STEVEHOLS54

I don't disagree but the loss of potentially 50 meetings if you take the Prem/Champ less the Swed meetings as he already rode the POL 2nd Div, how is his experience going to improve with so many less meetings ?? Maybe he feels that as the young Poles are improving without all those extra meetings then maybe he considers himself at a similar level and doesn't need all the travelling around UK. Problem is he is not a Drabik /Smektala or Woryna so he isn't at their level currently imo. Suppose he could sign in Denmark to take up some of the slack as riders can use the same bikes over the 2 Countries as they are now connected via road/bridge and you can do SWE Tue and DK Wed. No doubt we will hear more on his reasons in the coming 2 weeks (if a super deal isn't thrown his way to stay in UK).

Makes you wonder what kind of C.Holder we will get in 2018 if he isn't happy with Matt Ford. I assume he is pi**ed because Matt didn't want Jack back(this coming season anyway). Also probably miffed if has been offered a reduced pay deal at a 7 point man rather than as a number 1 in prev years. If Matt really is only interested in a £25k permanent transfer deal then it would seem maybe all not so good in their relationship ?? A lot could be rumour of course and the deal may already be done and Chris is happy with it, but between the lines and with some of the comments coming from Matt in interviews it does cause some concern. Especially if it is revolving around Chris. The stumbling block now mentioned by Matt in 2 interviews of course could revolve around one his foreign prospects he wants to bring in. Suppose we will just have to wait and see, but if Chris does sign I hope we are getting a happy Chris back at his home club and not one who is riding only because he cant get a move away due to the price tag of the transfer fee.

Maybe using the FB comment/post to see if anyone out there prepared to pay him enough money to stay in UK during next 2 weeks. Cant see any other reason to post the comment he did and invite comments. Cant see how this guy feels that his career will step up with 12 matches in POL LGE 2 if they don't make the play offs and 14 in SWE again if they don't make play offs. Maybe another one who thinks he is worth a lot more than British Speedway can offer in salary. Similar with maybe C.Holder who I heard had been offered as a 7 point man a pay deal rather than a 9 point plus man that he used to be when on top of his game. As for Lambert, why not just post he will not be racing in UK rather than tell people he plans to make an announcement in next 2 weeks. I think this is his way of fishing for a good paying UK deal. I could be wrong of course.

Fingers crossed for a full & speedy recovery for Starman. Whatever people may think of his opinions/comments, he is an institution and long term contributor to the Forum plus a Master on the one line replies ;-) Let's all hope he has as full a recovery as possible, so we can see him back on the Forum asap as well as his beloved Poole Pirates next season.

Who ?? Has someone signed him then ?? I assume you mean Linus Sundstrom ??

Gav He has been bought in to do a job. At 4.54 if you viewed just that Youtube video I posted earlier he was way ahead of Klindt last season even before Klindt's injury. Will he be a top rider ?? - Maybe not, but the question is whether he is a shrewd signing as a reserve at 4.54 even if Woryna starts in the main team. Plus if he does improve and rack up points then you have some decent riders probably further up who can slot in thus hopefully still giving you a strong reserve pairing all season (maybe and speedway is always full of maybe's) Believe me I remember (excuse the spellings) Miskowiak/Marozka/Stachyra to name but 3 of the POL failures so don't need reminding ;-) However Matt S has come in as a reserve with the possibility of anything other than a strong reserve will be a potential bonus, and looking at last seasons performances in the POl Nice 1 where he topped the averages he has at least the potential to do that.

Patronise all you want Steve O. I was against the one over 8 rule and feel for the likes of Swindon/BV/Wolves as a genuine Speedway supporter. Its not all about Poole or any one club but the sport. I think it should have been 2 over 8 and that teams that had built success should have the same rights as others who want to build along similar lines up to the 42.5 limit. The GP rider rule of 9 (if it was applied) would then haven been acceptable in the 2 over 8 rule. However the rules have been set like or hate them by the BSPA . My point is more to the fact that any promoter can go into the market - do his homework and go after potentially top class riders who are below 8 and are not GP riders. Sure they will cost you money as they are better riders than they were when they last rode but that's the trade off isn't it. You get a potentially top rider on a lowish av (especially if there is a rule about a 2% av per season reduction for any riders not having ridden here for more than 2/3 years if not a current GP rider). Swindon as well as BV & Wolves can all go after these guys if they choose to just as Matt Ford can. But as we know Wolves have near enough admitted that the cost involved in getting Lindgren back added to the lack of guaranteed TV revenue has pushed Wolves in the direction they have chosen even though Lindgren's demands were now over excessive. Yes I agree Poole have not been affected by the one over 8 rule as they didn't lose an 8 plus rider. However maybe their choice would not have been to make Brady Kurtz number one preferring at least the option to maybe try and sign a Magic/Piotr Pawlicki or any other GP rider or rider over 8 to fill that role had there been a 2 over 8 rule. Swindon could also have chosen the stronger number one in Doyle but chose the cheaper option just as Wolves have done with Lindgren. More evidence unfortunately at the state of British Speedway in keeping its World Class riders.

We wanted Magic but a rule change put paid to that with the one over eight. We also wanted to consider Piotr Pawlicki but cldnt due to rule change where he would be reassessed at 8 or more, even though not a GP rider in 2018. We could all sit here and go on about losing possibilities with rule changes. BV have the same possibility to go out and get decent riders on reasonable or low GSA's who have ridden here before if your management want to get off their backsides and look around. I am not going to point them out but it doesn't take a mastermind to go back over the last 5 years GSA's and make whatever downward adjustments if they have not ridden in our league for a few years. No different with what Matt Ford has done.

I am sure Matt knows what the averages are for all the riders he wants. He has no doubt checked it all out with the BSPA just as any other promoter/Manager/owner can do in the Prem League. Some don't want to accept that as far as team building for 2018 is concerned it is a level playing field from a points perspective. Any other club can enquire to the BSPA for riders av for the coming season (those who did not ride here in 2017) and there are a whole host of names one could roll off which they could enquire about and get the answers just as Matt has. It may be that the BSPA are deliberately NOT letting Joe Public know these levels as they don't want to prejudice any potential team signings when teams may be in negotiations with potential riders. Frustrating as I find that having a general interest in playing the name the team game, I can perhaps with hindsight understand it. If Matt does turn up another potential rider/s on a possible low GSA for 2018 it will be because he knows what that riders GSA is in advance. If that means riders from previous seasons that have a low GSA still applicable or are discounted due to not having ridden here for ?? years and is not a GP rider than so be it. Every Prem Promoter has the same option available to them. It's not Matts fault if he is ahead of perhaps many in the game. His life is Speedway and his contacts list is large, and that's not taking into account the bank of information on riders stats overseas and also things like Youtube videos/postings that are available to even us humble human beings willing to search it out.. For example the Matt S video I gave a link to earlier, any other Promoter could have checked his background and viewed same video. Whether they choose to, or feel they cannot afford or wont take the risk on some riders is another matter.

Anyone not too familiar with our new signing Matt S pls feel free to look at this Youtube download form last season. For the impatient ones. He scored 12 paid 13 from 5 rides incl beating the likes of one K.Bjerre. If you don't want all of it skip to 26.50 minutes and enjoy the last race where he overtook Lung on the last end of the last race to win and give his team the 4-2 that won the match against the eventual League winners. he can gate and seems a fairly tough rider. Enjoy :-)

I meant not in 2018 GP.

Steve I'm a but confused on this one. General feeling is riders in this seasons SGP have been reassessed at 9. That's fairly clear but then it gets a bit confusing for me. You and some others say that riders can ride at their old av if not a current GP rider. However what about Piotr Pawlicki ??. He is not a GP rider this season and last rode 2014 and achieved 7 plus for Wolves. If we apply the logic he is not in this seasons GP then he should get his old av ?? I question it as Matt Ford allegedly said in an interview in the Echo in the last week that he was considering Pawlicki but had to drop the interest because he believe he will be reassessed being an EX GP rider who had not ridden here since 2014 and would be reassessed at 8 or more meaning he cldnt sign him with Brady announced. It kind of contradicts a bit what some are saying about non GP riders having their old av. Yes he is a very good rider but he is not in this years GP so should he not be one of those who keep his old av ??

Maybe this Polish rule news that many await could have a BIG bearing on the team he wants to put out. Most know that if the Poles relent then chances are NKI will be the first name on the sheet (besides TJ). But Nils is a 9 point plus man which could in effect have a big bearing on the rest of the side where if the Poles don't relax the rules he may have to go in a different direction with perhaps a more strength in depth look. Its frustrating for all you KL fans I do appreciate that, but for the wait if you could have NKI as your number one then I think all KL fans would be more than happy to wait I think. God knows why the Poles are taking so long considering they are normally red hot at sorting out their league matters quickly. I hope they are not being ignorant to the fact that a number of clubs in UK want to know the outcome of this rule for 2018. Its hardly rocket science to say yes its cancelled or no we will keep it in place in which case all the clubs can move on. We all know Nils wants to ride UK and for sure KL is his home club, also being based in UK more locally than most other Prem sides. Even not as a KL supporter I hope you get NKI and can also build a decent side around him and TJ for 2018, as nobody wants to see KL 2017 all over again after last year. True Speedway supporters want all clubs to have decent riders in all teams.

Nobody can deny Kyle's loyalty to the club. He has Poole blood in his veins. HOWEVER - Let's not lose sight of what Kyle achieved in the seasons 2014/15/16. In all 3 seasons as one of the top 3/4 Elite draft riders he got in on 3 for 2 seasons and 4.10 for 1 season. Meaning in all 3 seasons he started at reserve and in effect near enough stayed there all season despite his GSA outstripping some of his more senior team mates. One could argue that it gave him a kind of false av as an EDR meaning he could score well above his EDR rating. Many of his points were scored against inferior and in many cases vastly inexperienced riders and its incredible to think we had a whole season near enough of Kyle & Starke riding as EDR reserves. No wonder we won the league with such a pairing. Now I wont deny for one minute that Kyle did have some mega rides at times like he did in those 2016 semi final meetings against Wolves and Woffinden but overall it has to be put in perspective against many of the riders he did meet for the majority of those seasons homes & away. In 2017 he no longer had that cushion and with a combination of a couple of injuries and no longer facing mainly EDR quality riders most of the time his av arguably suffered in both Prem , plus he didn't do so great at Ipswich in Champ either at just over 6. He got over his early season injury which helped lose his place at Poole, but at the end of the season he still only had a GSA of 4.86 from 15 meetings for Leicester and 6.10 from 27 meetings for Ipswich. The question is: Was Kyle's av artificially high for those 3 seasons he spent near enough as an EDR rider and is his real av what he achieved with Leicester and Ipswich, although even then he was lowest of the Leicester riders and was riding mainly as reserve so not always against the big hitters. As much as Kyle's loyalty and love of Poole, we are ultimately in a results driven business. Matt Ford must have some reservations as to where Kyle's career may be heading at 26 next week, especially when one see's how Kyle Howarth who is the nearest rider of comparable ability I compared him with over the last 4/5 years has moved forward. In 2014/15 Newman for me was the better and more exciting rider of the two. However for me Newman has not gone forward like Howarth has and the GSA's do not lie in both Prem and Champ. I agree Newman's injuries over the last few seasons has not helped BUT that is another factor that potentially works against Matt signing him as he has had to miss part of the season in nearly every one in the last 3/4 years. And yes I do accept that Poole's poorly prepared track in that start of season open meeting last season sure played its part in crocking him yet again. I would always have had Kyle back as a reserve but I think Matt feels he has maybe got that covered with Woryna and will possibly use someone like Shames on 1.91 points less than Kyle so he can use that further up the team to give more strength in depth

He is not listed only because no contract has been signed yet. Was confirmed in the Echo the other day. Poole purchased him as an asset I believe from Coventry but he is only seeing Matt Ford during the first 2 weeks of December where a contract for 2018 will be discussed and hopefully signed. The article was reported in the Bournemouth Echo 30th Nov for those who want to see it. That is why the SGB site removed it as he had not actually signed a contract yet. Some had wrongly assumed he was signed hence why he was shown on the SGB team riders signed for 2018 section (in error).

Chances are there will be even more changes to limits for 2019. Problem is that none of the riders will know about it until after the GSA AGM after next season, so yes can see some crazy goings on in 2018. Suppose some could say that depending upon your av you will be fighting your own team member to finish behind him when team riding 1st & 2nd or 2nd & 3rd as bonus points don't count for GSA's. That would be funny seeing 2 x 8 or close to 8 guys in the same team/race trying to race behind each other to keep their GSA down. It will be a case of what happens when you open a door for someone "After you" - "No I insist after you". Let's go to one league and do away with all these crazy rules. Sorry I meant BSPA AGM.

Hi MFF Can you advise where these 2 highlighted comments are posted as I can find no ref to 5 new riders (whether that may be incl or excl C.Holder. Also cant find any ref to at least two riders who could possibly overtake him although both CH and Woryna are the names who would immediately spring to mind. Have looked at the Poole FB page and Twitter as well as SGB Twitter and no ref to other riders especially about 5 new riders. Also I notice this evening that Woryna has been REMOVED from the Poole 2018 Taem riders announced section on SGB. it was there yesterday and I think earlier today. Maybe some at the SGB/BSPA do read poster comments on the BSF after all. Well sometimes that is ;-)

Thanks for the seasoned supporter bit ;-) As for probably too young ?? - Well my first meeting was at Waterden Road, Hackney in 1970 as a 15/16 year old. Cant quite remember which month without turning out my loft and the many Hackney and other programmes from that period. I will let you work out if I am too young to remember, but thanks for the "probably too young to remember" comment as its nice to have someone think you are younger than you are LOL ;-) To answer your last question: I personally think he signed him on both ideas to be honest. Maybe if he was say a 7 assessed GSA then I think Matt would have had to think long and hard if he felt the rider would achieve that average and more importantly how it would affect team building plans bearing in mind the team point limit we assume was unknown when he signed him as an asset. Of course at 4.65 the decision was a no brainer. Honestly I get frustrated that with all these rule changes about one over 8 only, I find it amazing that the BSPA/SCB cant draw up the rules on riders GSA's be it SGP riders or those who last rode here in 2016 or whenever - young foreign riders under 21 who have never ridden here so we have no idea how they will perform - same with riders over 21 with the same situation. You would expect a professional organisation to have these things sorted in advance of an AGM so that promoters/managers/club owners etc all know the full brief on what they may be able to do when they attend the meeting. All we get is - new limit 42.5 points - one over 8 rule and then silence.... Has the 2 Brit rule (or 2 riders who qualify or rode NL) still apply as many say its been abolished ?? No firm rules on what SGP riders who didn't ride here in 2017 will be given (many say its been decided at 9) No GSA's or rider assessments done on the riders I mention earlier above. Clubs should be informed of this long before now as hardly surprising many cannot do team planning when they have no idea what riders covered by the above will be given as GSA's. But then perhaps I expect it to be run like a Professional Organisation having all the angles covered. Much of what I have seen etc is far from that in my opinion.

I put out sensible post and here we go again with another teams supporter having a go at Ford again. Read the post properly. The last comment I make is: "I think all these guys should be given lowish GSA's and let the individual promoters decide if they want to try and sign them and take the inevitable risks associated. We want young talent here not this constant dumbing down of the league with GSA's being set high just to distract promoters from taking that chance" In effect saying give them all a low GSA and let promoters decide if they want to sign and take whatever risk is involved. I don't care who signs them be it Ford or even Chapman..... If ANY premotor has the foresight and is willing to finance any of these guys coming over then I applaud them for bringing the real potential future World talent to these shores. Believe me if Woryna had signed for KL I would be saying well done Buster for taking a long term view and yes I think its worth it. All this crap about unfairness/manipulation of the rules, Ford always allegedly guilty of underhand dealing - pulling a fast one. I am sure if Buster had signed Woryna you would be saying, nice one Buster, you did well in having the foresight to sign what COULD be a future young star on a good low average. But no as its Matt Ford its viewed as manipulation or devious or unfair. Yes I like Poole but I also love Speedway and unlike maybe Football I would love to see any Prem side sign what could potentially be future World Stars as this is the kind of thing I want to see on tracks and not the same old same old every week. If Lynn signed Woryna, Drabik or Smektala my view would be good on them, they have made the effort and taken the chance. Its good to see a promoter take that chance as you never really know how it will work out on our trickier/tighter (and in may cases inferior quality) tracks. So I am not taking a one club view. Good luck to any promoter in bringing these guys over. The BSPA may be dumbing down our league bit by bit but these younger guys maybe offer a way around it for clubs. Also as I additionally stated. IF they are good enough they will be out of any potential reserve berth anyway come end of May/early June.

I think a bit unfair Gav. Cant help thinking that had Woryna signed for say Somerset/Leicester or say R.House then chances are most would be saying nothing. The fact that Matt Ford saw a possible opportunity to sign a young improving Pole on 4.65 says a lot for a promoter be it Ford or anyone else, in having the foresight to take a leap of faith in signing him so early ahead of others who might step in later. I see some of where you are coming from but where does one draw the line when there is always an element of risk involved. He rode here in 2016 as a 19/20 year old Polish Youngster with no known UK form and like all young riders be it UK or Foreign attained that low average as he struggled on UK tracks in the main in his first season. Last year yes he improved in Poland but let's not forget he was one of the Polish under 21 youngsters of which each POL EXL team has to track 2 per team. Also meaning a fair chunk of his rides were also against Polish under 21 riders a bit like we had our reserve races for those 2 riders who had to have qualified for the NL (i.e mainly 2 young Brits in each team). This was also part of the reason he got the av he did in Poland and it wasn't as a senior so can be misleading when looking at his av. There is NO guarantee Woryna will come back for his second season as a 21 year old and take to UK tracks although most of us agree we hope he will be a trump card if he transfers his recent form to the UK. In effect Matt ford has undertaken a risk knowing that he has a decent GSA and would fit nicely into a reserve slot with less risk attached should he struggle on UK tracks. So what would we be saying here. We all now Drabik is potentially a World champ in the making an may wipe the floor with many of our riders. BUT as a just turned 20 year old come March 2018 do we put him on say 8/8.5 as this is arguably maybe his true worth despite the fact he has no real experience on UK tracks and may not even take to them should he ever ride here. Of course I want to see Woryna here on his 2016 GSA 4.65 as it would show what a potential shrewed move that Ford made. if he is that good then he will naturally move out of reserve end May/June anyway. Just as I would like to see the likes of Drabik/Smektala/Jackobsen and no doubt other young riders like Chugunov who at 17 was a sensation in the World Team Champ meeting where he beat the likes of Doyle & Holder. But where do you pitch these guys with little to no experience, and who says that one of them who may not be as good on Polish tracks will turn out better than another rider on UK ones. I.E: Drabik beat Lambert hands down in U21 but Lambert may win hands down on our smaller/trickier tracks. Its an interesting debate and I don't know the answer but lets not punish young talent before it has even had a chance to prove itself on our tracks. I think all these guys should be given lowish GSA's and let the individual promoters decide if they want to try and sign them and take the inevitable risks associated. We want young talent here not this constant dumbing down of the league with GSA's being set high just to distract promoters from taking that chance. Anyway that's my view whether you agree or not.

Speedway is not much different to some other sports who have had success. Take Football - Man U fans loved Ferguson while most other teams fans either hated or disliked the guy. You will always have those that like the guy and some who hate Ford. The important thing is that near enough all Poole fans and Supporters think he is the best Promoter in the modern age of Speedway Promotion. That's all that really matters to those who like the Club. Others can, and on this forum certainly do voice their opinion. His success over the last 10 plus years is unmatched. His team selection other than what happened in the last 2 years has been good with plenty of young and exciting riders having ridden for the club. Even Ferguson didn't win the league every year, but judge Ford on Poole's long term performance and what he has brought to the club. Just have to accept that many not associated to the club will not like him for whatever reason they deem fit, which wont list here as one can only smile and admire his long term record and even today what he is trying to do to keep the club one step head of the others. If he could get say Woryna at 4.65 GSA then good luck to the guy for having the foresight to sign him so early as certainly no other club made the effort to go and sign him. Of course some will scream and shout UNFAIR but that's just typical of people envious of a promoter having made a proactive move. If it backfires and he gets higher so be it as still a decent signing despite the fact he has NO experience other than as a young 20 year old in his first season on UK tracks where like a lot of young guys be it a Brit or a foreigner he was learning the ropes. Who knows how he will ride UK tracks again. Cant help also thinking that maybe had he signed for say a Somerset/Rye House or Leicester, then chances are little to no noise would be made as those clubs would not be viewed as serious title contenders. Anyway the snipers wont stop and all Poole fans can do is let them have their Forum moment if it makes them feel better. Fords record of success at the club is all that matters as well as the supporters who turn up to see the club.

I made a decision. For my family the Sky package is more important than BT. I decided not to pay BT as to be honest don't think its worth the money just for one meeting per week (and even then not every week). That's league meetings by the way. My point being anyway, how many more were there like me who probably cldnt be bothered to pay out even more money just to see Speedway once per week (and not every week). I think there were probably a lot more who didn't than probably did. I am not surprised if BT do decide its not worth it as not enough support. Hopefully they will keep the GP though for those who want to watch the top guys racing. If that also goes then the sport really is in a bit of trouble. Just my opinion.

You would have thought that such a dramatic move should have been discussed and voted on at the BSPA AGM. All these promoters knew well in advance (imo) that the one over 8 rule would be voted on as well as the 42.5 limit. They should also have known that there would be plenty of promoters/riders (maybe) who would be looking to come back on their 2016 av as being the same. Also riders who rode before 2016 maybe being reassessed. So if they all know this then one questions why this has not been sorted yet. Same as what about young overseas riders under 21 who have never ridden also riders over 21 with same criteria. I find it difficult to believe that the likes of Poole and Leicester would have forked out money to sign Woryna/Vaculik/Pieszczek without having a clue which GSA they would be allocated ?? It sure doesn't help the wall of silence on any rules coming out of the BSPA are kept silent. same with what happens on the 2 riders rule who have ridden or qualify for the NL (i.e 2 Brits) that each team had to track. Plenty of comments that this rule may NOT apply any more but yet again a wall of silence from any official sources. Maybe they are still making up the rules for 2018 in which case what point of a 3 day AGM in Tenerife ???

Sadly I tend to agree. I did not subscribe to BT Sport purely out of principal because I use the full SKY package incl movies & sport. I felt it an insult that what allowed SKY to charge premium rate was watered down by the loss of Champions League - MOTO GP and finally Speedway. Out of pure principal I was not prepared to be held to ransom to watch the sport via BT when it was part of my Sky Sports package with Sky which is expensive per month with all the other channels such as movies etc. I wonder how many other SKY Subscribers felt similar and also those who may have ben occasional visitors to Sky Speedway as it was part of their sports package. Lets be honest even for the neutral sports fan there wansnt much compulsive sports viewing on a Monday so why not look in on Speedway as it didn't cost any more. Of course all the rumours flying around could be w rong as we know there wld not be anything anyway until the BSPA had agreed on fixed race nights etc. Maybe something will be negotiated/forthcoming. But as they say there is no smoke without fire so maybe some heavily diluted package in in the offering. No doubt as well the BSPA may say yes to virtually any watered down deal rather than see the sport from a League perspective go into media oblivion forever lost to the Speedway public. Its not only TV. You rarely see any news in National papers these days re Speedway. Not even corner snippets. If you are lucky some of the tabloids will show the results somewhere probably near the greyhound results which is another thing slowly dying on its feet.

I don't think so. Maybe the sensible thing long term is to have one big league. Let's not get into specifics of how/what/why now. If there is no deal then ultimately to survive the sport and the clubs have to live within its/their means. I think there still has to be a situation where those clubs who feel they can afford and sustain within whatever points limit is set, any overseas stars, but where they go top heavy on such riders they will have to facilitate with younger lower av further down. I believe its up to each team who they track if it is one league and the biggest leveller to flooding the Uk with big names will be the points limits. We will always have the haves and have not's but not unlike most sports. Let's not go overboard here. A rider with a high GSA here in Prem is not guaranteed to top that in the one big league. Look at Morris who has a higher GSA at Swindon then he has at Berwick in 2017. If there is no TV money and no sensible pay per view deal can be harnessed to help compensate, then for me the one big league (slide and dice it how you see fit BSPA) is the long term answer. If not then I question how many clubs will be around in 2/3 years other than maybe those who get good support and have the best promoters. I read somewhere that Swindon lost money last year. If that turns out to be correct then it shows the state of the sport if the league winners couldnt make it pay. Having said that their stadium hardly is the most welcoming place to watch and enjoy speedway. Anyway lets see if this gains traction after 2018 season end.