Mad Max

I agree totally, however as I have said previously the big issue is two reserves who are more likely to score 1 between them than any other score. To get someone like Liam Carr in we would have to take "lesser" riders elsewhere - to me Tungate is one rider who will be on a falsely low average - Graversen is an option to fit, but you could look at Grondal (4.39), Morley (3.85), maybe Adam Ellis but his average is be advised - it is all hypothetical until Premier averages and conversion rate is revealed!

Another one who has been out in the sun too long !!

So the slide continues - at least at this rate averages will be dropping. Everyone is saying it would have been different if stevie had ridden, we would have won etc etc. Simple fact is he wasn't and we lost, which just highlights the frailities of the side. Any time we are missing a rider and use r/r we have serious problems, at home we can just about get away with it, depending on how many of opposition can ride our track, but away - oh dear! Greenwood is competent and obviously has more confidence than Coles showed, but he isn't the answer and frankly was lucky he scored the points he did. Only possible hope is the issuing of the Premier averages imminently - it is still all a mystery as to what they will get converted to for Championship, but it may be possible to replace Lindgren., Morris & Hopwood with Tungate, Graversen and Carr. Don't get too excited I say possible it's a guess on what averages will be! Whilst everyone will probably complain at Graversen, he might be best fit to get a strong heatleader to back up our over worked 1&2 and allow a reserve who woul be competitive!.

Interesting analysis of where it went wrong for the panthers, it appears three main issues - one rider had mechanical issues which took a while to sort out - ok it can happen to anyone, but it does amaze me that a rider finishes one meeting with bike ok, then at start of next meeting it isn't ok - what has happened in between? - I can only assume rider/mechanic tampers/messes about with something which causes problem! some riders had the wrong bike set-up - again understandable when you are visiting a track you haven't been to for a while - Oh hold on I forgot Panthers were at home, guess it was the unusual hot weather, but it still would be the same for everyone so level playing field! and finally the real killer a number of riders weren't on it due to having the "wrong mindset" Sorry totally unacceptable, if I were a panthers fan who had just watch team lose at home and heard that I would be expecting backsides kicked big time! We all pay our money and whilst mechanical issues happen or riders can mess about and get set ups wrong, you should always expect 100% effort and riders to be pulling together for the team. I applaud them for their honesty, but what is going on behind the scenes??? Anyway look on the bright side, at least you will have a top quality number 1 on Friday !

I respect your opinion, but who exactly do you think Phillips would have beaten, apart from possibly Bacon - and imo that is doubtful? If he had risen above 2 point average he would have had to ride at no. 6 and therefore not had the easier rides against opposition's number 7, and most teams now have a decent first reserve (some have two decent reserves), we however have not even a moderate reserve!

So now the morning after the night before. Apologies to Redcar, should have praised them last night for a good solid team performance and job well done - you can only beat what's put in front of you and having accepted lambert and Worrall would be tough to beat they set about making sure they didn't finish behind any of the others and as the scoreline shows did the job well! Taking the abject performance of 5 riders and a team manager away it wasn't a bad meeting - updates show a lot of races won "ftg" but in fairness 1st bends were usually close and the racing good. You are never going to get loads of passing when one side (L&W excepted) are so outclassed. Only other minor gripe was getting wet - what was idea to hold interval just as shower started? that's a Havelock trick to get people in the bar! Did wonder before rerun of heat 10 when rain started if there would be a ploy to get match called off and test the new precedent of awarding matches

I wouldn't get too excited about Ulrich's apparent upturn in form based on last night - you need to consider what tripe he was beating!! granted he looked on the pace and gave Lambert & Worrall a race for 50m, but never looked like beating them. However his job was to beat all the others in the team and he did that (with exception of last heat - when realistically it didn't matter at all). Handy rider to guest for an original NL number 7 rider - just shows how well perks has gone and the fall off in Ulrich's scoring - to date

How does he make out our away form is patchy ?? the only points we have taken away from home was when we used a ringer in the reserve berth - surely that fact in itself highlights why we are so crap away from Brough park Lambert and Worrall will soon need sick notes for bad backs carrying the rest of this team !!

He is having a serious laugh and playing us all for mugs

Well Robert and Steve got a pile of points, reserves got exactly what they deserved, and the rest pathetic! Can't wait to hear moaning George's excuses - lets see Rose wasn't at fault when he fell unlucky with engine problems for the skipper Ostergaard should never have been allowed to replace Redcar's ex no. 7 track was patchy (ie too wet and too dry) rain spoiled the comeback When it should be I messed up not using tactical ride at first opportunity I messed up using two NL reserves to make top 5 stronger I messed up having 3 riders in top 5 who aren't good enough away from home Lets see what we get!!!

Looks like a lovely evening ahead (weather wise) That should mean track isn't too wet for Robert, but hopefully not too dry for the rest of the team Fancy Robert and Stevie to get a pile of points and the rest to get enough to secure a win against the Bears select team

I wouldn't be critical of Berwick for helping out another club, but I would criticise them for a) not knowing if their riders were available and b ) then saying they didn't want to and they were forced/persuaded by BSPA, your senior official should have told BSPA to "go away" if Berwick couldn't put out a team which matched their usual strength then don't agree to the match - simples!

You're drooling again You would only have 1.61 points left if you ditched Lambert & a reserve and brought Kus in, so obviously can't do that. Your options in that case would be up to 9.25 points, so for example Adam Roynon and Coty Garcia (if/when redcar release) But realistically Lambert and Greenwood or Roynan and Garcia - no brainer to me

Good - we are all happy then

OK - in that case your misguided logic is to use someone's post and assume they actually understand the averages and know what they are talking about and no pobly about it, he is on a higher average

I guess the misguided logic was for being injured - if riders start getting reductions for each injury that would make averages interesting and even more unworkable/open to abuse!

He would also be ahead of an opponent, unless he was in third, but conceding 1-5s just to boost his average is very short sighted tactic and not one many fans would like

If he is going well enough to be ahead of Worrall, or Rose, or Lindgren then I would suggest he is worthy of a place in the team

You are making the same wrong assumption vast majority do - by dropping Lindgren and a 2.00 reserve we wouldn't have 9.24 to use on two riders (ie LL's 7.24 plus 2.00) because we would have to then fall below the 40 point limit, so effectively we would have 7.38 So you could get Wallner and Carr say - is that really the improvement we want? At home you expect to win, it's away that you need riders who average highly (or not low), so actually Lindgren is one of the key riders to keep in the team , because of the low difference in averages. However as most fans view their opinions based on the home matches, these riders are the ones who often get the most criticism. If you then argue that he has some shockers away from home, then to keep a decent average it shows he also has some top class performances. Lindgren isn't the problem, the make-up with two very poor reserves is the issue and unfortunately we are stuck with it!

Money is tight after paying off Hansen and getting Harris - need to go for the cheaper option - ie less points money to pay out

Never have a better chance to win at Redcar, Bears won't know what's hit them with our new reserve pairing

I guess you are using Rathbone's calculator to replace a 2.00 rider with a 3.00 rider ? Out of the three the only one allowed is Robbo, so keep on drooling, sorry dreaming!!

I'm obviously not reading and understanding the issued averages correctly, this is the first appearance of Greaves in Ipswich's declared team  http://speedwaygb.co/files/downloads/c17_issue_9.pdf and this clearly has updated averages for King, Schlein and Mountain, so my logic says it is a mixture?

The first time Greaves was declared in official averages 3 Ippo riders had their new averages, 3 didn't - sedgmen just signed , Newman just back from injury and Heeps not enough matches - if Heeps had his "proper" average Greaves wouldn't have fitted. Not trying to make a big issue out of this and apologies for using Peterborough thread, but that's how I see it!

Didn't Ipswich also take advantage of Heeps old average to get Greaves in ? Not quite on same scale as others, but same principle.