STEVEHOLS54

I throw this one open to my Poole Supporter colleagues but to anyone else as we seem to be the most visited Forum topic anyway I put up the idea some time ago that MAYBE to save the sport in UK we should change the format to reduce costs. My idea revolved around one big league. Or 2 regional leagues with say the top 4 from each going into a play off system. Just knocking the ideas around here. Each team to be made up of 5 riders (come back to that) plus 2 N/L riders say 22 or under. I say that age range to give our young riders or 16/17/18 a chance as most over 22 have been around a while in N/L and either have/will never make the top 1/2 flights. Or if a promoter feels he wants to put one in his top 5 so be it. Then it surely would reduce cost by not having 7 top riders. Matches could be programmed where the N/L riders get say 2 N/L rider quality rides only against each other and then 1 from each team to be raced against each other together with a top half rider in the other 2 so they get that valuable experience of riding against proven riders and they don't get hammered each ride thus affecting their confidence as they progress. These riders can also keep their N/L places to help further their development. A min of 3 rides per N/L rider (lets call them the reserves for this exercise). The top 5 to be made up to a points limit which is workable for all or the majority of promoters. If the promotors want to use all foreign riders - or a mix of Uk/foreign or even all UK that is their choice. My reasoning behind this is that some foreign riders will still want to ride UK because either they are resident here. Such as Doyle/NKI/Klindt/Holder Sr etc or they reside mainly in UK during our Speedway season such as all the Aussies. We should not distract those promoters who do want some of the exciting foreign talent IF they feel they can afford the expense or have Sponsors who are willing to finance it. We would have a natural culling on that score anyway due to my next point. Teams should be allowed to ride on race days that suit them and not days dictated by the FIM who ultimately will protect Poland which I fully understand as ultimately whichever way you want to view it, they rule the speedway World in respect of Stadia/Crowds/Finance from local towns/cities (they are so bloody lucky)/Sponsorship and rider quality. IF a UK team chooses say a Saturday to help save the club financially and to get better support, then a rider can decide if he wants to ride UK or pass up and bow to his say Polish Masters who pay the vast majority of his salary. We have to accept that as no way these top guys will pass on Poland. Same when it comes to SWE/DK. Now this may cost us some riders and with it the promoters also save the large expense that comes with some who don't reside here. BUT the time has come for UK to get its house in order or the sport dies. Ultimately the fate of our Sport may be decided anyway by falling crowds - stadium redevelopment into residential/industrial just as it has with things like the sport itself and greyhound racing. Maybe the number of clubs will drop eventually and the force of numbers forces us into one league anyway just to survive. Obviously there are various variations or no doubt ideas on how the above could be developed, but hopefully someone out there and maybe even promoter/s may look in and take some of the thoughts forward as we sure do need to do something more radical to save the sport. Another idea is maybe 6 man teams with a 4 plus 2 or 5 plus 1 idea based on my above thoughts. Again putting out there as food for thought.

Good luck to anyone moving there as not a great location/place. Maybe ever more warehousing as plenty of that in the area being fairly close to ports etc. Have seen plenty of tracks down here close in the 48 years I have been supporting Speedway incl 2 of my favourites in my beloved Hackney Hawks/Kestrels and 2 faithful seasons I attended the eerily under attended White City. At least they won the League one season which we never achieved with the Hawks, although they did win one when they dropped a league as the Kestrels. Oh happier days

Could it have been that nothing could be agreed until the RH situation was finalised ?? Maybe Harris was trying to jump ship too early although I could understand his situation if he wasnt getting paid by Rye. Be interesting to see what they are/were owed and when (if at all) they were ever paid. Doubt we will ever get such info in the short or long term. There is also the question of what kind of GSA both Harris and Nicholl's will get after all the results were cancelled out. None of us know that answer either as on their current actual RH GSA's both will find it difficult to get into any Prem side.

P.S: Interesting choice of words re wedding vows as celebrated our 43rd wedding anniversary today. Jeez that is a lifetime huh ??

LOL Sorry DC I do tend to get really into this forum thing since i first discovered it 2 years ago. But don't knock it mate. You can hopefully tell I love the sport and am really into some of the stats side as well as being an enthusiastic supporter who likes having open debate with others interested. Not all this bloody back biting that goes on. But I enjoy some of the witty posts. One liners anyone can do incl me but I like the debate element. Remember I am a speedway supporter of many years and one of a dying breed as there is less young talent/supporters joining us. Hopefully the sport will still outlive me but you have to cast some doubts when you see whats going on. Was lucky enough to be able to take early retirement 2 years ago after 46 years in the Shipping biz. (My decision to retire early). Suppose I still partly miss the buzz and hustle/bustle of working life which maybe why i throw myself more into the Forum (specially Poole) even though based in Chelmsford- Essex. Anyway better go as rambling again

Which from a financial perspective are more lucrative than Speedway and the also slowly dying Greyhound racing. Not defending these people but it is a realistic fact of the World we now live in. Places like Lakeside can survive as arguably not real building land imo and nothing better to do than use an old run down stadium for bangers/stocks and Speedway. It pays revenue rather than having a derelict out of the way empty site that many wouldnt even know exists if you removed the signs. Swindon seems to me from what I read to now be part of a major housing development with the possibility to also cash in with either more housing ?? or warehousing of which both would reap financial rewards. Speedway and greyhounds won't.

Well it sure does when you are siting pretty on top of the league currently and only having lost 3 points for the home win against Rye. Not much fun for those aiming for a top 4 place who lost more points like Poole losing 4 where it hits them more in their quest. To me this obviously benefits your club and arguably works against your local rivals Poole but in fairness also other teams fighting for a top 4 even before Rye went to the wall.

Some forget that Cook gets away with plenty of rollers compared to the amount he gets caught out. Hans Anderson also gets away but he seems to have subtly mastered it most times and suppose it all comes down to exact timing. Human reaction time I suppose but some are a bit more blatant. I am sure I saw Sargeant doing it a lot on Sky a few years ago and was even mentioned by Pearson/Tatum. Good when it works but don't complain when you get caught out, get a handicap or hit the tapes. In his defence last night he did brilliantly to take Jacobsen off 15 metres and I felt he may well have also caught Sundstrom had he stayed up or at least given him a major scare on the last corner. But then again he may well have got away with a flyer/roller as no tape in front of him From what i have seen of Cook in interviews etc he can be pretty intense and takes team losses personally. I am sure he would also have been frustrated that having ridden brilliantly to get so close to a win off the handicap he then blew it by sliding off into the fence. Fortunately only his pride dented and he will fight to ride another day. Wouldn't have affected the result anyway and as Steve said he got away with a monstor roller in one ride so things have a habit sometimes of evening themselves out.

Well in Jon Cooks decent article today on the Lakeside website he says that there is a BSPA Association meeting next week. They could hold it as an extraordinary meeting in view of the dire circumstances the sport is facing. Even if it is to get an agreement in principal on how they approach the annual BSPA Conference and do they really need to get their backsides into gear a lot earlier than November in order to put in a framework for the sport that stops some either shutting up shop or walking away from the sport. It's surely got to be at the stage now where some major surgery is performed and not pussy footing around so that we lose more clubs and more importantly supporters. if many of these people with decent and successful business interests cannot find a solution then we are on a one way ticket out. Fortunately we still have decent youngsters coming through in the N/L worth watching, but what kind of message does this send to them from a speedway career perspective if they see the sport going to the wall and slowly self destructing itself.

I am sure that any promotion involved in a play off place with one or several or in one case all 7 riders would have blocked any move to a Saturday. Secondly if certain riders had not been paid, who is to say such riders themselves would not have started a process of at least entering into dialogue with other potential club/s. Lets not deem riders as being stupid. Some of the more clued up and potentially well represented legally, would have had an idea RH were possibly in deep brown smelly stuff as riders like Harris and Nicholl's have both faced non payment of wages from overseas clubs before so are pretty clued up as to how things are looking. If I was a rider for sure I would have started tapping in to potential suitor/s on the Q.T to protect my income. It was the end of June when this blew up but no doubt had been possibly building for some time. Still 3 months at least of the season to go. Let's not assume it was a club/s tapping up the riders after the announcement. If one didnt know better one could say ahhh yes its Poole. Have potentially 7 riders (the whole team) who cant ride on a Saturday (thus poss losing points in their quest for a play off) and Matt Ford said around same time as the announcement that he was keeping options open and would not rule out a further change to the team if it didnt perform even if it meant releasing an asset in the short term. But that would just be cynical as none of us know if a club or clubs or even the riders themselves tapped each other up. All we do know is their are financial problems also involving the riders and the owners given the opportunity to resolve them can't and as such their licence is revoked.

i am sure that Nicholl's on good advice from his lawyer would have kept his silence and rightly so if he did take such a course in order to protect both his and the bigger situation. Before some go on the defensive as to putting out rumours which are baseless let's not lose site of the BSPA/SCB announcnement and for me the relevant section. BMR Speedway Ltd, the club owners, and riders made the British Speedway Promoters’ Association aware of debts building and every opportunity was given for these to be reduced and finally settled.However, it has become apparent this is now not possible. Note the ref to RIDERS. That in effect is near enough saying not been paid. This is a Forum and in effect we are free (within reason) to debate/speculate/rumour/exchange views etc. Comments I put forward are partly based on what the statement said. I can fully understand why some (if not all clubs) wont support a race Saturday for the rest of the season view. I am sure the relevant parties i.e SCB/BSPA would have tried to assist where they could as don't forget it took a week for this statement to appear. Speedway is not awash with cash either at club level or within the BSPA. Why throw good money after bad as its obvious to most they were not in a position to survive without major surgery in the form of major financial help and a probable move of race day to the detriment of other teams. If they really are serious about continuing in the future then move into a league which better suits their budget and on a race day which makes them financially viable moving forward. The likes of Lakeside dropped out of the Prem went into the N/L and then into Champ and its worked well so far. Crowds may not be brilliant but hopefully the product is more sustainable with decent promotion/sponsorship without the top overpaid riders. Also on race days which suits them better.

No but even I remember back in the early seventees where BIG money POL didnt rule the speedway roost. Riders like Barry Briggs rode Saturday in UK. These days he would be riding for the big money in POL so sure wouldnt be there on a Saturday.

Jeez - Don't remind me. It was a year where my 2 nearest and loved clubs almost pulled off a unique double. Hackney and Rye House. I got the best of both leagues on a Friday and Sunday. The nearest, my beloved Hawks ever came to winning the top division and I supported them as a 16 year old from 1970. But your point is yes so many clubs - so many matches with not only League but KO Cup and Individual rider championship's/meetings. Have to say was best time for me between 70 and say early eightees.

Perhaps the problems are various fold. One MUST surely be finance and maybe riders have not been paid. For example I know that when Nichols could not get a Champ berth due to the new rules he sought out a decent lawyer who helped fight his case to get the rule changed as it was robbing him of his living (partly). If he had not been paid for some time by BMR then maybe he again got a decent lawyer to go after them. If it affected him then multiply by the other riders. We don't know amounts involved and were there other creditors stacking up unpaid ?? Secondly maybe they did push for part of the agreement requiring Saturday racing which yes may help them but what about other teams fighting for the play offs. if those teams had several riders commited to abroad at weekends, and in the case of say Poole all 7, then can you not understand why they would not be happy to face trips to Rye who would only have probably be missing KK or Somerset missing at least Doyle & Holder Jr and also the other teams who would be relying probably mainly on Champ quality guests and some of them already commited abroad at weekends or for grass/long track. Yes all want a club to survive but not if its going to cost them maybe a possible play off place. Also did i read somewhere that a portion of the away clubs wages are paid for by the home side in Prem. If they are in effect bust can you see clubs who are already bleeding money (i.e all of them) going to be willing to go to RH with in effect no revenue forthcoming ?? No for me the right thing was done. Close it up and if they can rise again maybe in a lower league and they can finance it, plus on a race night that works for them and the others than fair enough.

Perhaps Lemon was reflecting on a BAD day all round for BV. Lost 6 points wiped as a result of losing the wins against RH and maybe thought he would beat Poole as well after the inconsistencies of this season. That is in effect 9 points down the swannie in less than 24 hours. Am pleased a ref manned up to Cook an his constant jump starting. have witnessed it also in the GP where he has tried it on. Think he gets away with it quite a bit probably over here so can't complain if he finally gets pulled for trying it a few times too often. Don't get me wrong as he is a totally commited BV rider and supporter and you can see it hurts him big time when they have lost out in finals and play offs. Nothing wrong with such commitment but ultimately all riders have to follow as much as possible the standing start and not constantly rolling or jump starting. It takes special talent to get away with rolling. Just ask Hans Anderson who has mastered it over the years but within the rules . They should be ok for the play offs but doubt they will finish top thus missing out on semi choice ??. The 9 points missed wont help that cause.

No just airing an off the cuff comment made and to a degree I see his point. BUT something has to be done to save the sport. We can't keep going down this slippery slope. Maybe some of the better and successful run clubs in Champ come up to a revamped/redesigned Prem where it is made attractive for all ?? As said I don't have all the answers but we can't afford to lose the likes of Poole or any clubs for that matter. If a well run club like Poole is maybe considering its position what does that say for the rest of the teams who don't enjoy the financial income form Sponsorship that maybe Poole do. There are enough successful business heads within the BSPA but they have to find common ground on a way forward in a format all can ultimately live with. Its either that or the sport is doomed in its current format. If it also means more flexibility on race nights even if it does mean some of the top riders pass on UK then so be it but for sure something has to be done.

Any snippets or rumours knocking around last night on what might happen with Nichols or Harris ?? Nobody seemed to know up to last night if they would keep their last RH GSA or with their results cancelled, would they get a Champ 1.3 downward conv which certainly makes Nichols more attractive than Harris who would still be on his similar Prem GSA. I mention it as the lower they are the more attractive they become. Both ride Poole well and both could (or already are) be considered for Poole if Matt does decide to replace a rider or redeclare ??. Not an easy one after last night as Josh picked up but as we know Poole have been hellishly inconsistent this season and would not get carried away as we saw after KL how things could swing back again downwards.

I think Matt will decide depending upon what is agreed at the BSPA in view of what is obviously happening in British Speedway currently. I think most if not all agree that the sport in its current format is on a very slippery downward slope. I exchanged a few words with an off guard John Cook at a recent Lakeside meeting in which i said that I thought one big league was the way forward. He commented that his fear was that the big clubs like Poole and Wolves with their finance and large rider asset base would snap up all the available top talent making it virtually impossible for others to compete. We all know Matt is one of if not the top owner/promoters of recent times and it could maybe be a veiled warning to others in the sport. I.E: Speedway gets its house in order and maybe follows his vision for the sport or he and Poole will walk away from it. Now, many may not like his idea of how it should be run, but ultimately he has run a successful Club for the years he has been involved so difficult to argue with that. Consider what a so called Prem would look like without say a Poole and maybe other casualties. Basically it won't be. Speedway for sure needs to take some hard/difficult decisions, but at the same time just as in football, all cannot be equal as life doesn't work that way. There will always be the have's and the have nots. You need the Manchester City's/Utd/Liverpool/Arsenals as much as you need the smaller clubs. If a top club visits a smaller club its always a big draw when the better players come to town. Just like in Speedway POL/SWE don't have team make up points totals in their Prem/first or second divisions. They work on the fill with what you want and just make sure you have 2 Pol juniors or Swe nationals in your team. I would love to see bigger/better supported and well run clubs visit smaller clubs. I don't profess to have the answer on how you sort it, but sort it has to be done, as when the likes of Matt Ford issue warning (veiled or otherwise) that he will consider both his decision and Poole Speedways decision at the end of the season, he does not choose such comments lightly. Ultimately even he must be suffering financially after what has been a nightmare season from the start following the loss of the 70th Anniv meeting but not the expense of the big celebration, followed by many rain offs - track issues - non performing riders - Holder situation etc. Now we hear about RH closing. BSPA cancelling most Champ teams Friday meetings due to problematical rider availability. Good article from Jon Cook on Lakeside website today which I think is fair and open flwg cancellation of the Glasgow meeting. Understand a BSPA Association meeting next week. Let's hope all the promotors/owners turn up as the situation with the sport is serious and needs addressing sooner rather than later in Nov.

Another option is some of the better Champ sides step into a new set up with whats left of the Prem into a new format which allows teams to ride on nights of their choice suited best for the crowds, and if to the detrement of signing certain overseas so called stars then so be it. Either that or one big league but something has to be done to make the sport more financially viable to at least cover costs even if not profit. Thinks for certain have to change or we may not have a sport to discuss this time next year. Well not in its current format.

Bearing in mind its been a week now. Would not surprise me if the GSA discussion and new teams have already been discussed with the SCB and between riders and interested clubs. Matt Ford already made some comments in the Echo in last 24 hours as not discounting other changes maybe if it also involved current assets in the team (would seem to me to be poss aimed at Josh G ??). Would not surprise me one bit if he has already got the ok in respect of both riders GSA's and perhaps an agreement in principal for at least one of them ?? Could be wrong of course but the press release in the Echo quickly followed by the BSPA release indicates this outcome was on the cards for maybe a while despite what has said about efforts were made to resolve it.

I agree BUT.... if both Harris and Scott both now got a Champ av calculation and all Prem scores etc are canned for Rye then it indeed makes it interesting for a few teams out there and especially Poole. Nichols new GSA on a conv would be 6.07 (based on the GSA sheet of 26.6 on the 2018 team declarations which is where SGB now seem to post them),and Harris would be 6.25. Both would be options for Poole if they did drop Josh G and both ride Poole well. My preference would be for Nichols. Harris would fit on basis of a team declaration not as a straight replacement as just too high. I can't see based on this years current GSA wef 1/7 or on the starting GSA that either would get a team spot personally elsewhere. They are both a bit too high to replace others imo. Wonder if any discussions will be going on tonight as Scott is guesting for BV. He also lives South Coast now so Poole arguably more convenient than RH was. All depends on what they will get as new GSA's wef 1st July. We shall see but whatever outcome its a sad day.

By the way the latest ones are now posted on Premiership declarations for 2018. For some reason SGB not putting latest one on the GSA section. There have been 2 posted on 26/6 and 29/6.

Your right. Harris is on 6.86 wef 1/7 and Bellego is on 6.10. They can't even redeclare the team as the total sits on 43.04 above what the 42.50 team limit is. Think only Poole could get him if they drop Josh G or Sundstrom as although Harris higher they could redeclare their team as they are currently 0.75 below the 42.50 limit. Having said that unfair to come accross like a vulture picking on the bones of the recently deceased

Tend to agree. Something which perhaps engages with some or all of the Champ clubs in a new format which is not financially punishing.

So its announced Rye have closed down. On SGB site. This means we lose 4 points from our 2 RH matches but some lose 6. We are certainly bottom but the revised SGB League table not amended yet as the news is just off the press. Wonder how the new table will look. Sad day for all Speedway supporters.