STEVEHOLS54

indeed the averages/stats don't lie. He rode much better for Rye House but his Wolves GSA dragged him below the 4 he achieved at Rye. Anyway still a shame but back now to Poole matters ;-)

Maybe a victim of this new one over 8 rule where teams are going for more strength in depth maybe ?? Plus thre dropping of the 2 Brit rule. Having said that one would have thought at least he would get a place in Champ, but seems not to be. Maybe if he can be patient he can get a place in May perhaps if some are not performing. Or he could just say to hell the sport is no longer worth the effort. I hope not as we need as much of our UK potential talent to stay in the sport. Was he not a Poole asset at one stage or maybe that changed ?? A shame and while you may think he was dire at Wolves he did achieve a higher GSA than Wajtk/Shanes/Ayres/Greaves and he is still only 20.

Maybe scrap that on Leicester as one contributor says that Sargeant may be on an assessed GSA of over1 point less than another contributor has put. If that's the case both could be an option

Will he get in at Leicester ??. According to Forum comments on the Leicester Topic they only have about 7.15 left after their 2 new riders have been assessed. Leicester Speedway twitter says Vaculik at 8.00 and Piesz at 6.50. Andersen can't and depending on how one Leicester riders GSA is assessed lower down the order maybe Holder cant either ?? On other news - Sad to read Ellis Perks wont be riding UK this year (at the moment) as nobody seems to want him. A young British rider trying to find his way in the sport with a 5 point Champ and 3.33 point Prem GSA, one would have thought at least one club would sign him. It seems that clubs are more eager in both leagues to go for untried and foreign talent then promote its own riders. He has made his feelings felt on the matter in one comment on his twitter.

IF that is the case then one would think clubs would be in a position to sign the riders they may have so far been sitting on the fence on due to it not being clarified. I hope it is more than the previous 3 but you would have thought something would have crept out into the public domain by now or on the Polish sites even if it was only a case of along the lines of "It looks like the POL EXL are lifting the 3 league rule to a max of 4 leagues". I don't doubt though what you have read even if the translation is a bit "iffy". As for the rumoured changes on current and former GP riders. Will it change much as far as 2018 Prem start is concerned ??. Near enough all the one over 8's have been nominated except BV who 99% will name Cook and KL who surely will try to get NKI irrespective. It only becomes interesting if riders can come in below 8 either based on old GSA's or if they are reassessed below 8. Anyone surely who is a 9 who becomes an 8 or someone who was a 7 or 7 plus on an old GSA but who is reassessed at 8 wont get in anyway ??. I am thinking for example someone like Piotr Pawlicki ?? who was below 8 at 7.32 on his last 2014 GSA and is no longer a GP rider for this season. Giving him an 8 with who has been announced in Prem teams so far wont get the guy into a UK team ?? If he is below 8 then it becomes another story. If he wanted UK anyway that is.

Will Matt be able to name his full squad so early as you indicate though Skidder ? If the Poles STILL haven't advised any rule change to the max 3 Leagues then surely that still restricts his options if for example he is going for say Sundstrom who was riding 3 Leagues last season incl both Swedish Leagues. Same would apply if it was any of the other names we heard mentioned on here like Milik etc. I assume the likes of Madsen are out of the equation as he hasn't signed for anyone other than Poland and could easily have been named by now had he been in the running as he is not caught up in the 3 league rule having not signed for any Swedish Club. I follow the main Polish sites and so far nothing mentioned about change of the rule or re discussions about possibly changing it. (Although we are still way before season start for 2018).

Thanks ray and I m sure that all Forum fans will join me in wishing him as full and speedy a recovery as possible.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. His gating. If he can iron out that which is a BIG part of any Speedway riders armour, he can be really good. If you look at some of the late developers or some of those who rode at Poole and have moved on they all were good gaters. Doyle was a good gater but always got overtaken. Well he sure sorted that one out huh and developed late. Same can be said for the likes of Madsen & Milik. Both could gate and both have moved on in their careers with that asset. I am with you in wanting him to succeed but he really needs to get some expert help just as the likes of Ward did with Hancock etc in spending some time with the good gating guys to try and learn. Hancock for me is a great gater and he could learn a lot from him. Magic Janowski sure used Hancock as a mentor for learning and see what happened there. I do hope that he appreciates that is a big area of weakness he needs to work on and hopefully with his obvious ability he really will go all the way. We sure need him in the sport as one of our few young UK riders coming through to compliment Tai W.

You make a fair point but please don't forget that Robert started racing on 250 cc in 2009 and switched to the full 500cc in 2011. That is 6 years ago as a 13 year old. In 2012 he started to race under age in Germany on the full 500 cc class before racing for KL Youngster in 2013. Switched to full KL team in 2014 meaning 4 full years riding in both Prem and Champ (equivalents). The point being that Jack has had a lot less experience riding on UK/European tracks and lets not forget his first season in Prem was only this season just gone. I certainly do hope as a Brit that Rob Lambert does step up and makes top grade. But my slight fear is that he started very early and had the benefit of riding under age in Germany, I would have hoped that despite his young age he would be really pushing on now after 4 full years in Prem even without his experience in the second team and Germany prior to that. For someone so young he has had a lot of experience here in UK in Prem/Champ and throughout Europe. He is one of the few youngsters coming out of the sport home bred who we can see potential in. I do hope he doesn't reach just so far but falls short of the top. It is a reservation and an opinion and I sure hope I am proved wrong and he does make it right to the top as he gets to 21/22. I think 2018 is a big year for him to push on and prove to the top teams in Poland he is worth signing for 2019.

We are just highlighting the obvious then. He is potentially a class act and is still learning. Think about it. He had 1.5 seasons with Plymouth and 1 season with Poole/Peterborough. On that basis and obviously helped by Chris's connections with Torun, he gets a chance to show Torun what he can do and does exactly that. On that basis he then gets offered a full time contract. Yet Matt doesn't want him this season due to some youngster petulance last season in a team that Matt was responsible for signing and his fantastic mid term replacements (NOT....) I just hope that the Holders and whoever else Somerset sign if there is a big gun in there, don't come back and bite us on the backside. Hopefully as an asset Jack will prove what he can do and be back in Poole for 2019. But lets not forget he is learning and hopefully progressing as a rider.

Of course its too late now. He should have sat down with both after the seasons end and well before now and had a heart to heart with both on Jacks boyish behaviour and the fact he should not have been so outspoken. Let's all get a reality check here. This is one of potentially the best young riders in the World. He is a Poole asset and has been signed by Torun on a full contract. Not a young riders contract where they are not guaranteed an income. His first season in the Elite league on a GSA of 5.82. After only 1.5 seasons previously in Champ with Plymouth. Also showed what he could do on decent equipment (Hancocks engine), on decent tracks when he rode those last few meetings for Torun. Do you think Lambert would have been so good. I don't think so..... If he is good enough to be signed for the POL EXL with a clear understanding that Chris mentors him then it should have been the same here. Sometimes people have to put the frustrations of last season behind them. I mean both Jack and Matt. Its not about Jack's disrespect for Matt. The guy was a frustrated young man who was not given a chance to settle and have his obvious ups and downs because the team he rode for were so poor for so long and were getting hammered so badly at certain stages when all this came to a head. Move on for Christ's sake. Don't let the guys talent be blunted by a case of "because I am the club owner I have bigger bo**ocks than you have". Sit down together with Jack and Chris (as his mentor) and thrash it out so all can have a harmonious working relationship going forward. Something I fear has been sadly missing in this case. Hence the mess we now have.

A lot of things were said in anger last season when the likes of Rye House were hammering Poole into total submission on their home track. Jack being young was also frustrated at his own performances which didn't help. As well as Matts own outburst in the media about many of the riders would not be there in 2018. BUT some should remember this is a young Aussie in his first season at the club and the Prem. Its obvious he is a talent. For me there should have been more in depth talks between the 2 and with his brother Chris with a view to bringing both back for 2018. Look at Jacks Champ results and GSA. Just shy of 9 and the so called British Wonder kid Lambert only was 0.33 higher and he has ridden UK tracks 2.5 years LONGER than Jack has. Jack has been signed by Torun and showed his potential talent end of season in Torun. Lambert has only ridden POL 2nd Div and was hardly snapped up by any POL EXL teams for 2018. I think long term Holder JR may well be the better rider.

I think Matt is trying to rescue the situation with Holder Sr who for me was the most important part of Matts plan for 2018 with Brady Kurtz. I think his team plans are up the wall with the current stalemate caused by Matt not taking Jack back who as one of the World's improving young riders already signed by Torun would to many have been an obvious resigning. But not for Matt who must have had something said which he has taken to heart.

So it looks like a lack of xmas cheer in the Ford household this year, and looking highly unlikely we will see any team announcements this side of xmas. Matt was highly confident that he would be putting out a very strong team for 2018 the 70th anniversary and was quite open in his comments in the media in that respect. We have gone from naming all kinds of top riders on this forum coming to the squad for 2018 to something which may well fall short of that if one takes his comments about being down on revenue by 20% with the possible loss of the TV deal. I think he felt Chris Holder was a shoe in but seems rider power is kicking in as its painfully obvious this whole saga is about Jack (who by the way I wanted to see back). Chris obviously wants to join him now at Somerset but of course Matt is not actually admitting it. He chooses to window dress the wording of his media releases and extract the max media coverage in both the Speedway Star and its now on Speedway GP. He then mentions with the 20% drop in revenue with the expected loss of TV he could do with selling 1/2 riders which to me is a clear indication that its sell only with Holder at a price of course nobody will pay. Especially after last season with the fall out at KL and his performances in general. Matt also admits selling some riders would help the club at this time. Sounds like all isn't well financially despite him protesting its not about money with Chris. Maybe it isn't but its plain to see Chris doesn't want Poole without Jack. It should have been obvious to Matt long ago that moving Jack on was going to cause problems for 2 brothers who probably live together when in UK - Ride for the same Polish Club so would travel together plus both probably thought they were back in at Poole. I personally think its a mistake letting Jack go irrespective of some of the comments re his immature remarks/comments. He is still a future young star and should be told to iron out his immaturity and just concentrate on riding. With his brother to mentor him I feel its a mistake letting him go. So where do we sit now on these top riders who we are supposed to be signing to give us that title winning look to the side ?? Holder looks like he wants out. Andersen looks like he's been told that as it stands he is not wanted back. Maybe a climb down though if Matt is up sh** creek. Sundstrom has been mentioned various times recently on this forum and if signed wont be a surprise to most visiting the Poole Forum. But even he cant be announced as the POL max 3 league rule hasn't been sorted - STILL...... On top of that is Sundstrom a heat leader ??? His revised GSA with the 8% reduction from his 2013 av (if its 2% per year not ridden) looks attractive but he isn't the rider you would go WOW about. So what about the Milik's/Madsen's etc which were the type of riders we were all looking for below 8 on old GSA's. I hope I am proved wrong and we do see something special but I have a feeling that with all not being hunky dory on the Holder front and on the financial front as admitted by Matt re the potential loss of 20% of his revenue, we may well be relying heavily on the 2 Poles which is dangerous. They should be the bonus signings and not the expected successes. I expect Brady & Josh to be steady but questionable at full heat leader status in the case of Brady especially who is still developing at 21.

Could Clegg be a better long term prospect ?? Morris is 3 years older than Clegg and looking at his stats has 3 years more riding experience. One would think that Morris should be more than 0.73 between them although take on your comments about Morris av being in main body of the team. Personally I thought 3/4 years Morris looked quite good when I saw him on TV but doesn't seem to have pushed on much in his career (so far). Having said that maybe long term this is their level in the sport ??

Skidder was not wrong in the fact that discussions had taken place behind closed doors back in September. The fact that Ford could not conclude the deal does not distract from the fact the initial information was right about talks taking place to have him possibly be signed as an asset for Poole. Speedway was the winner here as I said in an earlier post. The 2 riders have both ended up with double up contracts and who knows that maybe the deal also helped sweeten up Morris doubling up for both teams as well. Certainly something that Matt Ford was not able to put on the table. I think 3 riders have possibly ending up benefiting from the deal plus Lakeside supporters get to see 3 Swindon riders (maybe 4 if Swindon were to sign Clegg which is being aired on the forum but may not turn out to be the case).

You were not far short of the mark Skidder as your initial bloodhound skills did point us in the direction that Matt and Cook had been talking behind closed doors in the Poole office one race night at the time. You were so nearly right on this one ;-) Now one for your insider knowledge talents. Do you think Chris H will sign or not ?? We are heading towards Christmas and no announcement yet (although we know Matt tries to work his headlines outside of the Bournemouth FC news hitting the Echo). The forum has had plenty of rumours about Chris being miffed at not signing Jack and as a result wants to move. Probably not helpful also if Somerset do race on a Wed to clash with Poole race day meaning Chris cant help out little Bro with advice and pits back up on Somerset race nights. Also rumours about maybe he isn't happy at being offered a 7 pointer pay deal instead of what he's been used to as a number one. Do you think we are far away from the next team announcement ??.

Perhaps the rule would have been more acceptable had they agreed to 2 over 8 for 2018. That way teams such as BV/Swind/Wolves could have kept (if they chose to) there 2 x 8 point men, plus the other teams could have chosen from the other riders assessed 8 or more. I tend to agree though to leave every riders GSA's as is from the last season they rode here, and let the teams themselves sort out who they choose and don't choose to sign. It may well be that we would have had some teams stronger than others due to some with financial constraints, but that is sport. Unfortunately being now only an 8 team Prem, I suppose it comes down to non changing of the rules may well have pushed at least one or two towards the Prem exit door.

Interesting article from Matt Ford in the Echo today about losing out on Ellis at the last minute. Ultimately for me even though I like Matt, I have to say Speedway was the winner in this deal, which isn't quite portrayed in the article where Matt said he was sad to lose out on the deal to get him. The final deal saw both Ellis and Zach W go from Lakeside to Swindon as assets and no doubt part of the deal included both being loaned back to Lakeside to meet up with Morris in the Champ. Suppose you can partly blame our wonderful BSPA and this ridiculous rule that meant neither Eddie Kennett or Scott Nicholls could ride in the Champ this season. I read that both had been earmarked for Lakeside and Cook had to do an about turn to find other riders. Fortunately he did well to get the Swindon deal done which benefited both Clubs for the 2018 season. Means both young Brits get double up deals which will benefit them financially as well as Morris getting similar, and the winners are British Speedway and its fans who get to see all 3 riders in both divisions. I am a Poole fan but live only 30/40 mins drive from Lakeside so I see the bigger picture from the sports perspective on this one.

The big question is how much of the old TJH is left. Some noticed his his weight had gone up which also questions his real motivation. His form in both SWE 1st & 2nd Div was not that great or when he rode Poland so it comes down to is he now a journeyman on the way down or can he hold his own in our weaker Prem in 2018. The cost of possibly flying the guy in and out 2 days per week with the SWE League on a Tuesday & UK on MON/WED & some Thur could be prohibitive for a guy who could be either a bit up on his current GSA/maybe stand still as he sure didn't do himself any favours last season, or even down as you just don't know which way he is going, is a big risk for Chapman imo. Especially after last seasons problems what he doesnt need is an expensive liability/passenger with risks attached. That's the big risk for me. If you had the TJH who rode for Poole some years ago would be a no brainer as they guy was one of the most exciting riders to see on track. Its hard to understand that a guy who was also riding in SGP has fallen so far, yet he has only just turned 29 end of Nov. He rode in 18 SGP's but that seems like an age ago.

I don't disagree but the loss of potentially 50 meetings if you take the Prem/Champ less the Swed meetings as he already rode the POL 2nd Div, how is his experience going to improve with so many less meetings ?? Maybe he feels that as the young Poles are improving without all those extra meetings then maybe he considers himself at a similar level and doesn't need all the travelling around UK. Problem is he is not a Drabik /Smektala or Woryna so he isn't at their level currently imo. Suppose he could sign in Denmark to take up some of the slack as riders can use the same bikes over the 2 Countries as they are now connected via road/bridge and you can do SWE Tue and DK Wed. No doubt we will hear more on his reasons in the coming 2 weeks (if a super deal isn't thrown his way to stay in UK).

Makes you wonder what kind of C.Holder we will get in 2018 if he isn't happy with Matt Ford. I assume he is pi**ed because Matt didn't want Jack back(this coming season anyway). Also probably miffed if has been offered a reduced pay deal at a 7 point man rather than as a number 1 in prev years. If Matt really is only interested in a £25k permanent transfer deal then it would seem maybe all not so good in their relationship ?? A lot could be rumour of course and the deal may already be done and Chris is happy with it, but between the lines and with some of the comments coming from Matt in interviews it does cause some concern. Especially if it is revolving around Chris. The stumbling block now mentioned by Matt in 2 interviews of course could revolve around one his foreign prospects he wants to bring in. Suppose we will just have to wait and see, but if Chris does sign I hope we are getting a happy Chris back at his home club and not one who is riding only because he cant get a move away due to the price tag of the transfer fee.

Maybe using the FB comment/post to see if anyone out there prepared to pay him enough money to stay in UK during next 2 weeks. Cant see any other reason to post the comment he did and invite comments. Cant see how this guy feels that his career will step up with 12 matches in POL LGE 2 if they don't make the play offs and 14 in SWE again if they don't make play offs. Maybe another one who thinks he is worth a lot more than British Speedway can offer in salary. Similar with maybe C.Holder who I heard had been offered as a 7 point man a pay deal rather than a 9 point plus man that he used to be when on top of his game. As for Lambert, why not just post he will not be racing in UK rather than tell people he plans to make an announcement in next 2 weeks. I think this is his way of fishing for a good paying UK deal. I could be wrong of course.

Fingers crossed for a full & speedy recovery for Starman. Whatever people may think of his opinions/comments, he is an institution and long term contributor to the Forum plus a Master on the one line replies ;-) Let's all hope he has as full a recovery as possible, so we can see him back on the Forum asap as well as his beloved Poole Pirates next season.

Who ?? Has someone signed him then ?? I assume you mean Linus Sundstrom ??