BurntFaceMan

Guess he's just naturally unluchy.

It doesn't become a farce at all... Wolverhampton were given the same luxury but didn't require it! I can't help but disagree with that statement. If the rules allow for something, then it's not morally wrong. Some people seem to feel that the rules include some sort of "unwritten rule". But that's not the case. If that was the case then they'd be written rules! Rules should be just as much part of the game as the sport itself. You shouldn't look at the rules as a list of things you can't do, you should look at the rules as an opportunity to discover what can be done.

Starry... come on man?!

If I were Matt Ford my case would state: Heat leader averages are now lower than when the 8pt "rule" was first used. Being a GP rider doesn't make you automatically good on British tracks. Plenty of successful international riders have came to Britain and struggled to beat some very average EL riders. Antonio has been out of British league racing for 10 years. The current world champion is on a 7.03 average. He's joining the league at a time where he will only be able to face the top 2 teams, whom have all have a full season worth of practice and track knowledge behind them. I think that's a pretty fair case for a 7pt average. Oh, and what did Antonio score last night?

He won't go anywhere. Many of the best riders in the world are Aussies. Aussies want to live in England because it's close to Poland / Sweden / Denmark, but everyone talks English, enjoys similar food, drink, etc. Middleditch let's them come and go at his place and takes care of them all year round. Pretty perfect recipe really. The Aussie's all want to come and ride for Poole, the team spirit here is excellent and the upcoming stars are already being pushed Poole's way by their chums at Poole!

Pretty sure that Kyle is paid to stay at reserve level all year round... then they let him race again come the play offs!

Hey guys, Hope you don't mind me intruding, but I've actually put together a little thread for you lot to argue in! http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=82792 It's made specifically for Chris4Gillian, SteveShovlar and Gavan, should he return. Don't get me wrong though, anybody is welcome to join in! We can all be nasty to each other, massage each others egos, split hairs amongst eachother... it's a free for all. Thing is it's getting really annoying having to flick through 20 pages of sh1te to find the 6 decent pages and most of us really just want to chat about speedway... so if you wouldn't mind transferring the argument over there?

Cracker of a meeting! A 12 point lead should feel rather comfy, but can't help but feel the momentum will go just as much the Wolves way at home as it has for us! I can't imagine Lindback firing at Wolverhampton considering how out of depth he seemed at Poole tonight with his return to British tracks. His top level racing experience helped clinch him some important points, but I don't think he will be able to match the scoring power of Woffinden who I feel will much more easily slip into the groove at the familiar Monmore Green.

Childish...

Well we'll have Holder in 13 and 15 so I've got faith he'll deliver the goods.

To be fair it's completely unpredictable. The Poole team have been far too erratic to call either way, and Antonio is completely untested. It could as easily be a 15pt Poole win as it could be a 15pt loss. Poole are notoriously slow starters. A few heat advantages from Wolves to kick the night off and then 3-3's from there onwards, job done.

The biggest farce of all is that the world champion will only come across a heat leader twice Good luck to both sides tonight. My gut instinct is that the Wolves will walk this.

UKTV on Kodi should have coverage

I'd imagine Poole will be carrying a lot of the weight of Bjarne and Kyle unfortunately!

Heat leader averages are now lower than when the 8pt "rule" was first used. Being a GP rider doesn't make you automatically good on British tracks. Plenty of successful international riders have came to Britain and struggled to beat some very average EL riders. Antonio has been out of British league racing for 10 years and his last stint was hardly successful. The current world champion is on a 7.03 average. He's joining the league at a time where he will only be able to face the top 2 teams, whom have all have a full season worth of practice and track knowledge behind them. In my opinion, with all that taken into account, 7pts is a very fair assessment, and I certainly don't think it's an advantage over having Hans back in the team (certainly not one worth singing about!). 8pts would have been too high. However, it's the fact that we have been given no information as to who made this assessment and why that makes it smell fishy.

Hmm it's a tricky one. The Polish league is so much stronger than the Elite League. It's almost the difference between EL and NL!

To be honest, if the only way we can tempt the big boys to ride in Britain is to sign them just for the play offs, then every team should be allowed to do it! Would make for much more exciting play offs! It's time to stop pretending the EL is among the worlds best... we'd be lucky to have the top riders on our shores, if only for the play offs. Poole only have a 7 day window to make a signing. If Hans is unable to confirm when he will be able to ride again then Poole have no choice but to sign a new rider. A farce it is not. I get why everyone is annoyed. Surprise surprise, the p1ss take Pirates have pulled another fast one. But really when you dig a little deeper... Poole did not want this. We didn't want our captain to get injured. It's not just Poole he isn't riding for, he pulled out of the SEC too. When you do the maths Antonio is actually a good fit. I don't feel any malice towards the Wolves, who arguably got Tai on a bargain average (based on current form). That's just the name of the game. If you don't like it, then the rules need to be changed. Unfortunately there will always be a team that makes a better fist of it than others, and Matt is 100% on the ball when it comes to the loopholes!

There is no need for all these crazy complicated assessment methods people are suggesting. Just work out the average CMA of the top 8 riders in the previous Elite League season and agree that any GP rider joining the league starts on that average.

I didn't argue Tai had a false average. Tai is fair game in my opinion.

As I already stated earlier, the maths do suggest that 8 is not the correct average to bring a GP rider in on, and 7 is actually the more correct figure. What we need is transparency from the BSPA to confirm or deny this.

That's an interesting theory, I'll see if I can give you a hand... We'll need all hands on deck to figure this one out... Some more evidence would be handy... To be fair, I don't think I could handle this kind of investigation... I'll have to leave it in your capable hands...

Exactly, so just like I said, it's incorrect for him to be assessed as either 7pts or 8pts. Also, if you go further and take the top 8 2012 averages into account: Darcy Ward - 9.76 Chris Holder - 9.67 Niels Kristian Iversen - 8.84 Tai Woffinden - 8.80 Fredrik Lindgren - 8.68 Peter Karlsson - 8.61 Kryzystof Kasprzak - 8.39 Hans Andersen - 8.18 You get an average of 8.86, which suggests a GP rider should be assessed at 0.86 pts less than a top 8 Elite League rider. If you were to apply that rule to the 2016 Elite League top 8 it would suggest a GP rider should now be assessed at 7.4 pts. Basically, it is clear that with our current league format 8 pts is too high to assess a GP rider as, however 7 is too low. But based on the averages from 2012 and 2013 (just before we introduced the FTR system) a GP rider coming into the league (in it's current state) should receive assessed average closer to 7 pts than 8 pts. So if you want to go with a nice round number, 7 pts is statistically a more appropriate assessed average than 8pts in the current format.

I'm pretty sure this is entirely to do with the change in heat formats. If you take the top 8 riders from 2013: Tai Woffinden - 9.20 Niels Kristian Iversen - 9.12 Darcy Ward - 9.07 Fredrik Lindgren- 8.94 Matej Zagar - 8.64 Kenneth Bjerre - 8.45 Hans Andersen - 8.34 Bjarne Pedersen - 8.12 You get an average of 8.74. If you take the top 8 riders from 2016: Jason Doyle - 9.81 Niels Kristian Iversen - 8.99 Andreas Jonsson - 8.78 Chris Holder - 8.00 Krzystof Kasprzak - 7.91 Matej Zagar - 7.55 Fredrik Lindgren - 7.54 Sam Masters - 7.46 You get an average of 8.26. So if in 2013 the average of the top 8 riders was 8.74 and a GP rider was assessed at 8.00, that suggested that a GP rider was assessed to be approximately 0.74pts off of the top 8 average. If you apply that same formula to 2016 averages it suggests that a GP rider should be assessed at approximately 7.52pts. So it's clear that based on a like for like approach, a GP rider should be assessed nearer to 7.5pts than the old 8pts, which makes a 7pt assessed average just as reasonable as a 8pt assessed average, as in reality it should be in the middle of 7 and 8. Basically, a 7pt assessed average is just as fair as an 8pt assessed average. Neither of them are correct.

To be fair, with the old heat format heat leaders had 8-10pt averages, so it made sense that a GP rider would come in on 8pts. Now with the new format heat leaders have 7-9pt averages, so it makes complete sense that a GP rider would come in on 7pts. The issue is that nobody from the BSPA is communicating the reasoning to the fans, and that's why people are assuming the worst.

Everyone is entitled to the same riders on the same averages... but they only find out after Poole has signed them The fact is speedway in this country is NOT transparent. The only way you'll get a transparent future in British speedway is if everybody stops giving them their money every week. If you keep turning up, keep paying at turnstile, then you'll keep getting the status quo.