STEVEHOLS54

I am sure that any promotion involved in a play off place with one or several or in one case all 7 riders would have blocked any move to a Saturday. Secondly if certain riders had not been paid, who is to say such riders themselves would not have started a process of at least entering into dialogue with other potential club/s. Lets not deem riders as being stupid. Some of the more clued up and potentially well represented legally, would have had an idea RH were possibly in deep brown smelly stuff as riders like Harris and Nicholl's have both faced non payment of wages from overseas clubs before so are pretty clued up as to how things are looking. If I was a rider for sure I would have started tapping in to potential suitor/s on the Q.T to protect my income. It was the end of June when this blew up but no doubt had been possibly building for some time. Still 3 months at least of the season to go. Let's not assume it was a club/s tapping up the riders after the announcement. If one didnt know better one could say ahhh yes its Poole. Have potentially 7 riders (the whole team) who cant ride on a Saturday (thus poss losing points in their quest for a play off) and Matt Ford said around same time as the announcement that he was keeping options open and would not rule out a further change to the team if it didnt perform even if it meant releasing an asset in the short term. But that would just be cynical as none of us know if a club or clubs or even the riders themselves tapped each other up. All we do know is their are financial problems also involving the riders and the owners given the opportunity to resolve them can't and as such their licence is revoked.

i am sure that Nicholl's on good advice from his lawyer would have kept his silence and rightly so if he did take such a course in order to protect both his and the bigger situation. Before some go on the defensive as to putting out rumours which are baseless let's not lose site of the BSPA/SCB announcnement and for me the relevant section. BMR Speedway Ltd, the club owners, and riders made the British Speedway Promoters’ Association aware of debts building and every opportunity was given for these to be reduced and finally settled.However, it has become apparent this is now not possible. Note the ref to RIDERS. That in effect is near enough saying not been paid. This is a Forum and in effect we are free (within reason) to debate/speculate/rumour/exchange views etc. Comments I put forward are partly based on what the statement said. I can fully understand why some (if not all clubs) wont support a race Saturday for the rest of the season view. I am sure the relevant parties i.e SCB/BSPA would have tried to assist where they could as don't forget it took a week for this statement to appear. Speedway is not awash with cash either at club level or within the BSPA. Why throw good money after bad as its obvious to most they were not in a position to survive without major surgery in the form of major financial help and a probable move of race day to the detriment of other teams. If they really are serious about continuing in the future then move into a league which better suits their budget and on a race day which makes them financially viable moving forward. The likes of Lakeside dropped out of the Prem went into the N/L and then into Champ and its worked well so far. Crowds may not be brilliant but hopefully the product is more sustainable with decent promotion/sponsorship without the top overpaid riders. Also on race days which suits them better.

No but even I remember back in the early seventees where BIG money POL didnt rule the speedway roost. Riders like Barry Briggs rode Saturday in UK. These days he would be riding for the big money in POL so sure wouldnt be there on a Saturday.

Jeez - Don't remind me. It was a year where my 2 nearest and loved clubs almost pulled off a unique double. Hackney and Rye House. I got the best of both leagues on a Friday and Sunday. The nearest, my beloved Hawks ever came to winning the top division and I supported them as a 16 year old from 1970. But your point is yes so many clubs - so many matches with not only League but KO Cup and Individual rider championship's/meetings. Have to say was best time for me between 70 and say early eightees.

Perhaps the problems are various fold. One MUST surely be finance and maybe riders have not been paid. For example I know that when Nichols could not get a Champ berth due to the new rules he sought out a decent lawyer who helped fight his case to get the rule changed as it was robbing him of his living (partly). If he had not been paid for some time by BMR then maybe he again got a decent lawyer to go after them. If it affected him then multiply by the other riders. We don't know amounts involved and were there other creditors stacking up unpaid ?? Secondly maybe they did push for part of the agreement requiring Saturday racing which yes may help them but what about other teams fighting for the play offs. if those teams had several riders commited to abroad at weekends, and in the case of say Poole all 7, then can you not understand why they would not be happy to face trips to Rye who would only have probably be missing KK or Somerset missing at least Doyle & Holder Jr and also the other teams who would be relying probably mainly on Champ quality guests and some of them already commited abroad at weekends or for grass/long track. Yes all want a club to survive but not if its going to cost them maybe a possible play off place. Also did i read somewhere that a portion of the away clubs wages are paid for by the home side in Prem. If they are in effect bust can you see clubs who are already bleeding money (i.e all of them) going to be willing to go to RH with in effect no revenue forthcoming ?? No for me the right thing was done. Close it up and if they can rise again maybe in a lower league and they can finance it, plus on a race night that works for them and the others than fair enough.

Perhaps Lemon was reflecting on a BAD day all round for BV. Lost 6 points wiped as a result of losing the wins against RH and maybe thought he would beat Poole as well after the inconsistencies of this season. That is in effect 9 points down the swannie in less than 24 hours. Am pleased a ref manned up to Cook an his constant jump starting. have witnessed it also in the GP where he has tried it on. Think he gets away with it quite a bit probably over here so can't complain if he finally gets pulled for trying it a few times too often. Don't get me wrong as he is a totally commited BV rider and supporter and you can see it hurts him big time when they have lost out in finals and play offs. Nothing wrong with such commitment but ultimately all riders have to follow as much as possible the standing start and not constantly rolling or jump starting. It takes special talent to get away with rolling. Just ask Hans Anderson who has mastered it over the years but within the rules . They should be ok for the play offs but doubt they will finish top thus missing out on semi choice ??. The 9 points missed wont help that cause.

No just airing an off the cuff comment made and to a degree I see his point. BUT something has to be done to save the sport. We can't keep going down this slippery slope. Maybe some of the better and successful run clubs in Champ come up to a revamped/redesigned Prem where it is made attractive for all ?? As said I don't have all the answers but we can't afford to lose the likes of Poole or any clubs for that matter. If a well run club like Poole is maybe considering its position what does that say for the rest of the teams who don't enjoy the financial income form Sponsorship that maybe Poole do. There are enough successful business heads within the BSPA but they have to find common ground on a way forward in a format all can ultimately live with. Its either that or the sport is doomed in its current format. If it also means more flexibility on race nights even if it does mean some of the top riders pass on UK then so be it but for sure something has to be done.

Any snippets or rumours knocking around last night on what might happen with Nichols or Harris ?? Nobody seemed to know up to last night if they would keep their last RH GSA or with their results cancelled, would they get a Champ 1.3 downward conv which certainly makes Nichols more attractive than Harris who would still be on his similar Prem GSA. I mention it as the lower they are the more attractive they become. Both ride Poole well and both could (or already are) be considered for Poole if Matt does decide to replace a rider or redeclare ??. Not an easy one after last night as Josh picked up but as we know Poole have been hellishly inconsistent this season and would not get carried away as we saw after KL how things could swing back again downwards.

I think Matt will decide depending upon what is agreed at the BSPA in view of what is obviously happening in British Speedway currently. I think most if not all agree that the sport in its current format is on a very slippery downward slope. I exchanged a few words with an off guard John Cook at a recent Lakeside meeting in which i said that I thought one big league was the way forward. He commented that his fear was that the big clubs like Poole and Wolves with their finance and large rider asset base would snap up all the available top talent making it virtually impossible for others to compete. We all know Matt is one of if not the top owner/promoters of recent times and it could maybe be a veiled warning to others in the sport. I.E: Speedway gets its house in order and maybe follows his vision for the sport or he and Poole will walk away from it. Now, many may not like his idea of how it should be run, but ultimately he has run a successful Club for the years he has been involved so difficult to argue with that. Consider what a so called Prem would look like without say a Poole and maybe other casualties. Basically it won't be. Speedway for sure needs to take some hard/difficult decisions, but at the same time just as in football, all cannot be equal as life doesn't work that way. There will always be the have's and the have nots. You need the Manchester City's/Utd/Liverpool/Arsenals as much as you need the smaller clubs. If a top club visits a smaller club its always a big draw when the better players come to town. Just like in Speedway POL/SWE don't have team make up points totals in their Prem/first or second divisions. They work on the fill with what you want and just make sure you have 2 Pol juniors or Swe nationals in your team. I would love to see bigger/better supported and well run clubs visit smaller clubs. I don't profess to have the answer on how you sort it, but sort it has to be done, as when the likes of Matt Ford issue warning (veiled or otherwise) that he will consider both his decision and Poole Speedways decision at the end of the season, he does not choose such comments lightly. Ultimately even he must be suffering financially after what has been a nightmare season from the start following the loss of the 70th Anniv meeting but not the expense of the big celebration, followed by many rain offs - track issues - non performing riders - Holder situation etc. Now we hear about RH closing. BSPA cancelling most Champ teams Friday meetings due to problematical rider availability. Good article from Jon Cook on Lakeside website today which I think is fair and open flwg cancellation of the Glasgow meeting. Understand a BSPA Association meeting next week. Let's hope all the promotors/owners turn up as the situation with the sport is serious and needs addressing sooner rather than later in Nov.

Another option is some of the better Champ sides step into a new set up with whats left of the Prem into a new format which allows teams to ride on nights of their choice suited best for the crowds, and if to the detrement of signing certain overseas so called stars then so be it. Either that or one big league but something has to be done to make the sport more financially viable to at least cover costs even if not profit. Thinks for certain have to change or we may not have a sport to discuss this time next year. Well not in its current format.

Bearing in mind its been a week now. Would not surprise me if the GSA discussion and new teams have already been discussed with the SCB and between riders and interested clubs. Matt Ford already made some comments in the Echo in last 24 hours as not discounting other changes maybe if it also involved current assets in the team (would seem to me to be poss aimed at Josh G ??). Would not surprise me one bit if he has already got the ok in respect of both riders GSA's and perhaps an agreement in principal for at least one of them ?? Could be wrong of course but the press release in the Echo quickly followed by the BSPA release indicates this outcome was on the cards for maybe a while despite what has said about efforts were made to resolve it.

I agree BUT.... if both Harris and Scott both now got a Champ av calculation and all Prem scores etc are canned for Rye then it indeed makes it interesting for a few teams out there and especially Poole. Nichols new GSA on a conv would be 6.07 (based on the GSA sheet of 26.6 on the 2018 team declarations which is where SGB now seem to post them),and Harris would be 6.25. Both would be options for Poole if they did drop Josh G and both ride Poole well. My preference would be for Nichols. Harris would fit on basis of a team declaration not as a straight replacement as just too high. I can't see based on this years current GSA wef 1/7 or on the starting GSA that either would get a team spot personally elsewhere. They are both a bit too high to replace others imo. Wonder if any discussions will be going on tonight as Scott is guesting for BV. He also lives South Coast now so Poole arguably more convenient than RH was. All depends on what they will get as new GSA's wef 1st July. We shall see but whatever outcome its a sad day.

By the way the latest ones are now posted on Premiership declarations for 2018. For some reason SGB not putting latest one on the GSA section. There have been 2 posted on 26/6 and 29/6.

Your right. Harris is on 6.86 wef 1/7 and Bellego is on 6.10. They can't even redeclare the team as the total sits on 43.04 above what the 42.50 team limit is. Think only Poole could get him if they drop Josh G or Sundstrom as although Harris higher they could redeclare their team as they are currently 0.75 below the 42.50 limit. Having said that unfair to come accross like a vulture picking on the bones of the recently deceased

Tend to agree. Something which perhaps engages with some or all of the Champ clubs in a new format which is not financially punishing.

So its announced Rye have closed down. On SGB site. This means we lose 4 points from our 2 RH matches but some lose 6. We are certainly bottom but the revised SGB League table not amended yet as the news is just off the press. Wonder how the new table will look. Sad day for all Speedway supporters.

Thanks Phil. Was busy typing on the Forum and just saw this so indeed you got in first Kind of confirms what we all feared and a sad day for the sport.

But it does highlight to a degree that we are an aging fan base as we are not attracting enough younger people into the sport. I ceertainly dont feel like I am 3 months short of 64 and certainly dont look it so I am told LOL. But its nice to have the memories of when the sport was at another level support wise and having witnessed the greats such as Mauger - Briggs - Michanek - Olsen to name but a few and even riders at the end of their careers when I first started to see it such as Ronnie Moore - Jackie Biggs. Those memories cannot be erased as thankfully I can say I did my bit in turning up every week for many years even when my club was not doing so well as it as the racing that was important. Well as a Hackney supporter with Len Silver was at the helm it as never going to be BIG in signings. Remember when we were promised Michanek but he never arrived a couple of weeks running and we ended up with Dag Lovaas. Not quite the same but typical of Len I suppose. Couldnt pick up the mobile in those days or email so it was all down to landline communication.

Would indeed be sad but no great surprise. We have also seen it with Coventry where we know they want to redevelop the site. Speedway will NEVER return there and personally I hope not as the stadium is now in effect a dump. You look at what's going on at Rye and you think, Jeez where will it all end.

Is there any realistic time limit on when one might expect a decision on whether there really is going to be a stadium built on or around the existing site or whether the demands of modern housing sites ultimately take precidence in overtaking situations such as this ?? I am not from the area but if the housing development has proceeded at its amazingly fast pace as most housing developments do when money is involved in changing hands on completion, then if there are resident concerns on noise levels etc (understandable if they really are that close), then surely at some stage something has to give/happen one way or the other. We all know that planning changes/objections/amendments can take forever to go through authorities, but with the new stadium having been agreed so long ago yet the housing has pressed on regardless, then surely there must be some idea if this stadium will become a reality or maybe just more housing?? Believe there is also greyhound racing ?? which if the case is it basically in a similar supportive state to our dwindling Speedway. I.E: For many it won't be missed and I don't mean that sarcastically as I would love to see a new stadium built to hopefully help save the sport in Swindon.

Well I still buy it but admit not every week. In my loft i have neatly packed away lots of SS from the early and mid seventies plus lots of programmes from the same period and eightees. I first came into the sport as a 16 year old in 1970/71. Fell in love with it and been a fan ever since . Keep saying I will open up the 2 large boxes and look back on those programs from Hackney (my home club for years before they closed) - Rye House - West Ham - White City - Wimbledon etc. Lost of happy memories when we had a much better support days way before those days of computers/mobile phones - modern technology etc.

Yes and its for reasons like this that Phil said last week that he has to go and lie down in a darkened room when he see's the current SS circulation figures. Suppose its indicative of our Sport in general in UK

Thanks Phil. Appreciate that you can't release things you don't know but the SS is a publication that many of us read (I am sure you would like more ) and anything that can at least point Speedway fans in general in the direction at least of what might be going on is better than what we have presently i.e No News.

Have got to see Starman's many posts and replies over the 2 years I have been on the Forum, and have noticed a moderation of tone since his major op. Don't want to go into too much as its personal to him but many who follow his posts know how serious it was. From a personal perspective I have found that when it comes to sensible Speedway discussion he has proved very engaging and I have NEVER had any problems or issues with exchange posts even if we don't always agree on certain points relating to the Poole Team or the Club. Let's also be honest this is a Poole Forum so I keep my comments relative to the subject matter. I think this is the thing. We can have a laugh- a joke - sometimes the odd wind up but ultimately we all love the sport and of course if we get some of the trolls or people who go out of their way just to wind up certain parties then it will cause some friction. Some may not understand that Mike had a vert serious and possibly life threatening Brain illness that could have ended his life. However he came through it (with some difficulties) and for me has been more engaging when exchanging views on our team. Never bad words exchanged even if we don't always see eye to eye (i.e Mr Sundstrom being an example - I am still not convinced but Starman has always advocated patience with him and say he is improving - the jury is still out, but we can exchange politely without reverting to back biting). I just feel that we should be a little understanding. Its obvious that Mike still gets difficult moments as he said openly on this forum a bit earlier, but I am sure if it had been me or anyone exchanging sensible discussion, that he would still have posted or replied in the same manner. He has a lot of knowledge/experience of the sport over the years and I for one feel we should embrace such fans on the forum. Mike only gets agitated with those who tend to wind up when its not necessary. In many cases he ignores a lot of it. Anyway I have never met Starman but from what I have learned since his major operation he is a decent guy who I enjoy exchanging views/posts with. P.S: Part of the reason for having not met him is because I live 3.5 hours plus away from Poole in darkest Essex

Meaning you have some news or you have nothing more than the rumours circulating ?? Don't expect you to reveal the headline of the SS article or its full content Phil, but would be good to know if SS does have access to what is going on and can at least give some insight to the fans who so far have been treated like mushrooms in a dark potting shed.