit. Jack Holder - Performing for me sometimes better than expected. Bit older than Kurtz by some 8/9 months but one UK season less than Kurtz and displays promise for the future. Again a work in progress but too much unfair pressure put on these 2 young guys who should be allowed to learn their trade if the so called heat leaders had done their jobs. Shanes was always going to struggle but he was partly there for being a UK young rider on a 2 point av and in fairness he never fails to entertain. My worry is if he continuous to put priority on Grass Track and now long track then I see his continuing to struggle. The guy needs to do what Kurtz and Holder Jr did in getting lots more UK meetings around the Champ tracks. For me Lahti was a bad signing but it seems more done in desperation. His av in Poland and Sweden was so up and down I cant say I was surprised at what happened. But nobody else was interested with Continent commitments still going full on in July. H.Anderson - For me Poole will never win a league with him in it now. Can be brilliant and frustrating in equal measures. Has too many problems at important times in a meeting but on his day can gate and hold anyone. He is a typical journeyman in twighlight of his career. Jeez 4 leagues plus indiv tournaments incl Danish Champ - SGP/Euro GP qualifiers and possible matches is too much. Guy is never in one place for more than 5 mins. Its like oh well on to the next meeting. Kennett - Did Ford have many other options knowing also how badly things were going. Could have kept Kazp but we all know he would still be av 5/7 max had he stayed. Yes I will agree in part Matt Ford was to blame but also some riders haven't stepped up to the plate and performed as hoped/expected. Hopefully next season will be different.

A question for Skidder1 and anyone else wanting to comment. My thoughts posted earlier on 2018 Poole team were. Magic/Chris Holder/B.Kurtz/J.Holder/Kacper Woryna/Kyle Newman/J.Shanes On the basis of current GSA (starting 21/8) it just scrapes in (by 0.25) on a 42 point av and meets a 2 Brits rule. Skidder commented on another thread that he thought I would be lucky to see 3 or 4 of those names in for 2018. My question to Skidder when back online is who in his opinion does he NOT think will be in my 7 named and any other thoughts on who would/might be. Same comment to other posters. Early days I know but certain posters incl Skidder seem to normally have insight as to what MIGHT happen like the Woryna signing which was kind of hinted or clues given well before the announcement.

Hi Gavan As an observer and occasional Poster I think you do post a lot of interesting points many of them are true. However I do notice how its like waving a red rag to a bull when you rise to the bait with Starman which occasionally is entertaining but much of your exchanges become too much. Starman is equally to blame. I enjoy both your contributions at times and manyof our comments Gav as a non Poole supporter merit respect and are true such as the situ's with Klindt/Newman and the very frustrating Kazp. You made plenty of observations and comments on all 3 and some well in advance of what eventually happened in respect of how good/bad they became or stood still on av. etc. I welcome both your inputs guys but just wish you would both keep it to Speedway with the odd bit of banter. You are both valuable members of a breed of supporter most would welcome to get interested in the sport. Lets not totally wipe each other out. There's room for characters like you two guys as you are the lifeblood of the speedway even if you don't see eye to eye on many things in the sport :-)

Ok Skidder. I will bow to your superior inside knowledge of what's going on within the inner sanctum of the Poole Promotion/Management as you seem to have inside info quite early sometimes with small and large hints/clues as to what may be coming/going on ;-) I think my idea of line up is cutting it very fine on the points anyway if they do leave it at 42 with a min of 2 Brits per team. Especially with plenty of meetings still left. Be interesting (for me anyway) to see how far out I am come the day when the team finally announced. No doubt Matt will drip feed it to us all in order to keep interest up during those long dark nights and forgettable days of Winter :-) At least we know he will be trying his hardest to avoid this seasons mess.

Just hope the fans and club exercise patience with the lad. The UK tracks are not like Poland and in my opinion UK requires more skill on smaller tracks which are also in the main not up to the quality of the Polish tracks OVERALL. Magic proved that having some years in UK improved him no end over a 3/4 year period to make him what he is now i.e a potential World Champion. Lets not get carried away though. Poole need a period of calm after the calamities of this year. If they can secure a top flight number one (like a Magic again) and have good strength in depth with the likes of Kurtz and Holder JR to hopefully come on as well as maybe Shanes and Newman (or a.n.other) then the lad wont have the World on his shoulders. Whatever the general opinion is on Chris Holder (and for sure its divided especially amongst other teams supporters) I still think he is a steal at 7.16. Some are writing him off as a has been who is only using British Speedway. This year its no secret he has struggled with the engines not being tuned good enough to give him the speed we know he is capable of. Look at his scores in Poland when he rode 2/3 matches on Medzinskis equipment recently. Much more like the old Chris Holder. I think a more focused Chris in 2018 back at his home club Poole on hopefully better running equipment with his friend and co Aussie Brady as well as younger Brother Jack could revitalise him. At 7.16 one would be crazy not to take him back. For all the negative press amongst some supporters and Promoter.../s he could be a good influence if he channels the positives. He needs to also put the Darcy horror and the difficulties of his personal relationship last year behind him. Coming back to Poole also keeps him close to his boy who we know he loves to bits. I would like to think a more focused Chris will rediscover his form if he can also get his engines and mind set sorted. But he is not the only one. There are plenty of riders out there who we call World Class who have had tuning issues this year and many have struggled to find the answer. Incl Woffinden - Kilderman - Saifutinov - Zagar and others. Few have been able to put their finger on where the lack of speed is coming from. They are hardly poor riders. There seems to have been a lack of consistency among a lot of top riders this year due to power issues.

I read a post not long ago that said that the BSPA plans for the flwg season would be known by promoters well in advance (i.e Aug) of the Nov annual meet so they have plenty of time to study/chew over comment on etc. Maybe I am wrong but if that is the case then MAYBE forward thinking promoters already have a handle on what may be happening next year subject to them all subsequently agreeing (or not) of course. Hence maybe the curve ball comment from Matt Ford in his announcement re Woryna.