STEVEHOLS54

Thanks Phil. Was busy typing on the Forum and just saw this so indeed you got in first Kind of confirms what we all feared and a sad day for the sport.

But it does highlight to a degree that we are an aging fan base as we are not attracting enough younger people into the sport. I ceertainly dont feel like I am 3 months short of 64 and certainly dont look it so I am told LOL. But its nice to have the memories of when the sport was at another level support wise and having witnessed the greats such as Mauger - Briggs - Michanek - Olsen to name but a few and even riders at the end of their careers when I first started to see it such as Ronnie Moore - Jackie Biggs. Those memories cannot be erased as thankfully I can say I did my bit in turning up every week for many years even when my club was not doing so well as it as the racing that was important. Well as a Hackney supporter with Len Silver was at the helm it as never going to be BIG in signings. Remember when we were promised Michanek but he never arrived a couple of weeks running and we ended up with Dag Lovaas. Not quite the same but typical of Len I suppose. Couldnt pick up the mobile in those days or email so it was all down to landline communication.

Would indeed be sad but no great surprise. We have also seen it with Coventry where we know they want to redevelop the site. Speedway will NEVER return there and personally I hope not as the stadium is now in effect a dump. You look at what's going on at Rye and you think, Jeez where will it all end.

Is there any realistic time limit on when one might expect a decision on whether there really is going to be a stadium built on or around the existing site or whether the demands of modern housing sites ultimately take precidence in overtaking situations such as this ?? I am not from the area but if the housing development has proceeded at its amazingly fast pace as most housing developments do when money is involved in changing hands on completion, then if there are resident concerns on noise levels etc (understandable if they really are that close), then surely at some stage something has to give/happen one way or the other. We all know that planning changes/objections/amendments can take forever to go through authorities, but with the new stadium having been agreed so long ago yet the housing has pressed on regardless, then surely there must be some idea if this stadium will become a reality or maybe just more housing?? Believe there is also greyhound racing ?? which if the case is it basically in a similar supportive state to our dwindling Speedway. I.E: For many it won't be missed and I don't mean that sarcastically as I would love to see a new stadium built to hopefully help save the sport in Swindon.

Well I still buy it but admit not every week. In my loft i have neatly packed away lots of SS from the early and mid seventies plus lots of programmes from the same period and eightees. I first came into the sport as a 16 year old in 1970/71. Fell in love with it and been a fan ever since . Keep saying I will open up the 2 large boxes and look back on those programs from Hackney (my home club for years before they closed) - Rye House - West Ham - White City - Wimbledon etc. Lost of happy memories when we had a much better support days way before those days of computers/mobile phones - modern technology etc.

Yes and its for reasons like this that Phil said last week that he has to go and lie down in a darkened room when he see's the current SS circulation figures. Suppose its indicative of our Sport in general in UK

Thanks Phil. Appreciate that you can't release things you don't know but the SS is a publication that many of us read (I am sure you would like more ) and anything that can at least point Speedway fans in general in the direction at least of what might be going on is better than what we have presently i.e No News.

Have got to see Starman's many posts and replies over the 2 years I have been on the Forum, and have noticed a moderation of tone since his major op. Don't want to go into too much as its personal to him but many who follow his posts know how serious it was. From a personal perspective I have found that when it comes to sensible Speedway discussion he has proved very engaging and I have NEVER had any problems or issues with exchange posts even if we don't always agree on certain points relating to the Poole Team or the Club. Let's also be honest this is a Poole Forum so I keep my comments relative to the subject matter. I think this is the thing. We can have a laugh- a joke - sometimes the odd wind up but ultimately we all love the sport and of course if we get some of the trolls or people who go out of their way just to wind up certain parties then it will cause some friction. Some may not understand that Mike had a vert serious and possibly life threatening Brain illness that could have ended his life. However he came through it (with some difficulties) and for me has been more engaging when exchanging views on our team. Never bad words exchanged even if we don't always see eye to eye (i.e Mr Sundstrom being an example - I am still not convinced but Starman has always advocated patience with him and say he is improving - the jury is still out, but we can exchange politely without reverting to back biting). I just feel that we should be a little understanding. Its obvious that Mike still gets difficult moments as he said openly on this forum a bit earlier, but I am sure if it had been me or anyone exchanging sensible discussion, that he would still have posted or replied in the same manner. He has a lot of knowledge/experience of the sport over the years and I for one feel we should embrace such fans on the forum. Mike only gets agitated with those who tend to wind up when its not necessary. In many cases he ignores a lot of it. Anyway I have never met Starman but from what I have learned since his major operation he is a decent guy who I enjoy exchanging views/posts with. P.S: Part of the reason for having not met him is because I live 3.5 hours plus away from Poole in darkest Essex

Meaning you have some news or you have nothing more than the rumours circulating ?? Don't expect you to reveal the headline of the SS article or its full content Phil, but would be good to know if SS does have access to what is going on and can at least give some insight to the fans who so far have been treated like mushrooms in a dark potting shed.

It is incredible that over 1 week since the first announcement was put out, there has not been a single statement form the BSPA as to what is/may be going on. Appreciate there may have been some internal negotiations/discussions but it just further highlights the problems at the so called top level of the sport. It also adds confusion when one reads on the Swindon Forum that approval has been given for the demolition of the current stadium but nothing is mentioned about what about the new stadium that was supposed to have been built 1/2 years ago. Comments about complaints from new residents on the new housing development about Speedway noise but not one positive comment put out that work will start on the new stadium on ???. Also one poster mentions that too long a gap between meetings and maybe the 11th July home meeting may be in doubt ???. May all be just rumour but no news coming out of such situations just frustrates things for all concerned with the clubs. Perhaps the current issues are wider reaching than just Rye House ??? Very worrying times.

Seems the SGB site threw a few of us. Decided to put the updated Team GSA's for July under 2018 Team Declarations rather than under the normal 2018 Greensheet Averages. Shame as would have preferred to have seen Woryna in their longer especially with BV coming to Poole Wed. Also most unlike Matt or the Echo to be behind on releasing the signing before it was leaked on the SGB GSA sheet yesterday. Not that it matters as important thing is Jacobsen has signed. One for next year I think and let him bed in and get used to our tracks for the rest of this season. Won't be short of rides as he also does DK & Pol 2nd Div. Only worrying thing is could we lose him on some Wed if his DK team clash with Poole. Already seeing it with Klindt.

Based on Spaniak's new GSA wef 1/7 its 4.77 or on a 1.3 conversion he has 6.2 for a Champ rider. Scrolling through the latest SGB team declaration GSA's effective july, the only rider who I can come up with who has shown some decent recent form is Mason Campton a 24 year Aussie who I got a chance to see at my local track Lakeside recently where he scored 10 from 5 incl one last place. Was easily their best rider by far and better on the night than Klindt & Bewley. Only came back from injury for first time this season I think end of May checking Workingson results and has done fairly well. Can't be any worse than Spaniak on UK form. Nobody else stands out around that mark in Champ. Unless Matt has another young Johnny Foreigner agreed at a GSA below 5 with no UK experience ??? Does he need the expense of an untried young rider even if done kind of ok abroad. Also Matt cannot change Josh G for Charles Wright as Josh starts July on 6.12 and Wright is on 6.19. Additionally if Matt tries a team redeclaration he looks stumped to me as team start July on 42.97 and need to redeclare within 42.5 (I think).

Whilst we all want to see Rye pull through, there could be one major problem with getting their way if they were to allow them to race at home on a Saturday. Some are displaying a what the hell if the odd rider is missing attitude, but let's dig bit deeper on the possible implications, as although we don't attract all the big stars now, this is the possible number of riders each visiting team could lose out of their seven current riders, as no way they will race UK on a Saturday for one reason or another related to POL as well as other continental possible commitments. Belle Vue 5 - Leicester 3 - Rye House 1 KK - Swindon 4 maybe 5 at times - Kings Lynn 2 - Poole 6 yes 6 and maybe even 7 with Worrall getting odd rides out there - Somerset 2/3 - Wolves 2 Not as easy as it sounds initially.

I suppose if you also do away with Prem/Champ double ups then this years potential League winners i.e Lakeside would be well and truly butchered for 2019 considering the likes of Morris/Lawson/Ellis/Zach W and even Newman possibly. I know any restructuring would have some winners and losers but man that would be brutal if they won the Champ this season which a distinct possibility with their big home advantage and decent riders this season. They could be left with Morley and Alfie Bowtell. Certainly any restructuring would not be an easy fix to plan.

Interesting thought based on the new GSA's effective 1st July. Amazingly and despite having no riders over a 7 point GSA the team total sits at amazingly 42.97 which is 0.47 ABOVE the 2018 starting team limit. The 2 most mentioned possible casualties mentioned have been Josh G now on 6.12 and Spaniak now on 4.77. Meaning I assume Matt can only replace with riders of same or lower GSA's OR if he redeclared the team he would have to (correct me if I am wrong here) redeclare to the 42.5 limit ?? meaning his team would have to shed 0.47 meaning if he wanted 2 riders in and he still wouldnt be able to sign a 7 point plus man without having a really weak GSA rider at reserve ?? As said I could be wrong and feel free to let me know if I am. Could this dispel any rumours about poss any released RH riders of worthy note coming in if they are not going to continue. I say IF ???

Maybe SGB should also incl in GSA as that's where most of us go first. Thanks though as it confirmed my fears about the Klindt/Woryna switch. Another telling story is Brady Kurtz. These are of course based on 20 match rolling GSA's and we know when Brady came back from injury last season and allied to the teams overall form his av kind of dropped although UNFORTUNATELY for us he still kept a shade just over 8. Now we can see what his truer av is taking those last matches and this as he has dropped on a rolling GSA to 6.97 a full point plus below his starting GSA and only keeping Worrall out of number one listing by 0.14. The stats don't lie i suppose as other than Woryna who has benefited big time also as a result of riding at reserve for a month with all the extra rides , none of the team are doing so good. Worrall I exclude as he is what he is and is doing well at 6.83 but for me will always be a 6/6.5 man overall and not as good as his twin Steve. Am still not convinced Chris Holder would have made so much difference as like last season his form has been very up and down and not the Chris of old in consistency. Take Worrall out and factor in Chris would the extra possible 2/3 points really have changed the teams position that much. I dont think it would have personally. He is way behind what Jason Doyle is now. His form in both POL and SWE also bear this out. Anyway enough aired on our inconsistent riders. The League table doesnt lie neither do the results. We just have to plough on for respectibility this season.

I thought that according to the SCB rules the cut off for riders GSA's for the following month was the 23rd of the current month. I.E: 23rd June is cut off to be used for riders GSA's effective from 1st July. The last GSA's posted on the SGB site are dated 22nd June with no changes shown or effective date. I mention it as according to Poole's own riders stats Woryna should in effect go into the main team and Klindt drop into reserve wef 1st July. It's now 28th and can't see any GSA's posted effective from 1st July based on these rules. Wouldnt be good news for Poole imo as Klidnt perhaps not as good as Woryna (in fact he isn't) and means Woryna can't take those 6/7 rides from reserve. Someone pls correct me if i am wrong.

I don't agree with 35 points either (see my latest post). However INGOGNITO's post is well thought out and provides plenty of sensible content. I am sure Speedway in one big league could live with a higher than 35 limit if they also introduce say N/L under 21's at 2 points per rider and say up to 2 per team but at least one per side as a minimum. Let the sides themselves then decide if they want to go top heavy on points or maybe strength in depth like say Lakeside have this season. Individual clubs personal finances would dictate what they can and cant afford but let's not kill the entertainment value totally but at the same time make the sport more financially viable for the majority and not the odd minority.

Excellent post fr0m INCOGNITO and maybe he should email it to the BSPA office (address on SGB site) so that at least the idea is logged internally should they be willing to listen to any outside influences not just their own interests. I don't agree with every point in the post but a lot I do and it provides ideas and food for thought. I think £15 per adult under 65 is well worth a fix of Speedway and we have to remember that we do have quite an advanced aged hard core of support who come under concessions for over 65 anyway who would get a (to be agreed) discount. Maybe reduce the programme price a bit so that people can decide if they want one or not. I don't think we should totally alienate clubs who want to sign the odd class rider as that should be reflected in the team points total. Personally I would go above 35 BUT maybe allow up to 2 N/L riders per team each on 2 points av per rider for say those 21 or under. Again just knocking ideas around. For me and as aired I think on the Rye Forum, we need to get a mix of (and taking Lakeside as an example) Good experience (Like Morris and Lawson) - good young riders (Like Ellis) - av middle order riders (Like Newman and Morley)- young up and coming riders like Zach W and young up and coming N/L riders like Bowtell who is improving as a result of more meetings over Champ and N/L. Do NOT allow any club to sign ANY rider until the BSPA agree on a league format - team points limit - guidelines for what young N/L rider will get as an av and how many per team - and importantly on race nights agreed by ALL Clubs that suits them and not the rest of Europe. If that means many of these so called top guys and POLES/Swedes/Danes etc don't want to come back, and even some Aussies if they prefer not to, then so be it. I think you will find that at least some would still prefer to ride here if not all but that is for the teams/promotions of each side to agree based on the BSPA guidelines on team points limits and what each team can afford. Remember too strong at the top means 2 N/L riders at the bottom. We all know how weak reserves can bite you on the backside even if some form of grading is introduced to partly protect some of their rides (which I would also introduce). I think we have to get away from each team being equal. In these days of modern sports. There will always be some teams stronger than others and for example take the team local to me (25 mins drive) at Lakeside. If I had the chance to say see Poole ride there with the odd decent rider like say Woryna or Kurtz or even Holder (Jack or Chris) then I would welcome it as also a chance to partly level out the Lakeside home track advantage. By the way I say the odd decent rider not all 4 of them in the same team necessarily Again we can debate it forever but plenty of sensible ideas already and a good and well thought out post to kick off the discussion.

Sorry what I meant was if the clubs could be allowed to race on the nights of their choosing. I.E: If Poole wanted to keep Wed they can - Swindon if they prefer on a Thur and so on. that way Clubs can pick nights which best suit their circumstances. Irrespective of whether we end up with a combined one League of Prem/Champ with N/L riders allowed to double up or if its still as is next season we need to give Promotors the chance to race on nights which give them the best chance to attract the best crowds. No solution is an easy solution but something major surely has to give if the sport is to survive in UK. Having what I call preferred race nights (even if it means losing some of these so called top stars) and maybe one big league with sensible team building limits and letting teams having the option to have 2 N/L riders per team at say 2 points each is another idea. Matt Ford over the years has always been fairly successful in putting out decent teams (even this years SHOULD have been on paper). I am sure that with his shrewd business head and with local sponsorship he could plan a decent and competitive team to hopefully compete with the best within the points limit at a level that can work for all financially. Just knocking ideas around.

Ok will take that as seriously as the Piotr Pawlicki sightings in Poole earlier this season

He may be an Aussie but fair to say we can count his as a kind of permanent resident of UK during at least the Summer as with most of the Aussies. Can't say that about the Swedes/Poles and some Danes (not all as know the likes of NKI & Klindt live here for family reasons). Take the likes of Sundstrom at Poole - POL Sun - Swe Prem Tue -- Poole Wed or Mon - Swe lower div Thur - Plus he lives in SWE - How much is that travelling costing and we wonder why his form is more down then up for Poole.

One thought was that if we went to go open race night would any of the Champ teams try to come up to Prem. My doubts there are that unless there is some strict regulation put in regarding overseas riders, then I could see the likes of Poole wanting to keep their Wed slot thus seemingly still being attractive to those riding in POL/SWE at top level against those who want to ride on a FRI/SAT/SUN maybe not being able to attract those riders should they wish to do so. Yes they may get bigger crowds but for sure many of those overseas committed raiders wont want to come over. For me its a thankless task trying to put right the wrongs but something surely has to give, because its painfully obvious to those not running the sport there are big financial issues. The guys running it know full well those issues but are kind of powerless to be open about how much money they may/could be losing every week. Rye are probably just the tip of the iceberg.

You only need to look at the current Lakeside team to prove what can be done. They have a decent couple of H/L in Morris and Lawson - good middle order riders such as young Ellis and not so young but not old Newman - Good lower order in young Zach - Good N/L rider with experience in Morley and and a young improving N/L rider who didnt come into the sport so young in Bowtell who is improving with racing. Its the kind of thing I have been advocating taking combining both leagues into one, and then combining the riders from Prem/Champ and N/L. This way we get to see the best of all 3 Worlds. Can't believe that those with a willing to do it can't come up with something to make it work, otherwise i fear for our Sport at top level. Lakeside from a media perspective have also shown how it can be done as get daily twitter reports as well as race clips etc daily to keep all in the loop. They also do plenty for young fans which is also well recorded and shown.

Have to say Skidder that despite all the trials and tribulations we have faced at Poole this season it is so refreshing to see that loyal supporters like you - Steve Shovlar - Starman and others attend week in week out irrespective of what has happened. A big thumbs up to you guys. People like Steve travel up and down the Country knowing in most instances this season we may not get a point. That is what you call loyalty. It's been a frustrating season for all and far from convinced we will improve that much as too many inconsitencies in the team week in and out. Brady brilliant one week - can be poor the next but just use him to highlight the problem throughout. For me he has an excuse as at 21 he is still finding his way but is also expected in only his 3rd season in Prem to be our number one. When will people get a reality check and realise he is not not Darcy Ward who was a one off of whom we will never see the likes of again at Poole. BUT Brady will get there. With what many expect has happened at Rye House, I have to applaud guys like you who not only support the team/club but also get involved in part in sponsoring in some form. It's guys like you who are the real life blood of our sport and while I will not always agree with all the comments you guys put out of the forum, I feel it would be a sadder place without your comments/posts/input. Poole are probably better off than most despite the lack of money for Kevlars (probably more due to the big meeting financial disaster for the 70th Anniv at start of the season and the Sky money having finally ended. I would hope that Poole can continue whatever direction the sport takes in future. I would like to think that loyal sponsors would continue to support the team in whatever form even if somewhat reduced. I know we are not there but the warning signs are out there for all. I think Speedway has much bigger problems than the team issues we have this year. I get very frustrated like all Poole fans but suppose we have to put it into perspective when we look around at whats going on at RH and with the likes of Workington having come out this season and admitted there were financial issues in paying riders at one stage. I said that 3 matches would now define our season. We lost the first 2 with BV at home to come. Lose that and think our game is up for this season. IF RH are out then I fear botton place could become a reality. For me I would be happy for us to salvage some pride by at least winning as many as possible of our home meetings for this season and as for next season ?? Well let's not go there as the sport in its current format may need a massive overhaul and for some downgrading to help it survive for those who still love it. I still believe a combination of one big league - some top or top order riders - middle order/young middle order and also using the top N/L riders (maybe 2 per team ??) in a format is the way forward. We shall see as crazy as it sounds we are still only at the end on June.