STEVEHOLS54

Excellent post fr0m INCOGNITO and maybe he should email it to the BSPA office (address on SGB site) so that at least the idea is logged internally should they be willing to listen to any outside influences not just their own interests. I don't agree with every point in the post but a lot I do and it provides ideas and food for thought. I think £15 per adult under 65 is well worth a fix of Speedway and we have to remember that we do have quite an advanced aged hard core of support who come under concessions for over 65 anyway who would get a (to be agreed) discount. Maybe reduce the programme price a bit so that people can decide if they want one or not. I don't think we should totally alienate clubs who want to sign the odd class rider as that should be reflected in the team points total. Personally I would go above 35 BUT maybe allow up to 2 N/L riders per team each on 2 points av per rider for say those 21 or under. Again just knocking ideas around. For me and as aired I think on the Rye Forum, we need to get a mix of (and taking Lakeside as an example) Good experience (Like Morris and Lawson) - good young riders (Like Ellis) - av middle order riders (Like Newman and Morley)- young up and coming riders like Zach W and young up and coming N/L riders like Bowtell who is improving as a result of more meetings over Champ and N/L. Do NOT allow any club to sign ANY rider until the BSPA agree on a league format - team points limit - guidelines for what young N/L rider will get as an av and how many per team - and importantly on race nights agreed by ALL Clubs that suits them and not the rest of Europe. If that means many of these so called top guys and POLES/Swedes/Danes etc don't want to come back, and even some Aussies if they prefer not to, then so be it. I think you will find that at least some would still prefer to ride here if not all but that is for the teams/promotions of each side to agree based on the BSPA guidelines on team points limits and what each team can afford. Remember too strong at the top means 2 N/L riders at the bottom. We all know how weak reserves can bite you on the backside even if some form of grading is introduced to partly protect some of their rides (which I would also introduce). I think we have to get away from each team being equal. In these days of modern sports. There will always be some teams stronger than others and for example take the team local to me (25 mins drive) at Lakeside. If I had the chance to say see Poole ride there with the odd decent rider like say Woryna or Kurtz or even Holder (Jack or Chris) then I would welcome it as also a chance to partly level out the Lakeside home track advantage. By the way I say the odd decent rider not all 4 of them in the same team necessarily Again we can debate it forever but plenty of sensible ideas already and a good and well thought out post to kick off the discussion.

Sorry what I meant was if the clubs could be allowed to race on the nights of their choosing. I.E: If Poole wanted to keep Wed they can - Swindon if they prefer on a Thur and so on. that way Clubs can pick nights which best suit their circumstances. Irrespective of whether we end up with a combined one League of Prem/Champ with N/L riders allowed to double up or if its still as is next season we need to give Promotors the chance to race on nights which give them the best chance to attract the best crowds. No solution is an easy solution but something major surely has to give if the sport is to survive in UK. Having what I call preferred race nights (even if it means losing some of these so called top stars) and maybe one big league with sensible team building limits and letting teams having the option to have 2 N/L riders per team at say 2 points each is another idea. Matt Ford over the years has always been fairly successful in putting out decent teams (even this years SHOULD have been on paper). I am sure that with his shrewd business head and with local sponsorship he could plan a decent and competitive team to hopefully compete with the best within the points limit at a level that can work for all financially. Just knocking ideas around.

Ok will take that as seriously as the Piotr Pawlicki sightings in Poole earlier this season

He may be an Aussie but fair to say we can count his as a kind of permanent resident of UK during at least the Summer as with most of the Aussies. Can't say that about the Swedes/Poles and some Danes (not all as know the likes of NKI & Klindt live here for family reasons). Take the likes of Sundstrom at Poole - POL Sun - Swe Prem Tue -- Poole Wed or Mon - Swe lower div Thur - Plus he lives in SWE - How much is that travelling costing and we wonder why his form is more down then up for Poole.

One thought was that if we went to go open race night would any of the Champ teams try to come up to Prem. My doubts there are that unless there is some strict regulation put in regarding overseas riders, then I could see the likes of Poole wanting to keep their Wed slot thus seemingly still being attractive to those riding in POL/SWE at top level against those who want to ride on a FRI/SAT/SUN maybe not being able to attract those riders should they wish to do so. Yes they may get bigger crowds but for sure many of those overseas committed raiders wont want to come over. For me its a thankless task trying to put right the wrongs but something surely has to give, because its painfully obvious to those not running the sport there are big financial issues. The guys running it know full well those issues but are kind of powerless to be open about how much money they may/could be losing every week. Rye are probably just the tip of the iceberg.

You only need to look at the current Lakeside team to prove what can be done. They have a decent couple of H/L in Morris and Lawson - good middle order riders such as young Ellis and not so young but not old Newman - Good lower order in young Zach - Good N/L rider with experience in Morley and and a young improving N/L rider who didnt come into the sport so young in Bowtell who is improving with racing. Its the kind of thing I have been advocating taking combining both leagues into one, and then combining the riders from Prem/Champ and N/L. This way we get to see the best of all 3 Worlds. Can't believe that those with a willing to do it can't come up with something to make it work, otherwise i fear for our Sport at top level. Lakeside from a media perspective have also shown how it can be done as get daily twitter reports as well as race clips etc daily to keep all in the loop. They also do plenty for young fans which is also well recorded and shown.

Have to say Skidder that despite all the trials and tribulations we have faced at Poole this season it is so refreshing to see that loyal supporters like you - Steve Shovlar - Starman and others attend week in week out irrespective of what has happened. A big thumbs up to you guys. People like Steve travel up and down the Country knowing in most instances this season we may not get a point. That is what you call loyalty. It's been a frustrating season for all and far from convinced we will improve that much as too many inconsitencies in the team week in and out. Brady brilliant one week - can be poor the next but just use him to highlight the problem throughout. For me he has an excuse as at 21 he is still finding his way but is also expected in only his 3rd season in Prem to be our number one. When will people get a reality check and realise he is not not Darcy Ward who was a one off of whom we will never see the likes of again at Poole. BUT Brady will get there. With what many expect has happened at Rye House, I have to applaud guys like you who not only support the team/club but also get involved in part in sponsoring in some form. It's guys like you who are the real life blood of our sport and while I will not always agree with all the comments you guys put out of the forum, I feel it would be a sadder place without your comments/posts/input. Poole are probably better off than most despite the lack of money for Kevlars (probably more due to the big meeting financial disaster for the 70th Anniv at start of the season and the Sky money having finally ended. I would hope that Poole can continue whatever direction the sport takes in future. I would like to think that loyal sponsors would continue to support the team in whatever form even if somewhat reduced. I know we are not there but the warning signs are out there for all. I think Speedway has much bigger problems than the team issues we have this year. I get very frustrated like all Poole fans but suppose we have to put it into perspective when we look around at whats going on at RH and with the likes of Workington having come out this season and admitted there were financial issues in paying riders at one stage. I said that 3 matches would now define our season. We lost the first 2 with BV at home to come. Lose that and think our game is up for this season. IF RH are out then I fear botton place could become a reality. For me I would be happy for us to salvage some pride by at least winning as many as possible of our home meetings for this season and as for next season ?? Well let's not go there as the sport in its current format may need a massive overhaul and for some downgrading to help it survive for those who still love it. I still believe a combination of one big league - some top or top order riders - middle order/young middle order and also using the top N/L riders (maybe 2 per team ??) in a format is the way forward. We shall see as crazy as it sounds we are still only at the end on June.

On your last comment. Indeed. You have riders like Sundstrom at Poole doing UK - both Swe leagues plus POL or Hans Andersen doing UK/POL/SWE/DK. There are others and how can you be so focused when you are riding in 4 countries per week. I personally think the likes of Brady Kurtz have suffered this season from taking on 3 per week for the first time this season. Just all the constant flying and travelling between airports and tracks is enough to take it out of most let alone do your best when racing all over Europe. We rightly expect our teams riders to do their best when they turn out for us but how can they with such a workload and constant commuting. Just getting to and form airports - checking in - delays - Customs borders - onward movement to and from airport to tracks etc. It's all addl mental pressure. Two Countries is probably difficult enough but 3/4 ???.

Probably even more worrying for Wolves then. I thought Adams was not so happy at the lack of people turning up last year even with Lindgren in the side. If its dropped further its yet again further evidence of how bad things are. Similar with turn outs at Poole but much of that may be down to poor team performance and the constant rain offs & postponements for track issues. When the likes of Matt Ford are feeling the pinch big time even with all their sponsors and cant even afford team kevlars then you know the sport is in trouble.

Ah yes but Swindon have a new stadium coming dont they. Its due to open in 2017 or is it 2018 now or maybe 2025 or more likely probably never as the Housing development takes over and eats up more and more space. There was a lot of hype over this new Swindon Stadium or rebuilding it on part of the existing site but like much in respect of the sport going forward in UK it hasn't happened (so far). We have seen Coventry go (and no way they will be back at Brandon). Rye House (we are all left currently guessing). Not counting others who have slightly deeper pockets or good sponsorship that are keeping their heads above water but only just FOR NOW.....

It may be that BMR and the BSPA are working on a joint statement. If there is bad news on the way then there are ramifications not only in respect of matches so far this season and points earned/lost but also for Speedway in general in UK. Any terminal news would go down badly in UK and overseas plus there is the BT TV deal even if worth bugger all in real finance terms, as well as situ with current RH riders so plenty to sort before they can announce if it is bad news. That's what makes one suspicious as the silence is deafening nearly 1 day after the announcement, and if was something operationally wrong such as track - airfence - stadium issues etc then they could have put all the rumours to bed by now with a simple statement which many could have understood. I know this is our Poole form but this news seems to be spilling into many aspects of the forum which perhaps understandable with all of us being Speedway supporters who want all clubs to survive. Let's hope something is put out soon to clarify.

I am similar to you Fribo. A fan since 1970/71 and have seen several teams/tracks I supported go to the wall over the years. Hackney which at the time was my local track for some years - West Ham - Wimbledon - White City (Where 700/1000 people would get completely lost in such a big stadium - a strange atmosphere that was). For a while now I have been advocating having one big league (Maybe with some regionalisation and then play offs between a top ??? - or even a home/away between each team and the play offs same as Prem/Champ) does now. I think we could use the NL more as feel there may be plenty of riders willing to double up if their could be some form of race grading so these N/L guys come up against riders of similar calibre but also get a little exposure to riding against more expereinced or better class riders so they can learn without getting hammered in every race. One only has to look at the poor stadiums and facilities of many teams now to see that the sport in Prem for example (except for the NSS at BV) is in potentially terminal decline as it stands. As for some of these top riders ??. Many don't really need UK if they have POL & SWE. When you think about it. Many probably have deals and sponsorship in UK which covers their equip and travelling costs and what they earn from the club itself probably contributes to their other expenses travelling around Europe. For some resident UK like NKI/C.Holder then yes they have a desire to race here as also gives them also a chance to go home during the week. But for many non residents I can't help thinking what they earn just helps them to pay other expenses and better to have something that gives you addl earning than not at all.

Its is now 3.15 p.m and nothing has come out of the BSPA or BMR Promotion about why/what is going on to supplement the "Unforseen circumstances". One would have thought that if it was a track condition issue or airfence or some issue with the stadium, then it would have been easy to come out with something to at least allay the fans and speedway supporters in general's fears of what may be going on at RH. The ongoing silence just heightens fears of what many think may be happening at Rye. Maybe something will break shortly, but if it is what many are starting to fear then perhaps the BSPA are working with BMR in the preperation of some form of formal statement to be circulated for which one can understand the lack of news appearing. Anything that revolves around some of the rumours circulating will not only have a profound affect on what happens this season regarding results and matches so far but on British Speedway in general. Again a lot is just speculation and we all hope that the position is not a terminal one, but the longer this goes on the more it increases the fears that the worse may be upon us. Fingers crossed it isn't.

Well if there is integrity within the BSPA, let's hope we get something one way or another as its unfair on the dwindling faithful followers. I can't believe they won't be in the know as to what is going on somehow. Worrying though that such a notice so late in the day without any back up info or reason and the word cancelled being used, is obviously going to cause concern and rumour. But let's not get too ahead of ourselves as tomorrow will soon come (and go).

Let's hope Wednesday brings some clarity if for nothing else to put to bed what many of us are thinking at the moment. The word postponed rather than cancelled would have been so much better if it has something to do with riders or the track.

At least give a reason to stop the obvious rumours that will spread before we get something more concrete. It's obvious that such a worded notice and at such short when many know the speedway finances are dire would send things like the forum into overdrive.

I do hope you are right. P.S: Those interested in our sport may want to look at the last couple of pages over on the Rye House Forum. Interesting but maybe worrying ??

I made a cryptic comment on maybe Poole signing somebody the other day in relation to wondering if a track may be going out of biz possibly. With the falling crowds and what looked like woeful support for RH on one or two recent videos of races from recent matches maybe there could be something in it. I sincerely hope I am wrong on that score as none of us want to see any club go out of biz. Perhaps something more revealing will be released shortly as they are my closest Prem track even if not my supported team. Nobody likes releases that leave you hanging and maybe it is something to do with rider availability or ??

Skidder - If I had attempted to drive the 3.5 hours from Chelmsford for every home match since season start, I would probably have blown my brains out with the late cancellations/rain offs/track issues and poor Poole rider performances. I know its got a bit better recently but can't help vent some frustration about the fact we get into some decent positions and since 2016 (3 seasons) we keep blowing it. I remember vividly the 2016 season when we let a lead slip at Lakeside (Painful enough as I was there.....). That was with Holder in the side. Of course I want to see the side do well and like many who like Poole it's so damned frustrating. But my last post at least highlights for some not fully aquainted with this seasons only av where the problems are even though I am sure it is painfully obvious to most we have had problems. It also shows that other than Woryna (partly with the help of the reserve berth) none of the others are performing even to their season start GSA's. In effect not one of the other six. As for Spaniak I kind of party exclude him re his starting GSA as it SHOULD have been a crazy false low GSA for one of his reported talent. Even the Poole haters/dislikers were having a pop about the fact we had signed a ringer. Well that one had been put to bed big time. I know its only end of June but you have to be a supreme optimist to really believe this side is play off material. I would however love to be proved wrong.

This just highlights the level of under performance from our riders in 2018. This after last nights match and the actual GSA's for this season only based on 2018 League meetings. Kurtz 7.05 Woryna 6.25 Sundstrom 6.07 Worrall 6.00 Josh Graz 5.68 Klindt 5.00 (from his 2 matches) Spaniak 4.80 Observations: Kurtz a full point below his starting GSA and not performing as a number one heat leader. Remember last night was 13 from 6 not 5 rides. But many said he was not a number one at this stage of his career. Matt thought otherwise and didnt factor in his new regime of 3 Countries per week of racing. In his defence his hands were partly tied due to the one over 8 rule and he was only just over. Woryna has shot up mainly due to his reserve rides this month. If I am right does he not go back to the main team from 1stJuly as 23rd is cut off date for new GSA's meaning Klindt goes into reserve ??. Don't expect any big upgrade although riding better than season start. Worrall is what he is a 6 pointer but even then his current GSA is below what he was retained on. Josh G - Well stats dont lie and he we have a 7.35 starting GSA point man riding at 5.68 this season. Enough said as have well aired my opinion as to maybe why he is. Sundstrom - I have said enough on previous posts about this guy and his scores overall prove it. Over a point below his starting GSA and its like Lahti revisited. Klindt is already below his starting GSA of 5.78 after 2 matches and for me that is what he is. Will probably increase that after he goes back to reserve but ultimately he is what many have said a "Gating Tart" and will swing probably between 6 or 5 depending on whether he is in reserve or not. Him going to reserve and Woryna coming out is to Poole's loss as Woryna the better rider with more potential and Woryna won't get 6/7 rides which Woryna benefits from as a result of the usual various riders inconsistences & poor performances. Spaniak - What a waste of expense that has been. A man signed on a false GSA based on all known overseas form in 2017 yet has bombed big time in both UK and more importantly for him in POL. It was his poor form yet again that cost Rybnik a win at the weekend. Scoring 1 point from 3 rides and he shares the mantle of a disastrous fall from grace with Lebedev's who was last seasons SEC Champion. Both are failing miserably for the relegated Rybnik side and both were new signings for 2018. If Matt had hindsight he would never have wasted the money on the guy. But it just shows one good season for a guy of 30 plus doesn't mean you are the next Jason Doyle. Maybe Matt should have looked more closely at his previou 3/4 seasons which were nowhere near as good in POL. Anyway despite all my comments still plenty to play for this season is what we are constantly being told. Let's hope so.

So. I suppose we can cut through the hype of the last 24 hours or so. Vaculik not coming back to UK so that dumbs down any talk of Bjerre coming to Poole. Cant blame him and he will probably sign in Swe for 2019 after an injury in UK that could have cost him his season - GP place and possibly his career. Madsen signs for Vetlanda which once again is probably further evidence that Uk in any form of a Speedway force is a busted flush. Running out of any decent options and that's even IF Matt Ford has any intentions anyway in shelling out more money in what is increasingly looking like a lost cause in respect of 2018. Last night yet again another case of points lost from a winning position. Has happened so often in the past 3 seasons. Yet again it was rider inconsistencies that cost the team. Sundstrom yet again proved he is too much of a more out then in performer. Come on guys, 2 points from 4 rides for a guy who is supposed to be a heat leader. Yet again let the side down when needed. I can pick holes in others as the scores don't lie but what's the point. Its the same old same old for this season. From what I hear yet again we went from a winning position to a fortunate 1 point reading various media reports/posts. Once again it is reported as a good point. Got to keep up the positive hype huh ?? Perhaps Ford does have a last trick or two up his sleeve. After all we see comments like Skidder's about moves afoot. Believe it when I see it I think. Must say that with NKI having recaptured his form I see it as KL/Leic & Som all possibly fighting for that 4th play off qualifying place with Pool and RH fighting over the wooden spoon. Hopefully RH will continue to be weak away (other than at Poole) and will finish below us. The ignominy of finishing bottom having gone into the season as many peoples favourite's would be too much for many to bare. Anyway I said in a previous post that 3 matches may define our season. The away BV match - lost. I anticipate we may go out of KO Cup Wed (now that KL can use Doyle and Holder Jr for the crap Dane who would have struggled to have scored a point) and then we face BV again next week. Whatever the outcome I am still not convinced this team can make the play offs. I certainly can't see an away 3 pointer anywhere with so many inconsistent riders. I do hope I am wrong but will take some decent new faces to change my opinion.

Your last sentence looks a bit cryptic. May revolve around changes elsewhere ?? Hopefully not a team folding before the season ends thus freeing up riders ??? Nothing would surprise me with the doom and gloom surrounding the dwindling support around many of the clubs. Some surely cannot keep bleeding finance as some are currently. Maybe not changes afoot then as you eluded to in your orginal post ?? Note also the word used changes. i.e more than one ??

Easier to be patient with the odd rider or two when like BV you are sitting close to the top and knowing you will probably comfortably make the play offs. BV have been in that situation for a good few years now even if they have just lost out in the semi's/finals. BV have had riders lose a bit of form and then find it again but overall the team has performed well and has won more than it has lost thus allowing all to be patient in letting riders either find their feet or find some lost form. When you have so many decent riders in a team like Poole had at the start of this season and of course there was excitement an a level perhaps of expectation. Then for various reasons the team finds itself bottom of the Prem with so many riders not performing it kind of beggars belief to be honest. Yes I know that some will say that this isnt POL and their form means nothing here but lets get a reality check. POL is the World's top league/s. Based on all logical form you would have expected Spaniak and Worna to have scored way above what their GSA's were and I reckon in the case of Woryna especially most if not all clubs would have bitten your hand off if you had offered him as a freebie without all the expense involved. Kurtz was a man going forward although in his defense I fully expected ups and downs as he finds his way as a 21 year old now also undertaking the rigours of POL/SWE/UK. The last week or two he has been bang out of form. Sundstrom for me was a risk as his POL form wasnt good last season although his SWE form was ok. BUT he had not ridden UK for years and if he was that good then why didnt anyone go for him in the interim. This season he has been poor in POL and to a degree in SWE. Recently lost his place in POL to a returning Vaculik and wont find it easy to get back in imo. Now finding some form for Poole but with so many riding so bad its difficult to carry riders when the pressure is on and you sit bottom. Josh G has been poor pure and simple and the stats dont lie. Yes again one of many not performing so pressure is building the more it drags on. Worrall is what he is - Can be good one minute - av the next. Not as good as his twin and maybe a 6/6.5 pointer is his level in Prem. For me Klindt will be ok at reserve but he will always be iffy in the main body of the team. Anyway if Poole ever get back to the giddy heights of a regular top 4 and looking good for play offs then I think most Poole fans will happily be patient in letting the odd rider find his way or rediscover some lost form. In the meantime you can't blame them for not being happy at the current situation. On paper this team did look good. I doubt if anyone expected them to be so bad with so many under performing.

There you go Skidder. You are throwing us some scraps again to tease us . I always take on board comments you release as you are normally close to hearing whats going on locally One thing I didnt factor in to an earlier post about where we might sit after 5th July is the fact that as it stands on the rolling GSA Av, come the next GSA's we could see Klindt and Woryna switch with Klindt going into reserve. Certainly makes us weaker than having Woryna in there. According to Poole site the stats show as of today with the rolling av Woryna is on 6.15 and Klindt on 5.73. We should not be surprised as at the very start of the season I was so hoping that Woryna would be our first reserve where he would have had it easier while trying to get his set up right and get used to our UK tracks again. Unfortunately Matt thought better by going for a so called strength in depth team with the mighty Spaniak coming in. For sure irrespective of what the GSA's showed on Spaniak from many seasons ago, Matt seriously thought that based on his POL Nice League form of 2017 where he was top of the rider league rankings and his reasonably decent SEC form, he would probably be on at least 6.5 to 7 per meeting in UK after a few matches to bed in. That's my opinion on it. He was never signed to be a 4.5 to 5 point guy as IMO Matt would never have undertaken the expense. There are a whole host of reasons for the problems this season in the team which could fill pages. Starting with the Holder issue even before we started. The bottom line is the riders on the track for one reason or another have not performed. I honestly don't believe Holder would have made too much difference anyway as he is back scoring not much different to last season. His best days are behind him and if he is not careful he will be out on his ar** in Torun as well as they continue to under perform as a team with him being one of the culprits. We keep saying plenty to still play for but to me it will take a Herculean effort from whatever team to get anywhere near the top 4. It seems whoever we put in the team - you get one or two perform and other key members not. Josh is not a bad rider overnight but you have to admit the timing with him culling the Champ for constant commuting back and forth to POL for both training and not even guaranteed matches is'nt without coincidence. Have never thought he would go to the top even though Matt said some seasons ago he saw him as a possible GP rider. Well you know Matt puts possible spin on as much as he can when it comes to the press/Echo. However we was always for me a steady 6.5 to 7.5 rider. Now he is nearer 5.5 he has been going that badly this season. Notice you say CHANGES afoot. Indicates maybe more than one. Wouldnt surprise me to see Wright as one of them being an asset wont cost him anything. I remain to be convinced. Maybe the odd rumour about MJ Jepsen has gathered some pace as he seems to have rediscovered the form he promised some years ago. Doing well in POL & SWE but who knows. I await with eager interest

I see that Poole's next 3 meetings are away to BV in Prem - home to Somerset in KO Cup flwd by home to BV in Prem. I expect us to go out of the KO Cup over the 2 legs - Doubt we will get anything at BV with Garrity having proved a decent signing over last week or so and Poole could well bomb out in the home fixture. Come 2 weeks time Poole could be out of the cup and possibly be bottom or 2nd bottom of the league with no real hope of making the play offs. Not scaremongering just a reality check on what is Poole's nightmare 2018 season. Can't believe all the positive spin being put out by the club in the media etc as if last nights performance was good. One report plus Steve Shovlar made it clear that Somerset were on 2 5-1's when poor Jake Allen was unlucky to get a puncture in one and hit a large rut in another which forced him out. Both times he was ahead of our so called Star riders. Bottom line is we lost by 6 which should have been more. Thank God Woryna has finally started showing the potential his POL Form should be showing. Too many others are letting the side down. Kurtz seems to be struggling to adapt to racing in 3 Countries and his form is going backwards. Graz - Seems he is suffering with 2 Countries but amazing how far back he has gone this season. In 2018 he has gone from a 7 plus to a 5 plus after last nights poor effort. Too many in and out performances and for me can see it continuing that way for rest of this season. Have seen nothing to suggest this team will get anywhere near play offs and even Ford at some stage will realise his attempts at positive spin in the media won't pay off. How long before he fires last years comment that many of this current team wont be in next years line up. At least he wont have any conflicts with Kurtz on getting an 8 point plus man for next season. Having said that IF anyone wants to come and IF he can afford him which must be big doubts on both points. Kurtz could be on a bargain av for next season at this rate. The again maybe not unless he gets his backside into gear. Assuming there is a next year as none of us know where British Speedway is going in the Prem in its current format with falling crowds and little money coming from outside.