STEVEHOLS54

Ok - A question for both RH & Lakeside fans. What chances do you think of the new RH dropping into the N/L next season and if they will go to a Saturday night race night. If there is a revamp of the league set up next year and IF say it becomes a top League of Prem plus top Champ clubs with a 2nd League of say second half on Champ and N/L clubs then surely Rye will suffer as almost certainly would lose the 3 Swindon assets plus Lawson ?? Of course IF the league structure stays as is they could maybe get away with it unless the likes of Morris/Lawson ride in POL on a Sunday which may make it difficult. Also if Ellis has overseas commitments somewhere ?? I say If League structure stays as is because many (incl me) feel they need to change something as Speedway as it is currently is on a downward spiral in the top flight and even a lot of Champ clubs are/have been struggling. There has also been a lot of talk and rumours about changes may well be coming to the league set up for 2019. For me, I am very sad to see Lakeside go. Only 20/30 mins drive from my home and have attended most seasons in part over all the years they have been there. Having seen so many tracks around the South go over the last 48 years incl my beloved Hackney Hawks it's a sad sign of the times of the sport in the UK.

Does anyone know if the riders play off scores over the 2/4 matches count in the final calculations for final GSA calculations for the start of next season ??? I always thought for some reason they only took the regular season results and not the play off scores but maybe someone can clarify for me. If it was regular season only then one can maybe understand (if frustratingly for many supporters) why riders could be dragging their av down over the last couple of meetings IF either their seasons are done or they are maybe under instruction with a view to Team Management plans for 2019 where most if not all the promoters probably know already what the likely make up of the League/s will be. Maybe even if their is a revamp of league structure and perhaps what the proposed team points limits will be, and if it is going to be a big league or one top league of Prem and top half champ teams and a second league of bottom half Champ and N/L teams. Also that deadly conversion factor for Prem riders if they do go down the 1.6 conversion factor. Suddenly would make say a Brady Kurtz 8 point plus look a lot different to say a current 6.8 on conversion if its x 1.6 for next seasons possible new set up ??? Same could be argued for the likes of Woryna and Jakobsen who also look on attractive rolling GSA's for next season based on what the Poole website riders stats current rolling GSA's show after that KL away match.

i think next season is going to be an interesting one regarding RH. IF we go to say one big league or say 2 Leagues with one being top league and top Champ Clubs and second League being bottom Champ and N/L Clubs where will this put the new Rye House Hammers??? We know 3 riders also serve Swindon and are in effect their assets. Lawson also rides Somerset so where would that put Rye ?? Could it be that next season and to protect their preferred Saturday night racing (from a crowd perspective) maybe they could lose all 4 of those riders by or thus dropping into the weaker of what may be 2 Leagues with more of a NL make up of the team and some of the lower Champ riders??? Its an interesting thought but if we do go to the one league or as I mentioned a 2 league set up like above then can't see how Rye can keep in a |top league IF..... Swindon are continuing.

SOME fans are impatient. Many expected him to push on and be a proven number one for 2018 despite the fact he is not proven. Despite turning only 21 last September he was again being compared in some quarters to the next DW/CH which I think is grossly unfair. His form dipped after he came back from injury but unfortunately for us he didnt quite drag it below that magic 8 point mark. I think this season with all the riding and overseas travel this has been a big learning curve for him having to ride in both the Elite leagues in both POL & SWE plus UK. I think it is doing Poole a big favour seeing his av drop and together with both Woryna and Jakobsen also being on lower av than their true ability shows that they could have a real decent team next season. Especially if they also get back maybe both Holders who a re also well below 8. Ultimatley Kurtz does have to step up to the plate but come on. The guy is 21 and will improve as he gets used to the busy Country hopping routine. Let's see what he is like come the end of NEXT season to see if he is going forward (or not).

Agree Steve but at the moment you just don't know which Poole team will turn up. Cannot remember so much inconsistency in so many top class riders incl Jakobsen. My take on it is that with last night not being important they are keeping their GSA's low with a view to next season being at Poole. Def the case with Kurtz/Wory/Jak. I think if they keep their current GSA's (as per Poole website rider stats after last night) they will be good for 2019 plus gives Matt plenty of upside in team building. Maybe also with one or even both Holders back ?? Strength in depth and not one anywhere near 8 points GSA. Could also be important if there are changes planned for the League structure and if they are going to implement say a rule to incorporate at least 1 if not 2 UK N/L youngsters per team. After Jon Cook leaked a comment about the BSPA's exciting plans for 2019. We shall see. The point being that Matt Ford probably already knows what moves are being discussed in respect of 2019 already and may be planning accordingly.

Let's give him and other youngsters some credit. They are not prima donna footballers flying out on private or team jets where yo are wizzed thru customs by a professional back up team. These guys normally have to make own arrangements via budjet airlines from airports which may be many miles away from where they a re staying. All the pain in the backside check in - Customs etc - then arrive and have to drive many miles to the track - stay in a budget hotel overnight and be up and out at stupid oclock to get to another Country. Just in Brady's case just imagine doing those 2 meetings Monday - off to and riding Sweden Tue and then up at stupid oclock to get back to UK (maybe Heath/Gatw as not many serve Swe) and then trek off to KL. I agree its their career choice, but its his first real season of Country hopping and must have some affect. I know I am knackered from travelling when just going on holiday so to do it several times a week with all the hassle involved as we are a poor man's sport, plus trying to constantly keep at top level. Again just airing that it may be a big contributing factor to his in and out form in his first real year of constant commuting, although I don't disagree some of it with Brady my also be phsycological. Lambert has taken to it like a duck to water. I wonder if having his good looking girlfriend living in Germany may also be a help as when I have seen photos of them at xmas etc he looked happy and settled. Maybe Kurtz living out of temporary accomodation supplied by Middleditch and being far from homeland may also contribute.

Robert has thrived on it Kurtz has not. I won't give up on Kurtz just yet as the likes of Leszno and the Swedes must have seen something there as they are no mugs. I hope he doesn't become another Dakota North or one of those many young Aussies that promise so much but ultimately reach a level then fade. He has it in him to beat anyone in the World on his day and does, he needs to do it consistently and I think a lot of it is in his head. He can go through the card but in the most important final he will hit the tapes - fall or put in a mare. Would prefer to judge him more end of NEXT season when he will be turning 23 to see if he is going forward. Similar to Lambert who many felt with his poor starting etc he was going to maybe fall short. He has blown many away with his form and consistency this season. Let's also not forget young Robert was riding well under aged on German tracks before he got into KL as a young 16 year old in 2014. No denying his talent at 20 and has reveled in the busy European schedule and all those Individual meetings like World U21 - SEC etc. I just hope that Kurtz can step up and show he is really World class in 2019. You never know what can happen when you reach 28/29/30, just ask a Mr C Holder who has gone backwards in each of the last 3 seasons. (Reasons for it maybe but not acceptable 3 seasons running).

Not questioning last night but his performances this season have been VERY up and down hence why he has lost over a point on his starting av. Just trying to understand a reason behind it and maybe this is why ??. I agree a lot is in his head as he has choked in many a big meeting final. He needs to find consistency which maybe he will as he matures and also gets used to the hectic schedule during a season for the top riders. Don't expect sympathy for him as after all, other than the Aussie Champs end of the year/Jan they don't ride between Oct & March so have plenty of time for leisure in close season. Especially in a hot Aussie while the rest of us freeze in Europe. Some like Chris Holder have in effect been on near enough vacation since the weekend when in effect he cost Torun their play off place and even his Swe side dropped him for their last meeting as they were out of the play offs. Only has the last few GP's and thankfully he will be out of those after this season due to his inept performances throughout Europe. I reckon he will be looking for a new POL & Swe club and as for UK ??? Who knows. No GP's to boot. How the mighty and stupid (as was his reason for getting no visa/permit) have fallen.

I think Brady has struggled with doing the 3 Leagues POL EXL/Swe Elite and Prem for the first time. Not all immediately embrace chasing around all over Europe plus individual qualifiers and international meetings in their first season of doing it. Last season he did a few POl & Swe meetings but nothing compared to a full program. We have to remember he is still 21 and this was his first real breakout season all around Europe. Anderson has done 3/4 leagues for years but even he has had plenty of up and down meetings in POL/SWE. Easy to forget he rode 2 meetings Monday - rushed off the Swe for Elite meeting Tue and then flew back Wed to ride at KL. Yes they are professional riders but getting too and from airports with long drives either end and that's without the flying itself must take its affect when its your first real season of doing all 3 FULL TIME. Similar with Woryna and the recently arrived Jakobsen. That's why I feel whatever the outcome is of this season, getting lower av for next season is a bonus in Matt Ford's team building for 2018 with all 3 well under the 8 point heat leader limit (if it stays that is). Surely all 3 have decent futures even with British tracks being a great leveler.

Yep and so late in the season with this meeting not changing anything, I reckon its av adjusting for next season ;-) Would you agree that if you could freeze the current av now (see my post earlier), then to get Kurt/Wory/Jak on those av would in my opinion be a steal for 2019 as gives Matt Ford plenty to plan around. Add Holder jr also who is improving as I thought he would. That would be 4 riders sorted whatever changes at the BSPA AGM and also whatever the league set us is.

Based on the current updated GSA's after last nights match (see Poole website Pirates stats), I can't see the last match changing anything. For example Worrall too far behind Woryna so will probably stay at reserve in Sept/Oct. Harris/Kurtz only 0.10 in it but remember it is on a 20 match rolling av on GSA's so would have to see a big shift to put Harris at No 1 in last match imo. However find it interesting that imo the only 3 riders guaranteed for 2019 are starting to have interestingly low av for team building 2019. Kurtz on 6.80 - Woryna on 6.37 and Jakobsen sitting nicely on 4.96 after his 4 zero's last night. Gives Matt Ford option to get a TRUE heatleader and probably also get Holder Jr back for 2019 as he is Poole's asset and sitting on 7.23 after last night. Of course much depends on what the League set up will be for 2019 as well as team building points limit and will there be a one over 8 rule again. Even so the 4 named is a decent base as I can't believe the first 3 named (Kur/Wory/Jak) will be as low as they a re currently in 2019.

If I was being cynical I would say last night was a deliberate attempt to keep Jakobsen and Woryna in the reserve berths for the last month of the regular season. That date is 23rd Aug. As for the rest of Poole besides Klindt who rode well the rest of them looked like they were out to drag their GSA's down for next season. When you look at Poole's remaining fixtures they could still miss out of the play offs. Swindon Wed is no cake walk with 2 riders missing. Somerset at home they could well lose. Swindon and Kings Lynn away not easy but much at KL may depend on how their double header with Wolves go. Could well come down to last meeting against Wolves and scrabbling for the odd point away to get into the top 4. A win against Swindon on Wed would calm the nerves a little, otherwise it may be squeaky bum time.

So what now for Chris Holder in what must be his worse year in top flight speedway results wise. Unable to ride UK as banned and nobody seems any further forward from what I read as to whether he will be allowed to ride again in UK. Almost certainly out of the SGP series for 2019 and let's hope there is no rule bending by Monster Joe as the SGP main sponsors to get him in through the back door again on a Wild Card. There are better riders both established and young up and coming more deserving then what he has achieved over the last 2 seasons. Reading the Polish sites he cost his team the win at Sparta last night with a pathetic 2 points and seems was even dropped in 2 rides. Brother Jack scored 11 from 5 completed rides as fell in one race. Rumour is this is the straw that has broken the camels back, as it meant they can't qualify now for the play offs in their last meeting and he will almost certainly be shown the door after the last meeting. No doubt will get fixed up elsewhere but he called Torun his second home in an interview last season on camera. His performances in Sweden have been very up and down and his team will not make the play offs. Wouldnt surprise me if they also release him. I have been very supportive of Chris in the past but his personal problems which led to his banning in UK seem to be mainly of his own making from what I have heard and no excuse for his poor performances in POL & GP's. Many top riders GP hold reasonable form as they mature into their late 20'/30's but Chris has gone backwards arguably in each of the last 3 seasons getting worse each year. Still only 31 in September but even at such a young age you have to ask are his best days now gone. Question now is that IF he does get ok to ride UK again would Matt really want a rider going in reverse, and is his 7 point av probably indicative of the best you would get out of him anyway. Maybe some stability and riding with Jack in UK may help as he does have his house here. One could argue that Jack is getting better and as a Poole asset and together with Chris then MAYBE between them they are worth more as a pair than what their present combined GSA's of approx 14.06 for the two portray. (I took Jacks form the current Somerset site where it shows his current 20 match rolling GSA).

I thinks Brady has really suffered from taking on the 3 leagues in POL/SWE/UK as he was not used to flying in and out constantly. Even his POL forays previously were only for a few meetings. Where Lambert really has thrived this season by taking on so many Brady has gone the other way on too many occasions. Of course this season is important but from a future GSA perspective the Poole team only have another 6 matches (3 away) to get there GSA's finalised for 2019. As it stands most of (if not all) the team are on attractive GSA's and if we are going towards one League in 2019 (maybe with some regionalisation) then these lowish GSA's could be so important for inclusion into the Poole team for 2019. After the 24 match regular season ends the riders can fill their boots with as many points as possible in the play offs

Have a quick look at the rider stats on the Poole website which have been updated to incl Mondays match. These seemed to be fully up to date and show the rolling av which the SGB site also uses for calculations. The good news is that Brady is on 7.31 so still below that magical 8. Last night's poor score helped. Fortunately BP don't count on GSA and our lads sure have raked up a fair few. Frederik in his 8 meetings has 10 BP already but fortunately they don't count in GSA and he is on 5.52 so should stay in reserve with Woryna who is on 6.05. Josh is next lowest at 6.29 even after last nights heroics. Harris sitting on 6.91 so all good news for forward thinking team building. Still early doors but with some tough away matches in those last 6 qualifiers (as play offs don't count on GSA's) at Swindon - Somerset and KL it may well keep the riders around the same levels on GSA going into the last GSA calculation after the 24 match regular season. Could well be team points limit is the bigger challenge rather than a one over 8 heatleader. Of course the league structure for 2019 will be very important.

Matt never misses the opportunity to keep Poole in the sports news of the Echo. A lot will depend on the league structure for 2019 - Team points limit - Will there be a one over 8 point ceiling rule retained for heat leaders - that could work out quite nicely for Poole whatever the new set up if all the riders stay below 8 and with only 7 qualifying fixtures left (as Playoffs don't count on GSA) then Poole could finish the season with all riders under 8. With Brady currently on 7.53 and with his inconsistency he could well stay just shy of 8. Bomber is on 6.99 and much for next season may also depend on what his final GSA is in the remaining 7 matches. At around 7 he is still decent value as he is a trier who can actually overtake from the back. Also NO baggage attached with no real overseas clashes/commitments, and lives UK so won't break the Bank. Thought something may have crept out about possible scenario League wise for next season after Jon Cook eluded to exciting plans being formulated by the BSPA for 2019. Surely that MUST be in reference to the League structure for next season. He said he was available to discuss certain things on the first bend recently during a home meeting but have seen nothing come out re these new exciting plans. Still early days I know but rumours tend to creep out sometimes.

Saw a recent photo from the UK SGP round where him and Matt seemed to be up close and cosy before the meeting. Matt is not stupid and maybe there has been some bridge building. Considering what future he may have and being a Poole asset I am sure Matt will want to repair the relationship as best possible. Especially if there is also still a chance that Chris could also return, so to have both would still be good for Matt even if Chris is not quite the rider he once was. Neither is Harris on the World stage but still a good team man in our watered down league and hopefully Chris would be similar with his still decent av well below 8. Still think he would be good for Jack in the pits. Of course what kind of League set up we get for 2019 could be important but having these 2 on say a combined 14 point av with Brady Kurtz also hopefully shy of 8 points still and factor in Jacobsen (hopefully won't climb too much in the GSA with only 7 qualifying matches left as playoffs don't count). Add Woryna and maybe Klindt who has been riding well then a good looking team possibility. As said all depends on league set up and points limits for 2019 and of course the BIG question regarding Holder Sr if he will be allowed to ride in UK again.

A bit early I know but anyone know if C.Holder may be allowed to ride again in 2019 ?? Raise the question as I am sure Matt would like to have both Holders back for 2019 if he can get them. I see Chris is doing badly in the SGP and almost certain he won't get into top 8 qualifiers for 2019 in 4 remaining rounds, currently 12 out of 15 (excl wildcards). Pedersen 10th and after last night thing both him and Doyle 11th who has had injuries will likely get WC as maybe Vaculik who has been injured and didnt get a real chance from his WC for 2018. A real conundrum for Monster who are main sponsors and also sponsor Holder. Based on form last season and this he doesnt deserve arguably to be in as there are maybe more deserving riders coming through. But Speedway being what it is will his mate Monster Joe protect his Sponsorship interests and wrangle him in again. Arguably would be unfair to some of the better youngsters coming through and other younger established riders who are in front on merit alone with Holder continually going backwards in POL and Swe. If he doesn't get in then assume he will have to ride in Aussie Champ to have chance to qualify and would no GP mean he would be more desperate to ride in UK League 2019 IF he is given the all clear which surely there must be a decision on well before the 2019 start. For sure he is a shadow of what he has been even if he does still look all action on the bike.

Getting back to the subject of Speedway.... Has anyone picked up on the comment made today by Jon Cook on both the Lakeside website and on the SGB notice put out today. It was maybe lost on some hidden within the notice about Lakeside but interesting none the least and wonder being a Poole Supporter what my Poole Forum colleagues may make of it as it was coming from a Champ Promoter. and the exciting plans formulated by the British Speedway Promoters’ Association for season 2019.” Could it be a dropped hint maybe about one big league maybe with regionalisation possible as posted by another forum contributer only recently ??

Out of interest, how did the crowd figure look on Monday. Looking at the POL video posted by Nightshift it looked pretty poor on the parts the camera covered, but couldnt see what it was like in I assume the main stand where the camera was posted.

Well we all agree on one thing. Speedway needs some major surgery and replanning on how it goes forward or it really will die. Hopefully something can still be salvaged even if not at the top level of Poland. Let's hope Matt doesn't walk away as we need visionaries like him. If he goes then we really will see problems.

Don't disagree that we have to much non speedway posts incl too much of the above. However even if you strip all that out (incl similar on other teams posts), think you will find Poole still way out in front on posts read/replied.

You sure ?? Maybe look again. Since 21st July 2017. - 647,179 views and 9,727 replies. No other Prem post is within half of that and many not even a third.

Thanks Keith & Starman. Yes maybe I do get too involved and the posts are sometimes long, but sometimes a post needs explaining hence why some do go on a bit. Will keep short in future in the hope that some engage in sensible response like you guys.

Let's hope that someone sitting on their backsides at the BSPA at least reads some of these Forum Topics and especially this one as its relevant to the sport in general. I cant believe in a sport of falling attendances they can be overworked in head Office. You would hope that someone looks in regular to at least see that our Sport is in a dire state. Whoops - Just made the mistake of associating the BSPA to understanding what supporters feel may be better for the sport......