STEVEHOLS54
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Everything posted by STEVEHOLS54
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Should have expected that from you DC . But nothing wrong with friendly banter as none of us want it to be too serious on here. Some of the comments are partly true though. There seem plenty who only use the forum for the sake of having a go or being rude with snide comments. To be honest since I joined nearly 2 years ago I am becoming disillusioned with the Forum in general. I made the mistake of still thinking there was sensible debate to be had and an exchange of views on the team where we can take the sport forward to help it survive. It seems the majority don't see to give a toss and certainly don't want to engage in sensible discussion. Yet they are only to willing to indulge and keep indulging in petty snipes and insults as if they have nothing better to fill their day. Many of whom obviously retired with nothing to contribute. Apologies in advance to the minority who do engage in sensible discussion, especially Poole which is my main Speedway interest. An example last week where I did an in depth post on Poole 2018 about MY views on a way forward. From memory - Not one like or anything as a dislike. In fact I can't remember one view as to a constructive alternative to a way forward other than I think one poster rolled out the old chestnut of not enough riders. Believe me with 5 main riders and say 2 N/L riders per team there probably would be or even if we went with 6 man teams incl using N/L riders. Anyway think I will keep my views on the future of the sport to myself in future and let's just see which direction (if any) the sport takes.
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I think the Speedway Forum itself shows the state of our sport. Wolves v Somerset - Only 14 replies and 735 views since it was put up Belle Vue v Swindon - Only 20 replies from 1366 views since it was started Sunday Then we have: Leicester v Poole - 201 replies from 8867 views since started Friday. In a way I think the Forum kind of mirror images that lack of real interest. Poole has its fair share of haters and wind up merchants but even so, whether it be Poole 2018 or individual matches the contributions and views are way ahead of the others. That's not a gloat at others but to show the general lack on people interested in contributing to the sport in general.
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Well if I were Poole I would go for that. See Pooles scores over the 2 matches. Poole: Stefan Nielsen 8+2 (5 rides), Kacper Woryna 8 (5), Richie Worrall 7+3 (5), Linus Sundstrom 6+2 (4), Brady Kurtz 6 (4), Mateusz Szczepaniek 6 (4), Josh Grajczonek 1 (3). Poole:Stefan Nielsen 11+2, Linus Sundstrom 9+2, Josh Grajczonek 8+2, Brady Kurtz 7, Mateusz Szczepaniak 6+3, Kacper Woryna 6+1, Richie Worrall R/R. Considering BP don't count and Nielsen out injured they could work to Pooles advantage in lowering some riders GSA's or if the team were looking at a team redeclaration ?? Must admit still not convinced on the team. We got lucky last night that Klindt did well on a track that used to be his home and he has always ridden it well (even if a bit of reshaping). Others it was the same old same old and again Sundstrom didnt impress me. Maybe Woryna still carrying n injury from Sunday. Still think we need one more change and be interesting to see depending on if SCB remove the above points and depending upon what Harris & Nicholls get redeclared at if the SCB are looking at their av. Can't see either getting a team if they don't. If they go back to their starting av for the season then imo they definitely wont get a team on 7.48 & 7.63 SN/CH.
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just calculated and according to current GSA av Poole have a team total of 41.75 and Josh G has a GSA of 6.12 thanks to a continually falling 20 match rolling av due to his poor form overall this season which has dragged his total 20 match GSA down. Nicholls based on his current GSA for Rye is on 7.35. Too high, as if Ford redeclared his team JG 6.12 plus 0.75 to play with to keep within the 42.5 limit only gives 6.87 to play with for another rider. However interestingly Harris current GSA is 6.86 which JUST fits. Only way Nicholls would get in is if they cancelled the riders GSA's as results void and they converted their current Champ GSA's at 1.3 meaning they switch as Harris would be on 6.25 but Nicholls would be 6.07 so could be a straight replacement. Harris would then need to go in on a team redeclaration. Of course the $64,000 question which none of us know the answer to is WHAT GSA would each rider now be given in the circumstances. I think on their current Rye GSA's I cannot see them getting into any team (other than Harris into maybe Poole) as most teams are well above 42.5 and others either the riders they could replace through injury or out of form either have av below or the team total wont allow redeclaration within the 42.5 point limit. Wonder if the SCB will do anything to give both at least a chance to get signed as innocent victims of the situation. We will no doubt find out this month as 23rd July is cut off date for riders GSA's for August plus no doubt team's last last signings have to be made I assume by end July ??
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Poor Josh G has found his POL experience a baptism of fire. Having become a POL citizen he rode the weekend in POL Champ semi final where he was in effect totally outclassed by the Poles and scraped a couple of points from 5 rides. In his Pol Nice 1 matches he sits a lowly 42nd out of 55 in points av. Bearing in mind he isn't even riding in POL EXL it looks to me like a real struggle. With all his constant commuting costs etc I hope he isnt losing out big time compared to what he would have been earning with regular rides in Champ plus no doubt he used to get plenty of guest bkgs. If he doesnt pick up I doubt in any POL Nice side will be interested next season let alone POL EXL.
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Well its a start
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Aha. Someone coming around to partly my way of thinking if you read my post on the Poole Forum
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just aired my thoughts on a way forward on the Poole 2018 Forum.
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Yes can never criticise Len for his enthusiasm for the club. I started seeing Hackney Hawks as a young 16 year old in 1970 and then Rye a little later (when i had more money to afford the travel oorm Hackney and the entrance fee). We use to goad and take the Mickey out of Len as we were always promised big riders like Michaneck who didnt arrive 2 weeks on the bounce (and never did) and our replacement was.... Finn Thomsen. We used to laugh/joke and have banter from the terrace on to the centre green/track with good old Len. But we turned up every week, took it in good heart and was all part of the sport. If it wasnt for Len then there wouldnt have been Hackney/Rye. So much as we got frustrated (in a fun way) we always got our speedway fix with riders trying their best and within a budget Len could afford to keep the club going.
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I throw this one open to my Poole Supporter colleagues but to anyone else as we seem to be the most visited Forum topic anyway I put up the idea some time ago that MAYBE to save the sport in UK we should change the format to reduce costs. My idea revolved around one big league. Or 2 regional leagues with say the top 4 from each going into a play off system. Just knocking the ideas around here. Each team to be made up of 5 riders (come back to that) plus 2 N/L riders say 22 or under. I say that age range to give our young riders or 16/17/18 a chance as most over 22 have been around a while in N/L and either have/will never make the top 1/2 flights. Or if a promoter feels he wants to put one in his top 5 so be it. Then it surely would reduce cost by not having 7 top riders. Matches could be programmed where the N/L riders get say 2 N/L rider quality rides only against each other and then 1 from each team to be raced against each other together with a top half rider in the other 2 so they get that valuable experience of riding against proven riders and they don't get hammered each ride thus affecting their confidence as they progress. These riders can also keep their N/L places to help further their development. A min of 3 rides per N/L rider (lets call them the reserves for this exercise). The top 5 to be made up to a points limit which is workable for all or the majority of promoters. If the promotors want to use all foreign riders - or a mix of Uk/foreign or even all UK that is their choice. My reasoning behind this is that some foreign riders will still want to ride UK because either they are resident here. Such as Doyle/NKI/Klindt/Holder Sr etc or they reside mainly in UK during our Speedway season such as all the Aussies. We should not distract those promoters who do want some of the exciting foreign talent IF they feel they can afford the expense or have Sponsors who are willing to finance it. We would have a natural culling on that score anyway due to my next point. Teams should be allowed to ride on race days that suit them and not days dictated by the FIM who ultimately will protect Poland which I fully understand as ultimately whichever way you want to view it, they rule the speedway World in respect of Stadia/Crowds/Finance from local towns/cities (they are so bloody lucky)/Sponsorship and rider quality. IF a UK team chooses say a Saturday to help save the club financially and to get better support, then a rider can decide if he wants to ride UK or pass up and bow to his say Polish Masters who pay the vast majority of his salary. We have to accept that as no way these top guys will pass on Poland. Same when it comes to SWE/DK. Now this may cost us some riders and with it the promoters also save the large expense that comes with some who don't reside here. BUT the time has come for UK to get its house in order or the sport dies. Ultimately the fate of our Sport may be decided anyway by falling crowds - stadium redevelopment into residential/industrial just as it has with things like the sport itself and greyhound racing. Maybe the number of clubs will drop eventually and the force of numbers forces us into one league anyway just to survive. Obviously there are various variations or no doubt ideas on how the above could be developed, but hopefully someone out there and maybe even promoter/s may look in and take some of the thoughts forward as we sure do need to do something more radical to save the sport. Another idea is maybe 6 man teams with a 4 plus 2 or 5 plus 1 idea based on my above thoughts. Again putting out there as food for thought.
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Good luck to anyone moving there as not a great location/place. Maybe ever more warehousing as plenty of that in the area being fairly close to ports etc. Have seen plenty of tracks down here close in the 48 years I have been supporting Speedway incl 2 of my favourites in my beloved Hackney Hawks/Kestrels and 2 faithful seasons I attended the eerily under attended White City. At least they won the League one season which we never achieved with the Hawks, although they did win one when they dropped a league as the Kestrels. Oh happier days
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Could it have been that nothing could be agreed until the RH situation was finalised ?? Maybe Harris was trying to jump ship too early although I could understand his situation if he wasnt getting paid by Rye. Be interesting to see what they are/were owed and when (if at all) they were ever paid. Doubt we will ever get such info in the short or long term. There is also the question of what kind of GSA both Harris and Nicholl's will get after all the results were cancelled out. None of us know that answer either as on their current actual RH GSA's both will find it difficult to get into any Prem side.
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P.S: Interesting choice of words re wedding vows as celebrated our 43rd wedding anniversary today. Jeez that is a lifetime huh ??
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LOL Sorry DC I do tend to get really into this forum thing since i first discovered it 2 years ago. But don't knock it mate. You can hopefully tell I love the sport and am really into some of the stats side as well as being an enthusiastic supporter who likes having open debate with others interested. Not all this bloody back biting that goes on. But I enjoy some of the witty posts. One liners anyone can do incl me but I like the debate element. Remember I am a speedway supporter of many years and one of a dying breed as there is less young talent/supporters joining us. Hopefully the sport will still outlive me but you have to cast some doubts when you see whats going on. Was lucky enough to be able to take early retirement 2 years ago after 46 years in the Shipping biz. (My decision to retire early). Suppose I still partly miss the buzz and hustle/bustle of working life which maybe why i throw myself more into the Forum (specially Poole) even though based in Chelmsford- Essex. Anyway better go as rambling again
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Which from a financial perspective are more lucrative than Speedway and the also slowly dying Greyhound racing. Not defending these people but it is a realistic fact of the World we now live in. Places like Lakeside can survive as arguably not real building land imo and nothing better to do than use an old run down stadium for bangers/stocks and Speedway. It pays revenue rather than having a derelict out of the way empty site that many wouldnt even know exists if you removed the signs. Swindon seems to me from what I read to now be part of a major housing development with the possibility to also cash in with either more housing ?? or warehousing of which both would reap financial rewards. Speedway and greyhounds won't.
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End of season playoffs to change
STEVEHOLS54 replied to ReadingRacer2017's topic in SGB Premiership Speedway League
Well it sure does when you are siting pretty on top of the league currently and only having lost 3 points for the home win against Rye. Not much fun for those aiming for a top 4 place who lost more points like Poole losing 4 where it hits them more in their quest. To me this obviously benefits your club and arguably works against your local rivals Poole but in fairness also other teams fighting for a top 4 even before Rye went to the wall. -
Poole Pirates Vs Belle Vue Aces 4/7/18
STEVEHOLS54 replied to Shaleshifter's topic in SGB Premiership Speedway League
Some forget that Cook gets away with plenty of rollers compared to the amount he gets caught out. Hans Anderson also gets away but he seems to have subtly mastered it most times and suppose it all comes down to exact timing. Human reaction time I suppose but some are a bit more blatant. I am sure I saw Sargeant doing it a lot on Sky a few years ago and was even mentioned by Pearson/Tatum. Good when it works but don't complain when you get caught out, get a handicap or hit the tapes. In his defence last night he did brilliantly to take Jacobsen off 15 metres and I felt he may well have also caught Sundstrom had he stayed up or at least given him a major scare on the last corner. But then again he may well have got away with a flyer/roller as no tape in front of him From what i have seen of Cook in interviews etc he can be pretty intense and takes team losses personally. I am sure he would also have been frustrated that having ridden brilliantly to get so close to a win off the handicap he then blew it by sliding off into the fence. Fortunately only his pride dented and he will fight to ride another day. Wouldn't have affected the result anyway and as Steve said he got away with a monstor roller in one ride so things have a habit sometimes of evening themselves out. -
Well in Jon Cooks decent article today on the Lakeside website he says that there is a BSPA Association meeting next week. They could hold it as an extraordinary meeting in view of the dire circumstances the sport is facing. Even if it is to get an agreement in principal on how they approach the annual BSPA Conference and do they really need to get their backsides into gear a lot earlier than November in order to put in a framework for the sport that stops some either shutting up shop or walking away from the sport. It's surely got to be at the stage now where some major surgery is performed and not pussy footing around so that we lose more clubs and more importantly supporters. if many of these people with decent and successful business interests cannot find a solution then we are on a one way ticket out. Fortunately we still have decent youngsters coming through in the N/L worth watching, but what kind of message does this send to them from a speedway career perspective if they see the sport going to the wall and slowly self destructing itself.
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I am sure that any promotion involved in a play off place with one or several or in one case all 7 riders would have blocked any move to a Saturday. Secondly if certain riders had not been paid, who is to say such riders themselves would not have started a process of at least entering into dialogue with other potential club/s. Lets not deem riders as being stupid. Some of the more clued up and potentially well represented legally, would have had an idea RH were possibly in deep brown smelly stuff as riders like Harris and Nicholl's have both faced non payment of wages from overseas clubs before so are pretty clued up as to how things are looking. If I was a rider for sure I would have started tapping in to potential suitor/s on the Q.T to protect my income. It was the end of June when this blew up but no doubt had been possibly building for some time. Still 3 months at least of the season to go. Let's not assume it was a club/s tapping up the riders after the announcement. If one didnt know better one could say ahhh yes its Poole. Have potentially 7 riders (the whole team) who cant ride on a Saturday (thus poss losing points in their quest for a play off) and Matt Ford said around same time as the announcement that he was keeping options open and would not rule out a further change to the team if it didnt perform even if it meant releasing an asset in the short term. But that would just be cynical as none of us know if a club or clubs or even the riders themselves tapped each other up. All we do know is their are financial problems also involving the riders and the owners given the opportunity to resolve them can't and as such their licence is revoked.
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i am sure that Nicholl's on good advice from his lawyer would have kept his silence and rightly so if he did take such a course in order to protect both his and the bigger situation. Before some go on the defensive as to putting out rumours which are baseless let's not lose site of the BSPA/SCB announcnement and for me the relevant section. BMR Speedway Ltd, the club owners, and riders made the British Speedway Promoters’ Association aware of debts building and every opportunity was given for these to be reduced and finally settled.However, it has become apparent this is now not possible. Note the ref to RIDERS. That in effect is near enough saying not been paid. This is a Forum and in effect we are free (within reason) to debate/speculate/rumour/exchange views etc. Comments I put forward are partly based on what the statement said. I can fully understand why some (if not all clubs) wont support a race Saturday for the rest of the season view. I am sure the relevant parties i.e SCB/BSPA would have tried to assist where they could as don't forget it took a week for this statement to appear. Speedway is not awash with cash either at club level or within the BSPA. Why throw good money after bad as its obvious to most they were not in a position to survive without major surgery in the form of major financial help and a probable move of race day to the detriment of other teams. If they really are serious about continuing in the future then move into a league which better suits their budget and on a race day which makes them financially viable moving forward. The likes of Lakeside dropped out of the Prem went into the N/L and then into Champ and its worked well so far. Crowds may not be brilliant but hopefully the product is more sustainable with decent promotion/sponsorship without the top overpaid riders. Also on race days which suits them better.
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No but even I remember back in the early seventees where BIG money POL didnt rule the speedway roost. Riders like Barry Briggs rode Saturday in UK. These days he would be riding for the big money in POL so sure wouldnt be there on a Saturday.
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Jeez - Don't remind me. It was a year where my 2 nearest and loved clubs almost pulled off a unique double. Hackney and Rye House. I got the best of both leagues on a Friday and Sunday. The nearest, my beloved Hawks ever came to winning the top division and I supported them as a 16 year old from 1970. But your point is yes so many clubs - so many matches with not only League but KO Cup and Individual rider championship's/meetings. Have to say was best time for me between 70 and say early eightees.
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Perhaps the problems are various fold. One MUST surely be finance and maybe riders have not been paid. For example I know that when Nichols could not get a Champ berth due to the new rules he sought out a decent lawyer who helped fight his case to get the rule changed as it was robbing him of his living (partly). If he had not been paid for some time by BMR then maybe he again got a decent lawyer to go after them. If it affected him then multiply by the other riders. We don't know amounts involved and were there other creditors stacking up unpaid ?? Secondly maybe they did push for part of the agreement requiring Saturday racing which yes may help them but what about other teams fighting for the play offs. if those teams had several riders commited to abroad at weekends, and in the case of say Poole all 7, then can you not understand why they would not be happy to face trips to Rye who would only have probably be missing KK or Somerset missing at least Doyle & Holder Jr and also the other teams who would be relying probably mainly on Champ quality guests and some of them already commited abroad at weekends or for grass/long track. Yes all want a club to survive but not if its going to cost them maybe a possible play off place. Also did i read somewhere that a portion of the away clubs wages are paid for by the home side in Prem. If they are in effect bust can you see clubs who are already bleeding money (i.e all of them) going to be willing to go to RH with in effect no revenue forthcoming ?? No for me the right thing was done. Close it up and if they can rise again maybe in a lower league and they can finance it, plus on a race night that works for them and the others than fair enough.
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Poole Pirates Vs Belle Vue Aces 4/7/18
STEVEHOLS54 replied to Shaleshifter's topic in SGB Premiership Speedway League
Perhaps Lemon was reflecting on a BAD day all round for BV. Lost 6 points wiped as a result of losing the wins against RH and maybe thought he would beat Poole as well after the inconsistencies of this season. That is in effect 9 points down the swannie in less than 24 hours. Am pleased a ref manned up to Cook an his constant jump starting. have witnessed it also in the GP where he has tried it on. Think he gets away with it quite a bit probably over here so can't complain if he finally gets pulled for trying it a few times too often. Don't get me wrong as he is a totally commited BV rider and supporter and you can see it hurts him big time when they have lost out in finals and play offs. Nothing wrong with such commitment but ultimately all riders have to follow as much as possible the standing start and not constantly rolling or jump starting. It takes special talent to get away with rolling. Just ask Hans Anderson who has mastered it over the years but within the rules . They should be ok for the play offs but doubt they will finish top thus missing out on semi choice ??. The 9 points missed wont help that cause. -
No just airing an off the cuff comment made and to a degree I see his point. BUT something has to be done to save the sport. We can't keep going down this slippery slope. Maybe some of the better and successful run clubs in Champ come up to a revamped/redesigned Prem where it is made attractive for all ?? As said I don't have all the answers but we can't afford to lose the likes of Poole or any clubs for that matter. If a well run club like Poole is maybe considering its position what does that say for the rest of the teams who don't enjoy the financial income form Sponsorship that maybe Poole do. There are enough successful business heads within the BSPA but they have to find common ground on a way forward in a format all can ultimately live with. Its either that or the sport is doomed in its current format. If it also means more flexibility on race nights even if it does mean some of the top riders pass on UK then so be it but for sure something has to be done.