STEVEHOLS54

I think Matt is trying to rescue the situation with Holder Sr who for me was the most important part of Matts plan for 2018 with Brady Kurtz. I think his team plans are up the wall with the current stalemate caused by Matt not taking Jack back who as one of the World's improving young riders already signed by Torun would to many have been an obvious resigning. But not for Matt who must have had something said which he has taken to heart.

So it looks like a lack of xmas cheer in the Ford household this year, and looking highly unlikely we will see any team announcements this side of xmas. Matt was highly confident that he would be putting out a very strong team for 2018 the 70th anniversary and was quite open in his comments in the media in that respect. We have gone from naming all kinds of top riders on this forum coming to the squad for 2018 to something which may well fall short of that if one takes his comments about being down on revenue by 20% with the possible loss of the TV deal. I think he felt Chris Holder was a shoe in but seems rider power is kicking in as its painfully obvious this whole saga is about Jack (who by the way I wanted to see back). Chris obviously wants to join him now at Somerset but of course Matt is not actually admitting it. He chooses to window dress the wording of his media releases and extract the max media coverage in both the Speedway Star and its now on Speedway GP. He then mentions with the 20% drop in revenue with the expected loss of TV he could do with selling 1/2 riders which to me is a clear indication that its sell only with Holder at a price of course nobody will pay. Especially after last season with the fall out at KL and his performances in general. Matt also admits selling some riders would help the club at this time. Sounds like all isn't well financially despite him protesting its not about money with Chris. Maybe it isn't but its plain to see Chris doesn't want Poole without Jack. It should have been obvious to Matt long ago that moving Jack on was going to cause problems for 2 brothers who probably live together when in UK - Ride for the same Polish Club so would travel together plus both probably thought they were back in at Poole. I personally think its a mistake letting Jack go irrespective of some of the comments re his immature remarks/comments. He is still a future young star and should be told to iron out his immaturity and just concentrate on riding. With his brother to mentor him I feel its a mistake letting him go. So where do we sit now on these top riders who we are supposed to be signing to give us that title winning look to the side ?? Holder looks like he wants out. Andersen looks like he's been told that as it stands he is not wanted back. Maybe a climb down though if Matt is up sh** creek. Sundstrom has been mentioned various times recently on this forum and if signed wont be a surprise to most visiting the Poole Forum. But even he cant be announced as the POL max 3 league rule hasn't been sorted - STILL...... On top of that is Sundstrom a heat leader ??? His revised GSA with the 8% reduction from his 2013 av (if its 2% per year not ridden) looks attractive but he isn't the rider you would go WOW about. So what about the Milik's/Madsen's etc which were the type of riders we were all looking for below 8 on old GSA's. I hope I am proved wrong and we do see something special but I have a feeling that with all not being hunky dory on the Holder front and on the financial front as admitted by Matt re the potential loss of 20% of his revenue, we may well be relying heavily on the 2 Poles which is dangerous. They should be the bonus signings and not the expected successes. I expect Brady & Josh to be steady but questionable at full heat leader status in the case of Brady especially who is still developing at 21.

Could Clegg be a better long term prospect ?? Morris is 3 years older than Clegg and looking at his stats has 3 years more riding experience. One would think that Morris should be more than 0.73 between them although take on your comments about Morris av being in main body of the team. Personally I thought 3/4 years Morris looked quite good when I saw him on TV but doesn't seem to have pushed on much in his career (so far). Having said that maybe long term this is their level in the sport ??

Skidder was not wrong in the fact that discussions had taken place behind closed doors back in September. The fact that Ford could not conclude the deal does not distract from the fact the initial information was right about talks taking place to have him possibly be signed as an asset for Poole. Speedway was the winner here as I said in an earlier post. The 2 riders have both ended up with double up contracts and who knows that maybe the deal also helped sweeten up Morris doubling up for both teams as well. Certainly something that Matt Ford was not able to put on the table. I think 3 riders have possibly ending up benefiting from the deal plus Lakeside supporters get to see 3 Swindon riders (maybe 4 if Swindon were to sign Clegg which is being aired on the forum but may not turn out to be the case).

You were not far short of the mark Skidder as your initial bloodhound skills did point us in the direction that Matt and Cook had been talking behind closed doors in the Poole office one race night at the time. You were so nearly right on this one ;-) Now one for your insider knowledge talents. Do you think Chris H will sign or not ?? We are heading towards Christmas and no announcement yet (although we know Matt tries to work his headlines outside of the Bournemouth FC news hitting the Echo). The forum has had plenty of rumours about Chris being miffed at not signing Jack and as a result wants to move. Probably not helpful also if Somerset do race on a Wed to clash with Poole race day meaning Chris cant help out little Bro with advice and pits back up on Somerset race nights. Also rumours about maybe he isn't happy at being offered a 7 pointer pay deal instead of what he's been used to as a number one. Do you think we are far away from the next team announcement ??.

Perhaps the rule would have been more acceptable had they agreed to 2 over 8 for 2018. That way teams such as BV/Swind/Wolves could have kept (if they chose to) there 2 x 8 point men, plus the other teams could have chosen from the other riders assessed 8 or more. I tend to agree though to leave every riders GSA's as is from the last season they rode here, and let the teams themselves sort out who they choose and don't choose to sign. It may well be that we would have had some teams stronger than others due to some with financial constraints, but that is sport. Unfortunately being now only an 8 team Prem, I suppose it comes down to non changing of the rules may well have pushed at least one or two towards the Prem exit door.

Interesting article from Matt Ford in the Echo today about losing out on Ellis at the last minute. Ultimately for me even though I like Matt, I have to say Speedway was the winner in this deal, which isn't quite portrayed in the article where Matt said he was sad to lose out on the deal to get him. The final deal saw both Ellis and Zach W go from Lakeside to Swindon as assets and no doubt part of the deal included both being loaned back to Lakeside to meet up with Morris in the Champ. Suppose you can partly blame our wonderful BSPA and this ridiculous rule that meant neither Eddie Kennett or Scott Nicholls could ride in the Champ this season. I read that both had been earmarked for Lakeside and Cook had to do an about turn to find other riders. Fortunately he did well to get the Swindon deal done which benefited both Clubs for the 2018 season. Means both young Brits get double up deals which will benefit them financially as well as Morris getting similar, and the winners are British Speedway and its fans who get to see all 3 riders in both divisions. I am a Poole fan but live only 30/40 mins drive from Lakeside so I see the bigger picture from the sports perspective on this one.

The big question is how much of the old TJH is left. Some noticed his his weight had gone up which also questions his real motivation. His form in both SWE 1st & 2nd Div was not that great or when he rode Poland so it comes down to is he now a journeyman on the way down or can he hold his own in our weaker Prem in 2018. The cost of possibly flying the guy in and out 2 days per week with the SWE League on a Tuesday & UK on MON/WED & some Thur could be prohibitive for a guy who could be either a bit up on his current GSA/maybe stand still as he sure didn't do himself any favours last season, or even down as you just don't know which way he is going, is a big risk for Chapman imo. Especially after last seasons problems what he doesnt need is an expensive liability/passenger with risks attached. That's the big risk for me. If you had the TJH who rode for Poole some years ago would be a no brainer as they guy was one of the most exciting riders to see on track. Its hard to understand that a guy who was also riding in SGP has fallen so far, yet he has only just turned 29 end of Nov. He rode in 18 SGP's but that seems like an age ago.

I don't disagree but the loss of potentially 50 meetings if you take the Prem/Champ less the Swed meetings as he already rode the POL 2nd Div, how is his experience going to improve with so many less meetings ?? Maybe he feels that as the young Poles are improving without all those extra meetings then maybe he considers himself at a similar level and doesn't need all the travelling around UK. Problem is he is not a Drabik /Smektala or Woryna so he isn't at their level currently imo. Suppose he could sign in Denmark to take up some of the slack as riders can use the same bikes over the 2 Countries as they are now connected via road/bridge and you can do SWE Tue and DK Wed. No doubt we will hear more on his reasons in the coming 2 weeks (if a super deal isn't thrown his way to stay in UK).

Makes you wonder what kind of C.Holder we will get in 2018 if he isn't happy with Matt Ford. I assume he is pi**ed because Matt didn't want Jack back(this coming season anyway). Also probably miffed if has been offered a reduced pay deal at a 7 point man rather than as a number 1 in prev years. If Matt really is only interested in a £25k permanent transfer deal then it would seem maybe all not so good in their relationship ?? A lot could be rumour of course and the deal may already be done and Chris is happy with it, but between the lines and with some of the comments coming from Matt in interviews it does cause some concern. Especially if it is revolving around Chris. The stumbling block now mentioned by Matt in 2 interviews of course could revolve around one his foreign prospects he wants to bring in. Suppose we will just have to wait and see, but if Chris does sign I hope we are getting a happy Chris back at his home club and not one who is riding only because he cant get a move away due to the price tag of the transfer fee.

Maybe using the FB comment/post to see if anyone out there prepared to pay him enough money to stay in UK during next 2 weeks. Cant see any other reason to post the comment he did and invite comments. Cant see how this guy feels that his career will step up with 12 matches in POL LGE 2 if they don't make the play offs and 14 in SWE again if they don't make play offs. Maybe another one who thinks he is worth a lot more than British Speedway can offer in salary. Similar with maybe C.Holder who I heard had been offered as a 7 point man a pay deal rather than a 9 point plus man that he used to be when on top of his game. As for Lambert, why not just post he will not be racing in UK rather than tell people he plans to make an announcement in next 2 weeks. I think this is his way of fishing for a good paying UK deal. I could be wrong of course.

Fingers crossed for a full & speedy recovery for Starman. Whatever people may think of his opinions/comments, he is an institution and long term contributor to the Forum plus a Master on the one line replies ;-) Let's all hope he has as full a recovery as possible, so we can see him back on the Forum asap as well as his beloved Poole Pirates next season.

Who ?? Has someone signed him then ?? I assume you mean Linus Sundstrom ??

Gav He has been bought in to do a job. At 4.54 if you viewed just that Youtube video I posted earlier he was way ahead of Klindt last season even before Klindt's injury. Will he be a top rider ?? - Maybe not, but the question is whether he is a shrewd signing as a reserve at 4.54 even if Woryna starts in the main team. Plus if he does improve and rack up points then you have some decent riders probably further up who can slot in thus hopefully still giving you a strong reserve pairing all season (maybe and speedway is always full of maybe's) Believe me I remember (excuse the spellings) Miskowiak/Marozka/Stachyra to name but 3 of the POL failures so don't need reminding ;-) However Matt S has come in as a reserve with the possibility of anything other than a strong reserve will be a potential bonus, and looking at last seasons performances in the POl Nice 1 where he topped the averages he has at least the potential to do that.

Patronise all you want Steve O. I was against the one over 8 rule and feel for the likes of Swindon/BV/Wolves as a genuine Speedway supporter. Its not all about Poole or any one club but the sport. I think it should have been 2 over 8 and that teams that had built success should have the same rights as others who want to build along similar lines up to the 42.5 limit. The GP rider rule of 9 (if it was applied) would then haven been acceptable in the 2 over 8 rule. However the rules have been set like or hate them by the BSPA . My point is more to the fact that any promoter can go into the market - do his homework and go after potentially top class riders who are below 8 and are not GP riders. Sure they will cost you money as they are better riders than they were when they last rode but that's the trade off isn't it. You get a potentially top rider on a lowish av (especially if there is a rule about a 2% av per season reduction for any riders not having ridden here for more than 2/3 years if not a current GP rider). Swindon as well as BV & Wolves can all go after these guys if they choose to just as Matt Ford can. But as we know Wolves have near enough admitted that the cost involved in getting Lindgren back added to the lack of guaranteed TV revenue has pushed Wolves in the direction they have chosen even though Lindgren's demands were now over excessive. Yes I agree Poole have not been affected by the one over 8 rule as they didn't lose an 8 plus rider. However maybe their choice would not have been to make Brady Kurtz number one preferring at least the option to maybe try and sign a Magic/Piotr Pawlicki or any other GP rider or rider over 8 to fill that role had there been a 2 over 8 rule. Swindon could also have chosen the stronger number one in Doyle but chose the cheaper option just as Wolves have done with Lindgren. More evidence unfortunately at the state of British Speedway in keeping its World Class riders.

We wanted Magic but a rule change put paid to that with the one over eight. We also wanted to consider Piotr Pawlicki but cldnt due to rule change where he would be reassessed at 8 or more, even though not a GP rider in 2018. We could all sit here and go on about losing possibilities with rule changes. BV have the same possibility to go out and get decent riders on reasonable or low GSA's who have ridden here before if your management want to get off their backsides and look around. I am not going to point them out but it doesn't take a mastermind to go back over the last 5 years GSA's and make whatever downward adjustments if they have not ridden in our league for a few years. No different with what Matt Ford has done.

I am sure Matt knows what the averages are for all the riders he wants. He has no doubt checked it all out with the BSPA just as any other promoter/Manager/owner can do in the Prem League. Some don't want to accept that as far as team building for 2018 is concerned it is a level playing field from a points perspective. Any other club can enquire to the BSPA for riders av for the coming season (those who did not ride here in 2017) and there are a whole host of names one could roll off which they could enquire about and get the answers just as Matt has. It may be that the BSPA are deliberately NOT letting Joe Public know these levels as they don't want to prejudice any potential team signings when teams may be in negotiations with potential riders. Frustrating as I find that having a general interest in playing the name the team game, I can perhaps with hindsight understand it. If Matt does turn up another potential rider/s on a possible low GSA for 2018 it will be because he knows what that riders GSA is in advance. If that means riders from previous seasons that have a low GSA still applicable or are discounted due to not having ridden here for ?? years and is not a GP rider than so be it. Every Prem Promoter has the same option available to them. It's not Matts fault if he is ahead of perhaps many in the game. His life is Speedway and his contacts list is large, and that's not taking into account the bank of information on riders stats overseas and also things like Youtube videos/postings that are available to even us humble human beings willing to search it out.. For example the Matt S video I gave a link to earlier, any other Promoter could have checked his background and viewed same video. Whether they choose to, or feel they cannot afford or wont take the risk on some riders is another matter.

Anyone not too familiar with our new signing Matt S pls feel free to look at this Youtube download form last season. For the impatient ones. He scored 12 paid 13 from 5 rides incl beating the likes of one K.Bjerre. If you don't want all of it skip to 26.50 minutes and enjoy the last race where he overtook Lung on the last end of the last race to win and give his team the 4-2 that won the match against the eventual League winners. he can gate and seems a fairly tough rider. Enjoy :-)

I meant not in 2018 GP.

Steve I'm a but confused on this one. General feeling is riders in this seasons SGP have been reassessed at 9. That's fairly clear but then it gets a bit confusing for me. You and some others say that riders can ride at their old av if not a current GP rider. However what about Piotr Pawlicki ??. He is not a GP rider this season and last rode 2014 and achieved 7 plus for Wolves. If we apply the logic he is not in this seasons GP then he should get his old av ?? I question it as Matt Ford allegedly said in an interview in the Echo in the last week that he was considering Pawlicki but had to drop the interest because he believe he will be reassessed being an EX GP rider who had not ridden here since 2014 and would be reassessed at 8 or more meaning he cldnt sign him with Brady announced. It kind of contradicts a bit what some are saying about non GP riders having their old av. Yes he is a very good rider but he is not in this years GP so should he not be one of those who keep his old av ??

Maybe this Polish rule news that many await could have a BIG bearing on the team he wants to put out. Most know that if the Poles relent then chances are NKI will be the first name on the sheet (besides TJ). But Nils is a 9 point plus man which could in effect have a big bearing on the rest of the side where if the Poles don't relax the rules he may have to go in a different direction with perhaps a more strength in depth look. Its frustrating for all you KL fans I do appreciate that, but for the wait if you could have NKI as your number one then I think all KL fans would be more than happy to wait I think. God knows why the Poles are taking so long considering they are normally red hot at sorting out their league matters quickly. I hope they are not being ignorant to the fact that a number of clubs in UK want to know the outcome of this rule for 2018. Its hardly rocket science to say yes its cancelled or no we will keep it in place in which case all the clubs can move on. We all know Nils wants to ride UK and for sure KL is his home club, also being based in UK more locally than most other Prem sides. Even not as a KL supporter I hope you get NKI and can also build a decent side around him and TJ for 2018, as nobody wants to see KL 2017 all over again after last year. True Speedway supporters want all clubs to have decent riders in all teams.

Nobody can deny Kyle's loyalty to the club. He has Poole blood in his veins. HOWEVER - Let's not lose sight of what Kyle achieved in the seasons 2014/15/16. In all 3 seasons as one of the top 3/4 Elite draft riders he got in on 3 for 2 seasons and 4.10 for 1 season. Meaning in all 3 seasons he started at reserve and in effect near enough stayed there all season despite his GSA outstripping some of his more senior team mates. One could argue that it gave him a kind of false av as an EDR meaning he could score well above his EDR rating. Many of his points were scored against inferior and in many cases vastly inexperienced riders and its incredible to think we had a whole season near enough of Kyle & Starke riding as EDR reserves. No wonder we won the league with such a pairing. Now I wont deny for one minute that Kyle did have some mega rides at times like he did in those 2016 semi final meetings against Wolves and Woffinden but overall it has to be put in perspective against many of the riders he did meet for the majority of those seasons homes & away. In 2017 he no longer had that cushion and with a combination of a couple of injuries and no longer facing mainly EDR quality riders most of the time his av arguably suffered in both Prem , plus he didn't do so great at Ipswich in Champ either at just over 6. He got over his early season injury which helped lose his place at Poole, but at the end of the season he still only had a GSA of 4.86 from 15 meetings for Leicester and 6.10 from 27 meetings for Ipswich. The question is: Was Kyle's av artificially high for those 3 seasons he spent near enough as an EDR rider and is his real av what he achieved with Leicester and Ipswich, although even then he was lowest of the Leicester riders and was riding mainly as reserve so not always against the big hitters. As much as Kyle's loyalty and love of Poole, we are ultimately in a results driven business. Matt Ford must have some reservations as to where Kyle's career may be heading at 26 next week, especially when one see's how Kyle Howarth who is the nearest rider of comparable ability I compared him with over the last 4/5 years has moved forward. In 2014/15 Newman for me was the better and more exciting rider of the two. However for me Newman has not gone forward like Howarth has and the GSA's do not lie in both Prem and Champ. I agree Newman's injuries over the last few seasons has not helped BUT that is another factor that potentially works against Matt signing him as he has had to miss part of the season in nearly every one in the last 3/4 years. And yes I do accept that Poole's poorly prepared track in that start of season open meeting last season sure played its part in crocking him yet again. I would always have had Kyle back as a reserve but I think Matt feels he has maybe got that covered with Woryna and will possibly use someone like Shames on 1.91 points less than Kyle so he can use that further up the team to give more strength in depth

He is not listed only because no contract has been signed yet. Was confirmed in the Echo the other day. Poole purchased him as an asset I believe from Coventry but he is only seeing Matt Ford during the first 2 weeks of December where a contract for 2018 will be discussed and hopefully signed. The article was reported in the Bournemouth Echo 30th Nov for those who want to see it. That is why the SGB site removed it as he had not actually signed a contract yet. Some had wrongly assumed he was signed hence why he was shown on the SGB team riders signed for 2018 section (in error).

Chances are there will be even more changes to limits for 2019. Problem is that none of the riders will know about it until after the GSA AGM after next season, so yes can see some crazy goings on in 2018. Suppose some could say that depending upon your av you will be fighting your own team member to finish behind him when team riding 1st & 2nd or 2nd & 3rd as bonus points don't count for GSA's. That would be funny seeing 2 x 8 or close to 8 guys in the same team/race trying to race behind each other to keep their GSA down. It will be a case of what happens when you open a door for someone "After you" - "No I insist after you". Let's go to one league and do away with all these crazy rules. Sorry I meant BSPA AGM.

Hi MFF Can you advise where these 2 highlighted comments are posted as I can find no ref to 5 new riders (whether that may be incl or excl C.Holder. Also cant find any ref to at least two riders who could possibly overtake him although both CH and Woryna are the names who would immediately spring to mind. Have looked at the Poole FB page and Twitter as well as SGB Twitter and no ref to other riders especially about 5 new riders. Also I notice this evening that Woryna has been REMOVED from the Poole 2018 Taem riders announced section on SGB. it was there yesterday and I think earlier today. Maybe some at the SGB/BSPA do read poster comments on the BSF after all. Well sometimes that is ;-)