STEVEHOLS54

Sorry Wolfie Yes you are right. The current POL rule will only allow his own league as 3rd choice. Indeed his mind is made up probably. Bet the KL fans will not be happy bunnies but as I have said before riders such as NKI and the HA's of this World are starting to reach twilight of their careers. Can you blame them for maximising income. I read on Polish site that NKI's contract for 2018 is worth in the region of GBP 250/265,000 for 2018 just in Poland alone. Maybe more if they make the playoffs/Gold medal. Add the second highest paying league Swedenon top (providing they do pay him say monthly) plus his own league makes the decision a no brainer. The Aussies and Poles can do Pol Exl /SWE/UK I believe. Its the POL Nice 1 where they can do more as experienced with globetrotting Hans Anderson (4 leagues). But I am sure certain promoters are not too unhappy as some don't want the superstars in our league anyway due to cost. Personally I want to see the top riders but suppose we have to accept we are at best joint third and probably more like 4th best of the leagues taking Pol EXL/Swe/Pol Nice 1 probably ahead of us. At least we don't drop to 5th as the Danes cant afford seven man teams ;-) If people like you and me PB can see that then why cant the so called BSPA experts see it ????? We end up with people starting to get bored with it. No one wants to go when its cold and wet and when all the rest of Europe shut up shop a while ago (mainly). Add to that all the injuries and teams fielding plenty of guests and RR due to injuries etc it doesn't look great. I know the Poles have a lot more money than UK but they still only have a regular season of 14 matches plus max 4 for playoffs. They seem to have plenty of individual and teams tournaments in pairs/fours/ind championships. The Poles only really need to add the Swedish league as evidenced now by so much of their top talent. The odd ones add in DK as on a Wed night it is so easy now to go from Swe Tuesday and drive to DK Wed without having to also base equip there. Even though the Danes may not be the highest payers for the Poles that do go there its not a bad geographical run - Pol Sun - recover Monday - Swe Tue and then drive to DK for Wed. Gives plenty of time to recover for Sundays main league again without constant flights to fly in all over UK for less Money - plus more equip being based here. I will never understand how Hans And has done it for so long (4 leagues) but then again POL Nice 1 doesn't pay the megabucks as does POL EXL I suppose. Plus Hans now needs to maximise what earning potential he does have as he wont be around one assumes in 10 years so indeed the Speedway riders career is not a long one. Unless you are Superman Greg Hancock that is ;-) To me if its 42 points the Holders make sense (as they reside locally to Poole during the season) its just whether Matt Ford wants someone with more potential scoring power to replace HA if he can find such a rider with the points left available. The options are falling away although Vaculik and Milik could be possibilities as they are not Poles but its a case of IF they would give up their home leagues which are small fry. But would they find UK too much to squeeze if with their other Continental commitments being possibly SGP/SEC plus all the individual comp and various qualifiers around Europe. A lot of me says no they won't want the hassle of UK. Unless of course Matt Ford offers a killer deal financially where they can't afford to say no but I doubt it. But with Matt Ford anything may be possible with the right sponsor backing ;-)

Incredible isn't it that the Swedes will probably have their teams complete as will the Poles no doubt before the BSPA have their annual meeting when is it ??. I hear around 18th Nov in Tenerife ??? All this talk of lots of the top riders maybe coming to UK. No chance imo. For example Rospiggana have signed their seven with R.Lambert being the latest after his 2017 team said they didn't want him for next year. Don't see much evidence of these Swedish financial problems that have been mentioned but no doubt there are some. You can see though these guys don't mess around. They get on and sort it out while the likes of the BSPA will be sunning their ar**s in Tenerife trying to sort out how our 4th class league (after Pol EXL/Nice 1/Swe) drives forward). Also the likes of NKI already sorted his new POL team (Torun) and Swe team which means if the rules as per this year, what will he choose DK (as per this year) or UK. He wont be able to choose both assuming the Poles keep same rules in place for POL EXL riders. I for one will not be surprised if both Holders are in the team for 2018. Also from cost perspective will be cheaper than some of the other top riders taking into a/c heavy travel expenses etc. Plus the normal will/wont these other top riders turn up if they give other POL individual meetings priority as well as GP/SEC. I expect maybe more of the same as this year with a lack of top/top riders except MAYBE the likes of Doyle and a few others at best and even he may depend on if we go to fixed race nights. That's on top of the last month plus of the season of teams full of guests and RR due to injuries etc. Only UK could produce such crazy situations due to no squad system.

Neither would I be over concerned if it was topped up with Shanes - Ellis & Woryna (already signed for 2018). Or even throw Milik into the mix on his low GSA. So many poss combinations but again it will come back to Teams points limit plus who wants to come to UK. If as reported by a number of sources/contributors Sweden is in the brown smelly stuff, (well some of them as it wont be all) then maybe some of these guys will consider UK as a second option to Poland. Will require some deep pocket spending though. Lets hope the signings match our hopes and expectations in this game of name next years team ;-)

yep I would go for that line up :-) Now all we can do is dream what the team points limit will be and what little gems hopefully Mr Ford can unearth. God knows what it would cost to get Magic and Drabik to ride for Poole but hopefully Matt can conjure up some sponsors with deep pockets. Anyway I hope Matt comes with some news of a signing for when I get back from sunning my backside in Tenerife for the next 2 weeks ;-)

There are some things that concern me with RL and despite the fact he is only 20 next year lets not lose sight of the fact he has been riding speedway bikes for 8 years. Not 2/3/4 but 8 years. He went through 250cc stage until he got his 500cc licence and then gained valuable experience riding under aged in Germany where he could ride 500cc bikes. This guy is not a new rider. Not just 4 years in EL/Prem (and that's a longish time anyway to develop). Yes the guy has talent BUT is he really all we make him out to be because he is a Brit ???. If he really was/is so good then he hasn't shown it also in the Polish League 2 incl the 2 finals where his scores to rides ration was poor. Hardly a showcase for the Polish Exl where all good riders want to break into. Maybe his leg injury did not help in those and last nights matches. My concern would be as stated in some other posts. His starting technique which seems to put his at a disadvantage a lot. Some of his positional riding at turns 1 & 2. I am not here to knock the guy as I stated on a Poole Team Forum for 2018 I would like to have him at Poole (if he became available). However I do have concerns as to where he will get to unless he has some major changes to push him forward in his technique/engines tuners/management etc. We all sometimes need a bit of luck and some breaks in life. The Poles have the benefit of some brilliant youngsters such as Drabik/Smektala/Woryna/Kubera. However maybe its not just the talent as they seem to have all the necessary good equipment/backing/tuners/sponsorship to help promote that talent plus of course decent stadiums/tracks. At some stage Lambert has to step up to the plate as otherwise he faces being overtaken by others such as the Aussies - Frick (probably already ahead) - Kurtz - Holder Jr etc. I hope he does and still young enough to push through. Its just that when you have been watching Speedway as I have for some 47 years you sometimes get a gut feeling that maybe there is something missing that you see at an early age in the really top stars. Having said that if you had watched Jason Doyle at 23/24/25 at Poole you would have thought at best he would be another middle order Aussie riding in the EL. At best he was average. BUT.... One thing he could do was gate.

For sure if there is one rider in the World I would like to see at Poole it is Maksym Drabik. I think he is the hottest rider on the planet for such an age. Not 21 until Feb 2018. The guy is incredible. For me the best young rider to come along since a young Darcy Ward. I only think Frick won the World U21 last year because Drabik broke his leg in several places in Sweden which wiped out most of 2016. For sure he would probably have won last years too had he not.To have come back from that serious injury this year and also recently a broken collarbone injury makes the feat of winning the WU21 last night even more amazing. To score 21 and 18 points in 2 meetings against the top U21 riders is incredible. To also have scored in the second of the 3 meetings 8 from 4 rides incl even after he fell in one of them and broke his shoulder is testament to his talent. It w as further evidence (if we needed it) how the young Poles are on a different planet compared to us and the Aussies. You only have to look at last nights scores where Kurtz/Holder and Lambert (who scored a massive 3 points...) highlight it. The likes of Drabik/Smektala/Woryna/Kubera. Incredible talent and just shows how far the Poles have progressed. If we got Drabik I wouldn't care who we got at number 1 for 2018. (Within reason)

If only huh Starman ?? ;-) We can but dream of that prospect :-)

Seen the odd post that Robert Lambert MAY not be back at KL in 2018. Would Poole fans like to see Matt Ford try to sign this young talent in the Pirates colours ?? Still only 19 (20 in Apr 2018) and his final GSA 7.38. Would love to see him alongside other rising young stars such as B.Kurtz/J.Holder/K.Woryna. I just did one of those lets guess the team calculations. I come up with the flwg: Lambert 7.38 B.Kurtz 8.08 J.Holder 5.82 C.Woryna 4.65 Chris Holder 7.16 J.Shanes 2.96 Total 36.05 If points total 42 leaves 5.93 If 43 its 6.96 and if 45 leaves 8.96. I make the 45 point limit 0.01 too high to accommodate Magic :-( Sure would like to know what team points limit we can play the guessing game with for 2018, as would certainly eliminate some of the team make up ideas. Any thoughts ??

No - No Please let the Trolls and those with nothing in the way of sensible speedway contributions keep their negativity and useless comments on this topic, as its keeping it away from the subject I am most interested in i.e Poole and other Southern speedway clubs plans for 2018. My concern is if and when this topic is closed down then the personal back biting and nastiness unrelated to speedway will find its way into the more sensible contributions elsewhere :-(

No chance of Brady going imo. I hope he does do UK/Swe/Pol as it will improve him as a rider. He has no GP distraction at this stage and until he does I think he will easily accommodate UK as well. There is no way in a million years that Matt Ford would allow such a prestigious talent to slip out of his hands. He is part of the future of Poole just as Chris Holder and Darcy Ward were for some years before fate intervened. Hopefully Jack Holder will also be one of those long term for those hopefully willing to exercise a little patience

Definitely worth another season. He has scored well for Peterborough and shown he has talent when riding those few meetings for Torun. I agree he didn't show so much for Poole in second half of the season but many forget it is his first season in Prem. At only a 5.82 av and MAYBE he could drop into a reserve berth that would do both his av and confidence good. Having said that I would also hope he can improve his av anyway as he gains more experience. If he had been in a good team he would not have been under the microscope so much and allowed to have his up and down meetings while he gained experience. I certainly would not like to see him riding Prem elsewhere because if as I expect he does get better then he could say "Go to hell" if we did try to get him back. In a strong and consistent team I say let him develop and hopefully he will come good. Too much expected of the young Aussies we sign. Perhaps the legacy of having some of the great Young Aussies over the years and especially so soon after having Holder Sr and Ward as probably the 2 most exciting young riders of their era riding in UK over the last 7 years. Not every Aussie can be an overnight star. Ask a certain Mr Jason Doyle who hardly inspired enthusiasm in the years he was at Poole. We all remember the gate quick and then constantly overtaken during the race. Even when he was 23/24/25. How times change huh ?? Both Kurtz and Holder Jr's will be good riders. Brady almost there at just 21 today (his birthday today). Holder may have developed sooner perhaps had he not decided to stay in Aussie for another year to complete his apprenticeship I think. He is 1 UK speedway year behind Brady and in his first UK top flight season. Let's give these guys a break. They will still have ups and downs as they gain more experience. I would rather have them in my team any day as they both have good exciting styles and with the scope to get better. Forget the fact they may also ride Poland & Sweden. Most of the World stars do and it improves them as riders gaining experience on all kinds of tracks. Also remember a Speedway riders career is not that long so you have to make money where you can, as retirement from this sport for most is before you are 40. Its not paying what a lot of other motorsports pay where you can retire fairly wealthy.

Gav So much of what you say is right in this post down to and incl how Poole Management got it all wrong. Comments after that will leave to you and your friend who you enjoy the banter with ;-) You are right to a degree that there was too much crowing about how good this team were going to be. But not many could forsee KK imploding to the degree he did. Inconsistent at times I agree 100%, but consistently bad to the degree he was ?? Yes too much pressure on Kurtz but also on Holder jr in my opinion. He should have been developing in a good team and not expected to pull up trees when many a round him failed. He was always going to have ups and downs in his first season in Prem. Klindt was exactly that until his injury. Just ok. Fair enough at reserve but even then didn't GSA to the level I would have expected. In main team - Nuh not good enough for me. Newman was a victim of his own injury and undue pressure put on him by the failures going on around him. Ford didn't feel he could afford to lose out on another rider with his av falling so alarmingly so took a biz decision before it was too late. Good or bad move. Will always be debatable but ultimately probably not much in it with Starke overall but for sure unfair on Kyle who is so loyal to Poole. Kennett and Lahti - least said the better. Problem is that nobody else was really interested in Prem at that time, but even so warning signs on both were there with Kennett sacking form RH and Lahti not exactly model of consistency as he trawls around Europe with one good score - one bad score but at least spreading the word for his impressive looking sponsors when you visit his website. Cant see that guy back in Prem in a hurry unless he gets a permanent reserve berth which impossible of course. You are right that Kurtz - Anderson (to a degree as had an annoying habit of letting us down at important times) and Shanes came out with credit but Holder in his first season on a final GSA of 5.82 without BP was not a disaster. Just too much put on young shoulders in his first season of Prem when in reality it should have been a case of not too bad for a first season and shows promise as evidenced at Peterborough and last matches in Torun Even if on Hancocks engine/s). Ultimately a combo of factors incl injuries - bad riders/riding - inconsistencies and bad management decisions. For Swindon after that dodgy start the cards fell nicely in who they signed and riders also improved. Even the luxury of not having Doyle for part of the season plus carrying injury and having the distraction of probably winning the Speedway GP to become World Champion. Fair play to Swindon as I hope they do win it. The best team this year imo and would be a great shame if it all went to pot in the last weeks with not winning the KO Cup or the league. Hopefully they will win the league as they deserve it with that run they had to blow most of the others away.

You are a cynical old sod Starman ;-) Hope someone on the Forum has an inside track on what the limit will be. Someone must have an idea what has been mentioned/provisionally agreed before the AGM in Nov. It would at least give us some idea where we might be heading on team strength. Interesting that Lakeside Boss Cook intends to attend the pre AGM meeting as an observer as he wants Lakeside back in the Prem League. If Ipswich and say Sheffield also interested then makes for a bigger and better looking league imo. At least now that the not so great season that was 2017 is over for us, at least the Poole haters cant moan any more about this season not over for us yet, and we can start to at least dream of an ideal line up for 2018. Its a long a dark 6 months ahead without the Pirates but lets at least keep the interest up on who we may have for next year.

With Holders: M. Janowski, B. Kurtz, C. Holder, J. Holder, A. Ellis, K. Woryna & J. Shanes Without Holders: M. Janowski, B. Kurtz, R. Lambert, V. Milik, A. Ellis, K. Woryna & J. Shanes I also quite like the look of both sides BB. Both fairly young and exciting line ups with Shanes another youngster to balance the points. Again all depends on the limits. From a cost perspective both the Holders I assume keep cost down as live locally and do they both live together when here ??. Less on the travelling costs I suppose ?? BUT much for me depends on which Holder Senior would we get. The one with real sparkle or the one who couldn't get his engines firing/tuned almost all season. Food for thought plus the big question mark on his appeal anyway. I still think Holder jr would indeed improve with big Bruv in the side. The second option gives you Milik who surely can only improve his GSA but can you hold him for most of the meetings. If he wins the SEC then maybe a step up to GP ?? Lambert is interesting and perhaps he can improve elsewhere. But remember this is his 4th UK season where Holder Jr is only in his first UK season. I think Lambert could improve at a club like Poole amongst other young exciting riders. He needs to really show now he is destined for the top. Shouldn't be that riders such as Kurtz and Holder Jr are so close to Polish EXL next season but a part fit Lambert was having to try and prove in Pol League 2 finals he is worthy of a place in POL Exl. He isn't even sure of a Nice Pol 1 league place next year. The question is WHY ????. His injury didn't help his scores in last match with 9 points was it from 6 rides ?? The first leg was 6 from 5 rides. Hardly the scores to attract a Pol EXL side but then he was riding with his leg injury. Even so those scores were in Pol 2nd Div not Pol ExtraL or Nice 1. You have put Ellis in both teams I assume due to the noises made about Ford signing him as an asset although not formally announced yet. No doubt something soon though now that Matt Ford has nothing to write about now this season is gone. interesting that team 1 = GSA 43.19 and team 2 = GSA 43.24 according to my calc. If limit was 43 both a problem - 45 not but both options 1.81 and 1.76 points below. One point though. If you have a 45 point av for 2018 then you could get Bradley Wilson Dean on 4.67 rather than Shanes and fits both set ups. If you could convince him to leave Swindon ;-) If they win the league then maybe not but he looked good last night against our lot and maybe offers better scoring potential at reserve ??. Sorry Swindon fans looking in only playing the Poole 2018 Team game so we can at least play with figures. Cant see any others who would fit the av good enough for Poole. Problem with doing all this guessing is we could have a massive anti climax on riders signed who we don't think will meet our expectations. For sure 40 or 42 points would not be good for us imo. Even if all are stuck with it. Anyway all harmless fun until Matt starts naming riders (beside Woryna of course who is already named).

Kurtz and Holder Jr I would say yes and hopefully both will be riding Po EL next year gaining more experience. If both are considered good enough for that league (almost certain both will be in some form) they for sure they are good enough for Poole. Brady is still learning and needs pressure lifted as he is NOT Darcy Ward and at just turning 21 he doesn't need the pressure. He is coming along nicely thanks and hopefully will improve overall as he gets more experience. Lets not forget this is only his second season in top Flight. For me people need to get off Jack Holders back. Its his first season in top flight and while not getting to Bradys av ,he has one season less in UK in total remember. Plus if he can do what he did in Poland even if he was on Hancocks engine/s then please... can we not say he wont get better ???. Got to be worth persevering with. He has shown plenty at Peterborough and lets not forget he is still learning. In a good team we should be able to carry him through his ups and downs that he will have just as Brady has at times. For me its got to be Woryna/Holder Jr/Kurtz as the young future backbone of the team. Now the real debate is who next ????. Holder Sr a lot depends on when/what outcome of his appeal is (does anyone know when it is as he will probably be off to Aussie at some stage for the Winter ??). What will the teams points limits be for 2018. Magic/Milik ?? - Do people want Andersen back as a steady team man that will have his usual ups and downs but has been the man who kept going through the season. For me the points limit is a big driver of what maybe Poole can/cant achieve in 2018 as for sure Matt Ford will want a strong and more importantly consistent team that does not implode they way Poole did at one stage this season. Thankfully we wont have the likes of Kennett or Lahti back next year. Also Starke I am sure wont be there. As for the likes of Shanes/Klindt/Newman ??? - I question how many of these lower order riders we can accommodate if we want a chance of winning the league in 2018. We really don't want the nightmare that at one stage was 2017 with a lucky get out of jail card to get into the last 4 knowing it would end in tears. As it ultimately did. Let the debate begin ;-)

THJ performed in line with how he has been performing recently in UK. Rosco took a big risk in using him. He had shown no improvement during his recent dire UK scores so he should have known it was a better than 50% chance he would backfire. In fact I would have said 75% chance based on his last 5/6 performances for KL.

Of course my apologies for the slip. Same comments on his scores though as some weeks ago I went through his most recent 4/5 matches and they were bad. Partly explains why his GSA also dropped.

Maybe Rosco hoping he does a Lahti. Brilliant at reserve but dire in the main body of the team. THJ of old would be a no brainer. BUT his scores in the last 4/5 matches for RH were dire to say the least. But difficult to question Rosco. His team tactics and planning this year have been brilliant and maybe he can see TJH being a match winner a lot of us cant see based on his recent form. If he does score well then indeed it was another good move from him.

Yes Lambert probably carrying a knee injury. The point is he is riding for a Polish EXL or Nice 1 place at worse for next season. The likes of Kurtz and Holder Jr look nailed on to get teams in POL Exl but Lambert still hasn't convinced teams he is up to the level required imo. I think he was desperate to show clubs over the 2 legs of the final that he has what it takes. Shame his injury probably curtailed his scores as 9 from 6 rides in a POL 2nd Div match even if finals is hardly pulling up trees. Even so being seen and showing some ability is better than not showing and maybe being forgotten. The thing is that Speedway in UK is shown in a bad light as those of us with real interest in the Sport don't need to be treated as idiots. If Chapman was on the ball he really should be carrying out investigations, as how can he apply double standards after his Holder Jr outburst. Or was that more being angry after so close to the the Holder Sr incident and wanted revenge. Why else go so public on the BSPA site on it even though his club (who were out of the playoffs anyway) were happy at the release and were compensated. It just stinks that Chapman made such a big deal of it with the Peterboroiugh 4's (which they won anyway without him) preaches about British Speedway being let down in a Champ Comp yet in a prestigious event like the Prem Riders Championship not a peep out of him or the BSPA. No of course not. Its one of his riders so he wants it to disappear with nobody hopefully noticing it.

Have no problem with a rider trying to prove himself for Poland 2018 as rightly said that is where his main source of income should come form over the next 10 years if he is going to make it. My gripe is the flwg: Was it not the BSPA who put out the message that he was not riding in the PLRC due to his leg injury. If that's the case then indeed how can he ride Germany Friday and then do 6 rides in Poland on Sunday. Of course the BSPA and its members/chairman will not air their views on the BSPA which can understand. However one can understand how some question the integrity of the BSPA Chairman considering his outburst about Holder Jr riding in Poland despite his club Peterborough being happy to let him ride and were compensated. Was any such compensation passed over to UK Speedway for Lambert not riding in the UK's most prestigious individual meeting for the teams top riders at the National Speedway Stadium. Is Mr Chapman even bothering to look into it or cant be ar**ed as its his teams rider and end of season so what's the point ?? Sorry mean air their views on the BSP not BSPA...

Am just intrigued that if Lambert was allowed to drop this important meeting due to injury then how can he have a miraculous recovery less than 24 hours later to ride in Poland and manage not 4 but 6 rides. If he was given permission to drop this meeting in favour of Poland then fair enough, but if he was allowed to drop the meeting due to injury only then how can he turn up less than 24 hours later over there. Just looking for someone to give me a sensible answer to an honest question which so far not been forthcoming although appreciate many posters may be at work. Not looking for anyone to be suspended just an answer on how it can be allowed.

Hi Does anyone out there know how comes Robert Lambert was allowed to pull out of the PLRC on Saturday (due to his leg injury I read) but less than 24 hours later was all the way over in Poland riding for his POL 2nd Div side and managed to put in 6 rides for 9 points. Or did the powers that be allow him to miss this insignificant event to have priority to ride in a Polish 2nd Division event even if it was their Final. Maybe Mr Chapman can comment on it as he has opinions he is prepared to air on riders missing UK events to ride in Poland (i.e Jack Holder). Appreciate he did not miss his UK teams event but as the Top KL rider at such a prestigious meeting as the PLRC should that have been given preference ??

I remember when Darcy Ward had a gating problem he spent some time I think with either Hancock or Crump and it had an affect on him as it did improve. Young riders need to use these top guys as also mentors and could learn some basic things from them. He should not be too proud or up his own backside to seek advice on an area that could cost his development dearly if he doesn't get it sorted or at least part of it. Don't get me wrong I want to see Lambert progress, as he is arguably the best young British rider we have (at the moment).

Could it be personality clashes with some of the other Promoters and Chapman ??? We all know Matts forward thinking ideas on the sport and points limits etc have not always been matched by the have nots of the Prem. I could be wrong but perhaps that has a bearing on it. Either that or Matt too busy unearthing the next big signing for Poole ;-)

I think Lambert has to start making some important decisions. I think he maybe has to drop Champ and concentrate now on UK/POL and Sweden. His talents are above Polish 2nd Div and he has had his nursery stint in that league. He needs if poss Polish EXL if he can be promoted correctly or at worse Nice league 1. He certainly also needs to meet the same top riders in Swedish Elite League. Those should be his main focus and then topped off with things such as World U21 which he still qualifies for and maybe try and get some SGP qualifying experience if possible. I have had some reservations about him as we have to remember he did get a good grounding in the sport as an under aged rider in Germany before UK. BUT yes he has talent and perhaps its a question of where he rides and the guidance he gets. Seen lots of Forum comments about his Mum being a driving force. I don't know but I think with right Professional guidance he can go a long way. Nearly all say he has got the talent but its untapping it more on to the big stage. Much as I like Poole and their promotion of the good young Aussies (incl the likes of Jason Doyle when he was developing), I do find it a shame that a young rider like Lambert with all his talent at a tender young age is not getting pushed forward as much as the likes of young Aussies such as Kurtz/Holder Jr/Fricke etc. Maybe he does need a move away into team where perhaps not so much pressure put on his like this season also with losing NKI as the established heat leader. He is still only 19 and I think yes after 4 seasons next season needs to be his breakthough year on the big stage. I hope he makes it as the top level he is one of the few Brits currently who could make it big in the sport. Fingers crossed.