STEVEHOLS54

Yep I agree. The BSPA knew about this one over 8 rule well before the AGM imo. The Tenerife meeting was probably only to confirm the already agreed draft. That being so I fully agree the powers that be should already have been well in advance on drawing up the list plus also the guidelines on what assessment would be given to overseas riders say under 21 who have never ridden in UK plus also what assessment for riders over 21 like Pieszczek who have never ridden UK. Find it a bit strange that Leicester have signed 2 riders with no assessed GSA unless they re just taking a gung ho approach with the attitude fill in lower down the team as and went we have to. Can imagine there are plenty of teams urgently awaiting what these assessed GSA's and guidelines will be for both older & younger overseas riders who may be considering UK. Also are we to assume that riders who rode here 2016 or later will be assessed as per their last GSA such as Zagar/NKI/Woryna etc. That's without considering say riders who rode here last 2015 or earlier like Pawlicki/Zmarzlik & others.What also will be the cut off year for keeping a previous GSA. Plenty of grey areas at the moment which is partly blocking promoters team building plans.

Thought I read that Doyle was only just flying back from Aussie as he was stuck at the airport in sweltering heat the other day. Made the mistake of trying to fly an engine back with him which held things up. Assuming he is just back in last few hours or so plus believe he is off to Andorra for a big Motorcycle Awards do this weekend perhaps the crunch talks will happen early next week ??

But is the tactical only once ???? I have seen nothing put out by the BSPA saying only once in a meeting. There have been forum contributors who have had their own comment on it being only once (they think) but pls let me know where it has been formalised as only once. The BSPA announcement said: TACTICAL SUBS: Black and White double points replaced with tactical substitution permitted in heats 5 to 14 (excluding heat 8) when a team is 6 points or more behind. For clarity there are NO double points. Would be good to get some formal clarification on it. Would be good if it said it can be used more than once and each rider can only have one tactical ride from the main team. Like many other things not known for sure like rider assessed GSA if they rode before 2016 or what young riders say 21 or under who have never ridden UK will be assessed at.

Exactly. Most agree that riders who rode prior to 2016 and not since should have their GSA's reassessed as many like Pawliki (2015) and Zmarzlik (2014) were very young riders who were learning their trade on the way to becoming superstars of the GP. I think most of the BV fans who seem to be incl Zagar already in their plans are excited because his last achieved GSA in 2016 was 7.48. Based on your logic then, having won 2 GP last season and been in top 8 of the SGP he should be at least 9 plus. Don't get me wrong I think both Woryna and Zagar are on great averages as per 2016 and it will be shrewd promoters who sign both riders especially with this one over the 8 rule and a 42.5 team building limit. As for Woryna - He is and was in 2016 a young rider who has proved nothing on UK tracks yet. IF he accumulates the points and masters our UK tracks then of course that will be reflected in his GSA for 2019. Let's not punish forward thinking promoters who has the insight to sign a young rider on a decent low av. There are other young Poles as well as Swedes and danes who fall into similar situations where a switched on promoter can take a leap of faith if he wants to. Same on Zagar. He stands out at that av on the form he showed in the second half of 2017 in GP/SWE/POL after he managed to get his misfiring Johns tuned engines finally resolved. He flew at many meetings and I would have him on that GSA.

Still the big question could you sign him anyway ?? I have not seen anywhere that the Poles have lifted the 3 max league rule incl your nationality league if you are riding POL EXL. Unless they announce that he can only sign for DK anyway as he wont drop POL or SWE. You can use same argument to numerous riders incl the likes of K Bjerre who although sounding peed off about the one rider only over 8 rule has not got the green light as far as I am aware he can ride UK anyway having signed like NKI for POL EXL and Sweden. he got away with it last year as his team were in POL Nice 1 so like Hans Andersen could do all 4 leagues. Not any more as Bjerre's team are now POL EXL.

Hopefully not as he did ride here in 2016. Part of the reason Matt signed him one assumes is that he would be rated at 4.65 as per 2016. If you apply that logic then you surely have to adjust multiple GP winner Zagar up from his last 2016 GSA of 7.48 to at least 9.50. Hopefully you are wrong on this one. Of course would help if they released the new GSA and guidelines for all these potential riders (and youngsters) who may want to come over.

Adam was discounted due to the high GSA under the x 1.4 rule which unfairly punished him for not having had another NL campaign or had a season in Champ where he may well have got a lower GSA. Those foreign riders you mention. You mean Kurtz and Holder Jr who were assessed on similar GSA. Think I know who I prefer to watch as potential World stars. Kyle was as a result of cruel circumstances. Yes he had a bad injury (again) which had him struggling. He had a GSA of 6.31 but was only achieving a real 3.53 and showing no signs at that stage of improving. Matt Ford had a difficult decision to make as he cld fill up to 6.31 or persevere with a rider who was putting in 3.53 and even at end of season only really achieved 4.86. So what does he do because that clown KK was hardly helping matters for those further down the team. It was a difficult biz decision for Ford to take for the betterment of the team at that time. There were circumstances out of the ordinary that affected both riders imo.

Yes with the big pay cheque on a 3 year deal from the man who purchased the club recently and paid off all the debts. On top of that because he isn't tied to POL EXL he can show off all his fancy merchandise/sponsorship till his hearts content as they pay a fair chunk of change I believe. Add the big money he was paid by the man with the deep pockets together with no restriction on how many sponsor stickers he can have on his bike/silencers/water/Monster drink bottles etc at those all important interviews. In his later years he needs his image rights money as much as the salary as can imagine its a lot of bucks as the Yanks would say.

For me the Ellis situation makes the second Brit position (if it still is) somewhat interesting. Assuming we were to sign Shanes as one of the Brits. Some have mentioned maybe Robert Lambert. I think he needs a move away from KL and also maybe if he was on Poole radar he could do worse than be given accommodation by Matt or Middlo and a workshop facility as well as maybe engineer and sponsor support. He could still get home to Norfolk some days as he will now be doing POL/SWE and UK every week. UK sometimes 2 days a week. I just feel young Rob needs a new challenge maybe also riding with other young up and coming young riders such as Woryna and any other young guys we may sign. Anyway just a thought. As for Kyle there are from me 2 things. 1) Can the guy be kept fit as he seems to have had one injury or another the last 3/4 seasons keeping him out for various periods. 2) The tasty looking 4.86 GSA looks very tempting for team building also taking Shanes low 2.95. The BIG point for me is could he be an ideal rider to slot into that reserve slot once hopefully Woryna moves out end May/early June. The answer could be yes as we all know he has scored many points from that berth both when he was one over the last 4 years or so. Also could be a good team rider to help James. I think the reserve berths at Poole could play a big role as they have done in our last few league winning seasons. I view this coming season as who will be the best rider who can slot into that reserve berth with Shanes after the first GSA's come out. Not only from the reserve allocated rides but as a possible replacement also for a rider having an off night or to replace the other reserve when required. One could argue that Newman filled that roll well when at Poole in previous years. Am sure there are plenty of ideas knocking around but of course only one man knows the answer and that's Matt Ford. He may well already have that rider signed or earmarked. We await some news ;-)

I think that is the secret in early part of the season. Believe the new GSA's only come into effect when?? End May early June ?? Meaning they could have a hidden gem for 2.5 months until he moves up to main team. For me the secret at Poole will be who is best to drop into that reserve roll after he moves out, as if Shanes does get signed (to help points further up the team) then they want a strong potential reserve and for me the likes of Holder Jr, Ellis, Gomolski (just a few to be named) would be ideal. But we shall see in the coming weeks. Shame your lot not moving up but look fwd to seeing them at my local club (Lakeside) which is only 30 mins drive away as I am in Chelmsford. Yep mate not so far from your neck of the woods ;-) Not all doom & gloom at the BSPA as this AGM gives me the choice of a 3 plus hour drive to see the Prem team I support plus a 30 min drive on non clashing nights (or Sun) to see the best of Champ and some of the future of the sport in UK such as Jack P.B - Jack Smith - Bewley and others.

I read on the main Polish Spdwy site that Josh intends taking some POL Speedway exams and expects to be spending more time there now he is signed up for 2017 to POL Nice 1 (I think). Would not surprise me that being one of those 7 plus point men who will no doubt be in demand for 2018 then he may try and sign for a team further north to his home town Sheffield I think. I reckon he will still double up as he has done for years but may try and not have that horrendous round trip for every home match. I may be wrong as he's been a great servant to Somerset in both Prem and Champ, but I would not blame him for trying to reduce commuting.

Maybe I don't understand the POL rule correctly. I thought if you were POL EXL you could ride max 3 leagues INL POL EXL and your National League (Bjerre is a Dane yes). Same with NKI. Both may live mainly in UK but both are Danish nationals right ?? So my understanding was POL/SWE (as both have signed there) plus only DK or if they want to ride UK they would have to drop SWE which we know no chance due to money involved. Therefore if you are going to try and get around it by declaring UK residence then should they also NOT be incl in Hans Nielsen's Danish National Team as they have been declared in 2018 and should now be in UK Team. Not being cynical or sarcastic but I thought the rule was 3 leagues INCL your Nationality League not where you reside due to say relationships. Ok you could say what about the Aussies but the authorities deemed that as Aussie does not have league racing and as most Aussies reside in UK due to it being a different hemisphere they would allow Aussies to nominate Uk as a National League. Or is my understanding wrong ??

Gav Madsen has not signed for any SWE side in 2018 and he rode for the Champs Smederna in 2017 (League winners). All the top riders have already signed up in Oct/Nov and near enough all the main slots have gone with exception of maybe some SWE junior slots. The only other major non SWE signing was Vaculik not signing preferring to ride UK in 2018 for more smaller/technical track experience. Before you go writing Madsen off consider the flwg: In 2009 as a 20 year old he rode only 7 matches. In 2010 as a 21 year old he rode in 29 matches for a GSA of 6.10. In comparison a certain My Jason Doyle who is 3 years older was achieving GSA's of between 4/5.50. One thing I always thought Madsen could do was just as Jason could do was electric gating. Something that imo has held both riders in good stead as their careers have progressed. You cannot judge a rider who rode here for 1 and a bit seasons at 2o/21 compared to a rider just now turned 29 in September and who has climbed to 4th in the av of the best and hardest league in the World i.e POL EXL. Maybe at times you may well think he has as one poster put it "bottled it" (in SEC). BUT his league form has been exceptionally good in POL EXL. If you need any more evidence then he helped Smederna win the SWE league this season just gone. Feel free to view his performance in the 2nd leg of the final on youtube. Its only 25 mins long but shows what he can do incl winning the final race of the night. He is a more mature and better rider than his early days, and if Ford can get him on a sensible GSA then for sure worth considering. P.S: His gating still a big asset from what I can see and that's half the battle.

Must have high hopes or be in advanced talks to sign for a WED UK team then ?? Maybe he will be doubling up in 2018 as no SWE contract and only POL 2nd Div at present having had to drop to lowest POL League in last minute signing as seems he wasn't wanted in POL LGE 1. Hope the guy does get sorted as after his nasty injury in 2017 he deserves some better luck.

Think its def 5.51 as per his final 2015 GSA. Just saw the final GSA's. On the team one he is blanked out showing the higher av as that was the 1/4 x uplift all riders initially got for the start of 2017. BUT as we all know riders were adjusted back down to their actual GSA's around end of May when first real GSA's came out and were updated based on what they had achived so far up until end of May. Secondly Gomolski had only ridden for Leicester 5 matches for 21 rides with a GSA of 4.20 but not enough to get him that bargain looking 4.20 GSA :-( If he was given his 5.51 I would say maybe worth a gamble. Def yes if we had Santa come early and he got 4.20. You are right that the guy had a half decent year dropping to Nice POL 1 last season9th in Av only 2 behind Hans A which makes the GSA he gets look more important in considering him as is he more of a candidate based on that than say Hans at some 2.25 points higher. The thing is you know Hans will probably score more away. But the recent Polish stats don't lie on total rides in POL Nice 1 last season. Close to quality of our Prem (maybe they are a bit higher in overall quality). Hans record finishing 1st/2nd/3rd/4th was - 28/29/19/3 Gomolski record was - 29/25/20/3 Kacper will be just turned 25 when season starts in March as his birthday is 2nd March. Hans will be 37 as his Birthday was 3rd Nov.

Maybe not such a daft idea though, as all those loan fees he can get probably contribute to the costs of some of the new riders he has coming in or in mind for the future :-)

Bjerre situ confuses me a little. He said on twitter he's not happy with the one over 8 rule. BUT as it stands currently, so far the Poles have not relaxed the max league rule meaning he now being a POL EXL rider is allowed 3 leagues incl his home league so he has already signed in POL/SWE (which for sure he wont drop for UK) meaning he can only sign for DK anyway even though not so many meetings. If they relax the rules, (which no announcement on yet from the Poles although only expected that anyway after the BSPA announced fixed days not clashing with POL EXL weekends- IF they relax that is), then its a similar situ to NKI who is caught in same boat as Bjerre. So how can one talk of loyalty for example as if the Poles don't relax the rules then for sure NKI nor Bjerre would not give up POL or SWE meaning they would drop UK anyway. Many forget he got away with it last year due to riding POL Nice 1, but his team were promoted so he now comes (one assumes) under the POL EXL rule on max leagues.

Thanks for the update Skidder :-) I like many are eager to learn what the various av will come out at. No easy job as will they leave 2016/17 GSA as is. What do they do about riders in 2013/14/15 (not a massive list but still a list). You have riders who were younger in those years and have improved just as maybe some haven't or are not so good as they were back then. Similar as to what do they do to assess young Poles who have ridden mainly against other juniors in POL EXL plus having never done UK. How do you assess those plus young Danes and swedes that MAYBE a promoter/manager may want to sign. There are plenty of exciting youngsters out there that are not brits who may have big future sin the Sport. Not naming any as want my team to get in first if possible ;-) On the youngster under 21 situation it isn't really that major a job. If you take the top 2 juniors in each POL EXL team then you have similar (maybe not so many ??) in SWE and DK. probably no more than 30/35 riders max to give an assessment on, made easier as they are 21 or under and have never ridden in UK. At least an early release of all this info then gives a level playing field for all those promoters/managers who may want to approach the riders if they are interested to come to UK and get that all important experience on our smaller/more technical tracks. Lets also hope its made available to all and not just the inner sanctum of promoters/managers ;-)

Hope they sort it sooner rather than later. They have probably all known about this 8 point proposal well in advance and should have had the calculators out already or what the plans are for said riders as its obvious to most that riders up to 8 would now be in demand. A number of which had not ridden here for 2/3/4 years. Also rules governing young riders as mentioned in my last post. Not sure how long that takes to decide but having taken such a big decision on the 1 x 8 point or plus rule they should have the back up decision for the riders in question (and young riders) quickly following on so that the decision makers in the teams can plasn accordingly. For example: Matt may well know who he wants as number one so maybe sorted but what if he wanted Janowski/one or both Pawlicki's or Milik or any host of riders who rode here below or above 8 prior to 2016/17 ?? Secondly what if Matt wants an exciting young Pole (or Swede or Dane). He gets Woryna on 4.65 as one assumes he will be allowed his 2016 GSA. I would have thought this was clarified by the relevant authorities prior to him signing him for 2018. What would other youngsters from overseas who have for example never ridden here be assessed on. How can you plan a team if you are ready to sound out riders around Europe if you have no idea what GSA they will be given ??

Knowing he is now an in demand rider could he maybe use that to his advantage to get a team further North. We know Josh is based I think up Sheffield way ?? and it was a massive round trip for him on worse traffic night of the week (Friday) to do week in and week out. Over the last 4 plus years this guy has done so much doubling up and guesting around the UK its been unreal and now he also has Poland etc. Maybe he will look at reducing the mind sapping weekly commute and look at options nearer to home ?? Just a thought. Also the Forum on all PREM topics is awash with this 8 point rule. I personally think it would be so much easier for many to swallow if the BSPA/SCB said ok this is the situation on riders GSA's for 2018 in Prem. Riders who rode up to season xyz will be assessed at their last GSA. Riders who rode prior to this will be assessed at abc or reassessed individually and say taking the ?? seasons prior to the above those riders (name if need be) will be cde Riders who have never ridden in Prem (name them if need be) will be assessed at ??? Young riders under 21 (for example POL juniors who have raced in the main against similar or with some exposure to rides against seniors) but have never ridden in Prem will be assessed at ??? If you set a rule that only one rider over 8 then surely you have to set the ground rules on how other riders outside of those who rode in Prem in 2017 will be assessed. Otherwise how can a club look to sign other riders or exciting young overseas talent for 2018 or at least consider them in team planning awaiting outcome of if that rider wants to sign or not. Why cant the paying fan who pays for part of the sport be kept informed of this. We all want to do fantasy build the team and sure doesn't help when you don't have a clue how many of the riders who may come here would be assessed points wise. Personally I quite like the 1 x 8 or over point idea proposed as team managers/promoters now have to be clued up to build a well balanced team. But, it would be so much simpler and I think more widely accepted if it was circulated how riders coming in would be assessed for 2018. You can still build strong teams with current/ex and future SGP riders if we all knew what points they are getting as a GSA or what they will be assessed as if new riders etc as referred to above. How about. Because he is your asset and getting a loan fee partly offsets the cost of another rider you may want to sign for the current season. There could be various reasons why you may not want that rider. Maybe a NKI isn't what you want as you would prefer a nearer 8 rider like Brady to help keep that extra 1 point plus for a more in depth look to the team. Getting a loan fee for say NKI (who may not want to ride for Poole anyway being based over Norfolk way) could help subsidise a move for another possibly exciting rider coming in at below 8 like a Milik/both Pawlicki's/Madsen (the list is long if you look around the GSA's over the last 4/5 years). Notwithstanding other young foreign talent who have not ridden UK before. Similar with other Matt Ford assets where he can get a loan fee to pay towards other riders he is interested in if that asset doesn't formulate part of his team planning for 2018.

Of course the devil could be in the detail. Why ??? If the BSPA/SCB allow riders back on their old GSA then you could have GP stars past/present and probably future riding IF 1) They want to come back to ride in UK and If the Poles relax the max league rules for 2018. I thought they were waiting until the AGM was finalised on fixed race days etc before deciding, otherwise why would NKI have been so public about riding in UK in Speedway star and social media. When you think about it you have riders such as both Pawlicki's/Milik/Madsen/Lebedevs and no doubt numerous others who could ride here in 2018 if they a re assessed at their old GSA's or below 8 on new GSA's depending upon what the authorities have (or not) agreed. Unfortunately none of this info released so we are in the dark.

Don't quite know what to make of this comment from Matt in the Echo. “I don’t necessarily believe a higher average will help some of the younger riders at the bottom end of the team because I think there may be a few more experienced riders coming back to this country. He isn't even guaranteeing Shanes a spot saying he has to look at the numbers. Only young riders I can think of further down the team are Holder Jr and Shanes from last season. Not unusual for the echo to throw names around but none of us know what the POL regulations will be (assume they will now decide as BSPA AGM finished). Plus what will riders who rode in previous seasons such as 2014/15/16 be assessed at as a GSA. Also what about young poles Poles etc who may only have ridden as Juniors in their teams. Can you really have a crazy situation where Woryna gets in on 4.65 but some other high profile juniors (prefer not to name in case on Matt's shopping list) get assessed at say 6 or 7. Would be good if BSPA or SCB (whoever decides these things) put out some clarification. For me seems still a few grey areas need clarification. But then again we are only the fans who support the sport i.e the mushrooms who are kept in the dark ;-)

It doesn't take long for the usual subjects to turn a sensible forum subject like Poole 2018 into a total farce..... Come on guys - Lets keep the discussion to Poole 2018 with sensible comment - disagreement or agreement to ideas and sensible alternatives. Its a pain in the backside when us genuine speedway supporters open up our teams topic only to find its filled with nonsense and personal back biting. I am all up for friendly banter but prefer we keep it to the subject matter for the benefit of the majority and not the trolls who seem to enjoy winding certain others up :-)

Well lets hope Matt puts that one to bed sooner rather than later so we can move on to other team news not revolving around Jack. I can see from earlier comments that we have as many yes as we have no so opinion I suppose is split.

Gav Was just making the point that its always a shame to see a successful team split up due to the rules but that's the way it is. You have shown above that being creative can generate still strong teams depending upon how you go about it. Maybe Zagar and Tai wont come back to UK but the creative managers/promoters can still find plenty of good talent with heat leader potential below 8 points IF they can tempt them back to UK. Same with some of the junior Poles for example who are way ahead of many of our riders top flight or juniors. The $64,000 question though is what GSA's are both thee young riders as well as foreign riders who rode last in 2015 or earlier going to be assessed at. Will we the Joe public even be given access to what the guidelines will be. Would be nice that we are not just kept in the dark ;-)