STEVEHOLS54

Yep - This Poole Forum really needs some fresh news to debate. Carries on like this for the next few weeks and I may consider just not looking in. Even the diehards are struggling. Mind you if I was a KL supporter I would be rushing for the depression tablets. Their side is close to being finalised looking at their forum in the last hour of exchanges. Their team looks less than exciting outside of NKI & Lambert. If the Poles don't lift their 3 league rule then they really could be up brown smelly creek in my opinion. I will consider myself fortunate with the side Poole have named in comparison even though we have 2 to name which hopefully will be a young and improving Shanes plus Sundstrom who in this now weakened league compared to what he rode in before in 2014 will make the team very watchable in 2018. I wont go over the top on how good the Poole team might be in 2018 as I know who will come swinging in with comments . Play offs has to be first target and then its down to how well the team & individual riders are performing come September when its play offs. Nobody knows the answer to that irrespective of how good or bad a team may look early season.

Hope Matt announces the 2 last riders soon. I think the Morris/Kurtz point has been debated near enough to death now. We need something new to talk about

I think further evidence that Morris was the better rider last season in UK. Certainly more consistent but then you would expect that with having ridden 5 seasons more than Kurtz in the Prem (or equiv). Interesting that both had a big jump in av last season which may be a combination of both improving and also because the Prem has been getting progressively weaker in respect of top stars returning. Last season for sure was and this season arguably even more. Morris improvement has been steadier with Kurtz probably more spectacular in GSA after only 2 seasons and Kurtz was only 21 in September. Personally I think it will be at least another 2 seasons before one can make real comparisons between the 2. Kurtz due to getting more experience and also riding against the Worlds top now in UK and also for the first time (in real terms) in both SWE Elite and POL EXL. Morris from the perspective of can he hold his big improvement last season compared to prev seasons (also now riding at number 1)and can he eventually push on in POL/SWE if signed. By POL I mean POL EXL. As far as UK there is no doubt that Morris was the better rider but we need those addl 2/3 seasons before we can really say as far as UK is concerned who is the better rider as that would have allowed Kurtz the catch up in experience in the Prem. Will be interesting to see how they both push on.

I think both you and Gavan have provided interesting and fair comments in this forum discussion on Kurtz v Morris which at least has kept some interest in the Poole 2018 forum in these dark and dreary close season nights. I support Poole but have to agree Morris was the better rider in 2017 in the Prem, especially when you also factor in Morris's bonus points. But I think that although Morris is only 2.5 years older than Kurtz we need to look closer at the stats which tells its own story. Morris came to UK in 2010 as a young wild rider who gained a bit of a reputation being compared to often to Darcy Ward which was unfair. He has ridden Prem (or equiv) for a long time with his first season in the top flight 2011 where he rode 17 times with a GSA of 5.30. Since then his GSA's have been 5.78 - 5.90 - 6.31 - 6.70 - 6.41 - 8.87. So over 7 seasons we have seen the emergence of Morris into a heat leader and being 24 in June his riding has matured. Remember that is 7 seasons not one or two. He has toned down some of his wild behaviour which got him into hot water a few times and pressed on in UK as a top rider, although not quite broken into POL EXL, but still plenty of time. That youthful over exuberance has gone and now you have the young man who is a top UK rider. Brady Kurtz has ridden 2 seasons in the Prem and at 21 has achieved GSA's of 6.36 then last seasons 8.08. Not bad for 2 seasons in the top flight and last season also had an injury that dragged his GSA down a bit as he had to find fitness again after the injury later in the season in a team that also struggled. Who ultimately is the better long term prospect ?? - Based on what the short term shows maybe Kurtz, but after what Doyle achieved I think he reset the bar on what riders can achieve even into their thirties. As a Poole supporter I hate the pressure that is piled on him with the comparisons to a top riding Darcy Ward or Chris Holder (when he was top). As a young guy finding his way he needs to find his level at his own pace and not just because he rode so well last year he will improve on that this year. Morris had 6 seasons in the top flight prior to his 8.87 season so perhaps we need to put things into perspective. Similar with Fricke and Jack Holder. I think we are fortunate to see these young Aussies with obvious class, same as I hope to be saying the same with young Woryna in the coming years. I appreciate that these things keep the forum going in these quiet days but you have to sometimes dig below the surface when comparing say Morris to Kurtz. Hopefully they will both win their share of races and will indeed be interesting how they shape up when riding against each other this coming season.

Much as it would have been good for Brady to have won the championship, and frustrating as it is that he did blow it in 4 finals, ultimately it doesn't mean too much as hopefully he is now qualified for the Speedway GP Qualifiers for the coming season as runner up. I think better to assess Brady's improvement (or lack of) come the end of 2018 after he has ridden the season for Poole/Leszno/Sweden and whatever individual qualifiers he participates in. Only then we can say if his development is still going forward (which hopefully it will be). Similar can be said for Jack Holder who did well to win 2 rounds and if he moves forward in UK & POL in 2018 then I am sure Matt Ford will have him back if possible for 2019. Tungate has done very well since he appeared unbeaten in the rides he took in the Aussie GP, and has been in great form since in individual tournaments and also overall in the Aussie Champ. Can he bring that form back to UK and POL/SWE ?? - Will be interesting to see if he could be another Aussie late developer or if he reverts back to his form of the last few seasons. Cant take anything away from Tungate in the Aussie series and yes, Brady needs to overcome this final blow out that crept in this series. BUT lets all remember he was only 21 in September and plenty of time to build up the mental strength to handle these situations. He is developing well for a rider so young so lets concentrate on the positives as he irons out those minor negatives. I think most know who will probably be the better rider of the two long term ;-) Lets not keep making the comparison to say Darcy Ward, and let the guy develop at a rate comfortable to him without having that great weight hung around his neck.

Wouldn't worry too much. KK has also been quite bearing how bullish he was about visiting UK to talk to a few clubs. Just to keep people interested I think and put some off the scent of his intended club. That w as a while back. Cant see it being BV with Cook/Fricke signed etc. Can only be either RH or KL. We all know KL are heavily banking on NKI if the Poles lift the 3 league rule which does NOT affect KK as he isn't signed outside POL so wont be in SWE. Having said all this I cant see him signing for KL over RH as that would show he is just a mercenary. Maybe RH just dragging it out to keep something for the fans as the season start is still over 2 months away and he would be viewed as their star signing. Maybe RH just awaiting the right time to announce ??

May be a real shortage of 7/7.95 riders out there at present willing to come to UK. No wonder when you see what the likes of Madsen can earn - they don't need UK. Certainly not helped by the POL max 3 league rule still not being sorted. Matt Ford must have closed out a deal with Sundstrom months ago subject to the POLES lifting the rule as he has said in public he had his side sorted in respect of who he wanted to ride for 2018 as soon as last season had finished. I can only assume that's why he didn't resign Andersen. Also maybe because getting Hans out if he is on a slow downward path mid season might not be as easy as dropping Sundstrom if he didn't perform. Only guessing here. Also fyi some stats that may have also entered Matt Fords mind in choosing Sundstrom. Sund was 9th best rider in SWE Elite in 2017 where Ander dropped alarmingly to 40th. And Ander rode nNice 1 where Sud rode POL EXL (ok not the greatest of results but still against better quality riders). Sunds I don't think is committed to DK where Hans is so one would assume not so many poss fixture clashes. Hans is 38 and maybe just wants as many meeting as poss as in twilight of his career (although still a decent rider as his GSA shows). Sund is 27 and may still have improvement in him. He MAY also be a cheaper option than Hans ?? Maybe some of the factors Matt Ford took into account, but again I am just guessing what may have been the reasons.

Assuming it is Sundstrom (if as reported Pawlicki is on 8) then if each rider performs to reasonable form and Woryna improves, I thing Mats Stepz may struggle to get out the reserve berth. If he does will we see the likes of either Chris/Linus/Josh or Woryna drop into reserve. Doesn't bear thinking about that such riders could each qualify for up to 6 or 7 rides with numerous opportunities to race against other reserves ?? That's if Mats was to bang in some decent scores from reserve thus giving him a possibly inflated average come end of May/early June when the first GSA's tend to come out. Of course at this stage all theory (before Gav jumps into the discussion), because ultimately it all has to be proved on the track but doesn't hurt to at least dream a little what may happen if the guys were to perform ;-) Also need if possible injury free.

No wonder his twitter a/c is happy to show him in far flung exotic holidays in the close season ;-) According to stats he scored 145 points which if it is £850 per point = £123,250 to add to the £300k. Factor in as you say all his sponsors (incl what must be a tasty little deal he announced the other day with Mercedes), then no wonder he doesn't need UK. Can you imagine what an injury on one of our tracks would cost him ?? No great surprise then that he doesn't even need Sweden at those income levels. Factor in him also riding in say SEC qualifiers and probably main tournament. SGP qualifiers plus maybe those infrequent appearances in Germany. He sure doesn't need to over race himself. Believe he even lives there full time now. Indeed the sport has moved to another level in POL. No wonder young riders such as Brady Kurtz & Jack Holder want to prove their worth in the POL EXL. The potential rewards are mind boggling if the likes of Madsen can aspire to that level of income. OK you still have to prove you can do it though as Madsen has done in POL. The rest of the leagues it doesn't really matter how good or bad he would be as long as he performs on their stage most weeks. Not only that but 14 league matches only plus a max of 4 play off ties and that's IF they make the play-offs. Tough at the top huh ??

Maybe he can also supply a couple of similar missiles (engines) to help out Matsz Spanz as well. The fact they will be both be team mates in UK & POL and believe both staying with Matt Ford, one would think they will work closely together, if as I think I read that Middlos place may be used to keep their bikes etc ??

Many forget how far Fricke has come in the sport for one of only 21. He has won the Aussie U21 a few times - was World U21 Champ and has also been in teams that won their respective leagues in DK/SWE & POL (Nice1), the season before last. For me just as with Brady Kurtz, people expect big things so early in their Speedway careers, sometimes using Dacy Ward as the example which for me is completely unfair as Darcy was a rare talent we many never see the likes of again. Speedway riders develop at different rates. You had one extreme with young Darcy and at the other extreme was a late developing Jason Doyle. Would anyone say 5/6/7 years ago have thought this guy would ever really be a WC (should have been twice but for injury cruelly robbing him in 2016). It doesn't mean that just because you arrive on the scene and hit the big time so young that you will in those early years be a World beater. Some riders take time to mature, and with Fricke having achieved so much at such a young age, he needs to find consistency now riding regular against the Worlds top riders. That will surely come as he rides more against them in the major leagues i.e POL/SWE/UK. Similar situation with Brady. He is kind or thrown in at the deep end at 21 as number one and personally I wish he had been just short of 8 points and a recognised heat leader like a Pawlicki (himself only 23) had been number one. The new one over 8 rule put paid to that so he is there due to circumstances. I don't expect Brady to put too much on his av this year with the addl pressures of now being regular in POL and his new venture into SWE. This is a year of hopeful improvement but more about consolidating himself against the top riders in Europe. He now has to get used to a situ like POL SUN - Poss UK meeting MON - SWE Tue - Poole,or another UK meeting WED. That in itself brings pressure so for me from a Poole perspective it is up to the other riders in 2018 to pull their weight so it doesn't all fall on his head when he has those odd difficult/bad rides which all young riders have now and then.

Come on Skidder. You knew full well what putting out a comment worded in the way it was would cause on the Forum. Especially when some of us have come to expect some of your advance hints/comments to be sensible/credible. More than happy if its Sundstrom but had there been a reassessment of Pawlicki it could have been so much better. At least we can kick this one into the long grass (for now) You will no doubt however have great joy in reminding all come next mid season of the above post SHOULD a rider get dropped for not performing and a certain Mr Pawlicki gets signed

Of course he did also make it public that he may not even stay in UK in 2018. Doesn't he now live in Germany with his Girlfriend. Maybe he had intentions to live abroad and take no part in KL or UK thus perhaps didn't bother to seek out Sponsorship in UK for 2018 ?? Just an opinion.

Just highlights though state of the sport in this Country, when the biggest Young individual talent we have in UK cannot (at this stage) secure sufficient sponsorship to finance new equip for him for 2018. Its a different World when the likes of Leon Madsen (you remember that 5/6 point rider from years ago) has just announced a tie up with Mercedes Czestochowa. We really are on different planets in the sport. Then you look at the problems at the old Coventry track and the video released today flwg the fire with the gypos having set fire to the place. You think Jeez - just bulldoze the place and build on it. Leave us all with the memories of happier days in the sport. Not the shell and bombsite it is now. You think where is it all heading for UK Speedway ???? - Maybe we are heading for a one league system ultimately and will be a breeding ground for riders making their way in the sport and journeymen.

if it is Skidder winding us all up then he better get on here asap and retract it. He has been close to some inside info ahead of others in the past but on this one I cant tell if he is pulling our leg or it has some substance behind it. Come on Skidder let us know if this is an early April Fools joke ;-)

Unfortunately for us all only the BSPA and Matt Ford will know the answer on a GSA for 2018 if this rumour has any truth in it. Could just be a rumour of course. Mind you Skidder is normally fairly reliable on a lot of info. Assuming he isn't just pulling our leg ;-)

Well Skidder if this is not one of your leg pulls ;-) then. 1) Pawlicki - I think not caught up in 3 Lge rule as believe only signed POL/SWE so could be announced without a delay ?? 2) I thought I read on the BSF several times recently that all foreign riders had now been assessed/reassessed as comments mentioned over 200 foreign riders had been sorted. Must be as the likes of Vaculik as a current GP rider and Piez have been sorted for Leicester. If this is serious inside info then it would be a major coup if he is down around the 7.85 mark.

Look don't get me wrong as I am a Chris Fan (as a rider that is). I was not aware re the twitter as have not seen it but exactly the same was put out on his website yesterday. The point I am making is that he has only put out the official announcement in which even that only has Matts comments with nothing in the way of comment from Chris. Its is normal for riders to put out a personal comment from themselves saying they are pleased or happy to be riding in 2018 for ??? and are looking forward to riding or in Chris's case returning to the club. Is it me or is there nothing in the way of any personal comment from Chris, which is what is making me think he is doing this near enough against his own wishes and only because without Poole he had no other option which perhaps could also have maybe affected his visa?? Someone like Hans Andersen would have made a comment about how happy he would have been to be returning to Poole as no doubt most other senior heat leader figures (or even normal middle/lower riders) would have put out more personal messages other than just forwarding the clubs statement which had no personal input/comment from the rider himself. Its hardly welcoming himself back into the hearts of the Poole supporters although I suppose irrespective of what he thinks, ultimately its what he does on the track that matters. I am sure if he doesn't perform then we know what the ultimate outcome will be either mid or end of the 2018 season. Lets hope that's not the case. Would have been nice to have seen something from the guy personally though and I think many Poole fans would agree.

I see that Chris Holder has just signed up for a new Team Hancock Raj. Some form of new Speedway Team concept according to WP Sport Fackty. From his comments he also seem quite excited at the venture. His comments as copied from the article in the last 10 mins. Quote The Australian does not hide that he is positive about working with his older colleague. - When Greg invited me to this project, I thought it was amazing. I knew right away that I wanted to be involved in this program. It does not often happen to be part of something like that and I'm excited about it. Greg and Rafał have big plans. We will be like a motocross team, where everything is planned and done to the max. I can not wait for the beginning of this cooperation. Last season was not easy for me, but it seems to me that this is a new beginning and a really nice opportunity for a fresh start - said Holder. Unquote Interesting isn't it that he is more than happy to make comments in the POL press about this so called exciting new venture, but not a single word from the man about signing and returning to Poole in 2018. Is it really that obvious that he doesn't want to be there in 2018 ???. I think near enough every major rider who has signed for a UK team has put comments out on social media about how happy they are to be riding for xyz in 2018 or have made comments via other media outlets about how happy they are. Unfortunately Mr Holder has given us nothing to date. Even maybe a watered down "Back at Poole for 2018, and a thumbs up" would be better than total silence on his UK Club for 2018. We know he is using twitter as he is posting old injury photos to his friends while viewing the Aussie Champ., Is it really that painful to put something out to the Poole Fans who ultimately will be paying a fair chunk of his UK income.

Agreed Gav. Its something I also noticed with him last year. Problem we have with Brady is too many still make comparisons with Darcy Ward which of course the sensible amongst us know he is not. But the better he performs the comparisons with many die hard Poole fans is the more he is compared which I think is unfair being that 2017 was only his second in the Prem. But suppose when you have had Holder who WAS a W/C and was so good for so long and also Darcy being the phenomenon he was, there will always be the comparisons and pressure when riding for the same team so closely behind those 2 legends. Also having done so much in respect of his AV in such a short period. I really do hope that others like Woryna do step up to back him up as also maybe Holder and if signed Sundstrom and even Josh G as its unfair for him to be thrust in the deep end so young. But suppose if you have got the talent you ultimately have to live up to it.

Correct Sir - Hence the delay. He has already signed quite early for another ALLSV team for 2018 as well as the SWE Elite and with Gorzow in POL that's his 3 (as it stands). Let's hope the POLES do get it sorted sooner as its dragged on for too long already.

I do hope Chris Holder is pulling our leg with the picture of what looks like 2 busted wrists in A&E on his twitter page this morning...... If this guy has seriously injured himself then there should be some serious questions asked by Matt if its some kind of motorcycling accident when he is not even competition riding. If its true I do hope we have not lost one of out top riders for ??? months and then he has to get back to full fitness. Cant see any other posts from him since he shared it with Crump and another (plus anyone who follows him). Will also be somewhat galling that he has not posted to my knowledge one single comment about how pleased he is to be back at Poole (or any other positive comment about returning), yet if true he is more than happy to share some personal injury misfortune to anyone following him on twitter. Anyway it may not even be him or it may be an old photo, but even so as it stands it doesn't look too clever and surely raises maybe some doubts on his availability for the season start. Also if true I bet Matt Ford will be less than a happy bunny with the Poles also still dragging their feet on the 3 league rule thus slowing up the Sundtrom announcement (as well as poor James Shanes who is awaiting the outcome as its all linked).

Think majority agree with you Gav. Problem Ford faces is at this later stage could he get another 7 plus quality rider if they cant get Sundstrom (as strongly rumoured) if the Poles don't lift the max 3 league rule. If they don't lift the rule then it may also exclude other 7 plus possibilities, or those who can be afforded without megabucks deals for salary/equip/travelling/mechanics etc. IF they don't lift the rule perhaps his thinking is that to compensate the loss of a 7 plus rider he may be partly forced in to 2 stronger lower av riders in the 5 plus area or he would face Shanes at 2.88 (or around that with the young Brit reduction) and maybe a 6 rider thus losing some available points available in team building. Also think of how KL may be in trouble if the POLES don't lift it as I am sure they are banking on getting NKI back and he would also be out if they don't. P.S: For those who don't realise why Sundstrom cant be signed yet is because he rides BOTH leagues in SWE as well as POL and has already signed for 2018. Meaning that as we speak he is on his 3 league max. I mention it as some contributors didn't seem aware assuming he was on just 2 leagues with SWE/POL. Nope its 3 hence the delay while the POLES continue to play the game of "We are the greatest league in the World and we will decide if we want to lift the rule when we want to".

Yes. Something he has to eradicate but he is only 21. On the positives every completed ride unbeaten in both rounds its just the EF/FALL/EXCL that probably have stopped him being top of the leader board. Anyway its all good practice for 2018.

That is probably not going to change in the next 20 years. If anything Speedway in UK will perhaps demise to a one league system where all the main riders will ride be at Champ or just above level. Lets hope that it does keep and even improve its popularity in POL as that is the one country where in the main the sport is flourishing. While their is top money then ultimately it hopefully will attract top talent. I am happy for UK to play its part in rider development for the future even if the main and best riders get their main source of income from POL. Lets be realistic it just wont happen in UK. If young foreign riders want to come here to improve their track skills fine with me as long as we keep plenty available for UK riders. It would just be half decent though for our Polish friends to have made a decision by now considering how we bent over to meet them on fixed race days. Its not exactly rocket science to either say its lifted or its maintained, so why so long ?? I thought we had a special relationship with Poland considering how accommodating we are to the many who work & live here. A small reciprocal move to help assist the sport in UK for those riders who want to come here would be welcome ;-)