Sidney the robin

You had the pleasure of seeing Tommy defeat Ashby in the helmet at Cradley in 1976 Salty.!!!

Those videos were very moving and Penhall for me was great for the game and he often showed that he cared for others.He had also suffered heartache in his life so Speedway is very secondary in the scheme of thing's.Maybe if Bruce had his time again he would of ended his career differently but it was his life so he did which he felt was best for him.God the years have gone so fast since Kelly passed great rider and person.RIP.

You need to read the posts properly first Chunky don't twist thing's around .My point was that he was 24 years old already World class and approaching his best and peak years. IF he had lived until 1982/84 he would of been a major force is that easy anough for you to grasp.!!!!!!

The POINT you misunderstood and never quite grasped was from 1976 until 82 he would of matured as a rider.He was only 24 and in 1976 he had really gone up a level or to he was a top 16 rider in the world already.Ask Briggs,Michanek, Mauger, Collins,Knutsson,Olsen they all said he would of been at the top for along time.

Not convinced by you Chunky at all , by 1982 Mauger,Olsen, Michanek, Collins there best days had gone.They would of been replaced and at that time Jansson ( if given the chance) would of been in a group of riders in the mix.To say his Pairs wins meant nothing is madness i will ask you one more time up until his untimely death are you telling me he was not WORLD CLASS and had not shown that class.??

Iris for Chunky to make those comments he could not of seen Tommy ride that much in 75/76 .

Well your post is spot on and yes nobody is certain but i am certain from about 76/84 he would of been a force.What Chunky says is complete nonsense by 1976 he was world class also remember from 1970/76 all of those years were not complete years either( swedes ban, National service)

Really Chunky are you for real !!!! he punched well above his weight at the top level up until 75/76.You would have to be a complete muppet to not consider that World Pairs!!!! he also won two nice individuals events in 75/ 76..Also my point was i was talking about when he died in 76 he was beginning to really get there.If he had not died he would of been approaching his prime with the riders that was mentioned. (I.e.) Penhall, Sigalos, Lee, Olsen, Nielsen, Gundersen.Chunky you need to think about what you are saying before trying to score points over certain people.Engage your brain are you saying up until when he died May 1976 Tommy had not shown anything at the very top level????

I can never understand why people never mention Jansson ( only 24) he would of been at his peak at that time against those guys you mentioned.

No exaggeration Steve to say that Hans could of won 6/8 World titles as the two formats are like chalk and cheese.I also think Erik would of been good in that format as well and depending on the points scoring system would still of won titles.Penhall is the guy who COULD of changed history as he would of been very good in a series.A real shame when you look back that speedway was robbed of Jansson 1976( only 24). Penhall, Lee, Carter for different reasons all within ten years.

What a terrific record Nielsen had, Ivan though out of the six years he had a 11 plus average five times amazing really.Also one of those years he had his average reduced from 11.74 ( an exclusion maybe?).Also your point waiheke1 about the nominated race is so relevant, i wonder how many times Ivan had an easy heat 8 win with the old six point rule.Out of those stats given i was unsure what Briggs best years were? did he win his first two titles when really he was not always on top of his game his best stat years only yielded him one title.

That comfort zone of knowing you only have to get to a semi and can still win the meeting for me makes it easier now though.Do i think the series as being particularly strong now yes it is strong but there are a few riders there on the way down and at the moment are not being replaced by fresh blood.

I was looking through FOUR of the greatest riders of all time stats Steve in which i believe were there peak years ( could be wrong years??? probably are Norbold/Bobbath /BL65 or Ove should put us right ). and it is really interesting. FUNDIN (1956/61 ). - 1956- 10.34. 1957- 10.38. 1958- 11.60. 1959- 11.00 1960- 11.56. 1961-11.51. NIELSEN ( 1984/1989). 1984- 10.76. 1985- 11.35. 1986- 11.57. 1987- 11.38. 1988- 11.03. 1989- 10.91. MAUGER (1969/74.) 1969- 11.38. 1970- 11.11. 1971- 11.41. 1972- 11.37. 1973- 11.30. 1974- 10.88. BRIGGS ( 1965/70). 1965- 10.91. 1966- 11.12. 1967- 11.05. 1968- 10.87. 1969- 11.12. 1970- 10.53.

Did Bryan have anything to do with Ivan's 11.74 average being lowered Steve.? correct me if i am wrong are Hans,Ivan, Vic Duggan recognised as having the alltime top 3 averages.?? Was looking through some of Nielsen's stats when he often had a late 10s or 11 plus average he sometimes averaged more away from home.

Yes BOBBATH Bryan Seery left his own legacy he was a terrific read in the speedway star i loved his input.He certainly had a knack with stats and was very good at it he passed away in 2017 aged 81 .

I enjoyed your post Bobbath you have a great memory, Jack Biggs should he have been World Champ when Youngy won it?? did the nerves get to Jack we will never know eh.!!

I could never quite understand that Steve, he had nothing to fear he was so good at White City and Swindon.I suppose Eastie being closer to home and being a lovely area held some bearing on his decision he also was superb around Arlington.

So did Finn Thomsen, Malcolm Simmons Grachan, like Kennett there glory days had long gone 1979-81 Kennett could of been a massive asset to the Robins.

The riders knew then that the BL was there bread/Butter i actually remember Briggs being stopped riding in the 1973 Silver plume meeting after getting an invitation.Woffinden i have nothing but admiration for him on what he has achieved in speedway and him actually dropping the UK does not bother me it is his choice his livelihood.I just feel he could of done certain things differently don't understand his stance on the British title the chance of giving a bit back his choice of course.

You are totally right but to get to the top in speedway then you had to ride in England.Also we all know Mauger, Briggs, Ole, PC, Lee (etc) over the years turned down endless chances of making more money on lucrative continental engagements.

Missing 1981 was that more because of the Injury he sustained at Cradley Heath??? he never totally recovered from that.And you would have to say he always proudly put on that England race jacket on over the years and riding internationally then usually cost you money to do so.

His stance with England really p......d me off who is he to dictate and preach how our Country progresses.He could not be bothered to ride in British Finals( often commentated though!!!) also how many of those Ben fund meetings over the years could he be assed to ride in.? Was never a mate of Rossiter ever but Woffinden made his position with England unteniable for me Woffinden is what he is all out for HIMSELF alone.

Totally falcace for me Barty and Ward were better riders than Woffinden both riders in his era.One of those was never given the chance to prove it.

He was very very lucky to even get another shot at the big time without really earning it.He forgets that big time.Saying all of that i have to admire him he got fitter more professional moved up a few levels better than Craven, Collins,Lee a big NO for me.

I don't think so NW your memory seems pretty spot on to me .