steve roberts

I'd be interested in the views of other contributors regarding this topic? I followed the sport for over thirty years and there was always a certain amount of manipulation regarding the rulebook and/or team strengths (averages) and points being 'bought' and 'favours' asked and given (Malcolm Simmons' and John Berry's most excellent books covers this in some detail) but is it any worse now than it was back in the sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties when speedway, generally, enjoyed better attendances and, certainly in the seventies, better media coverage? Has the sport become more discredited within the last ten years or so therefore (I stopped attending in 2003)? Have fans become less gullible and, frankly, suspicious of the sport and the people who administer it? As my initial post highlighted other sports (not just cycling and athletics) down the decades have been shown up as being not totally 'squeaky clean' (football, for example, many of us have read of financial 'irregularities' that have led to some clubs having points deducted) but still demand massive coverage by the mass media and interest amongst the general public.

Trying to think back to the days when I was a youngster (a long, long time ago!) the thing that grabbed my attention was seeing riders broadsiding (not the usual procedure on a motor bike) and throwing up a combination of dirt and dust...and of course the smell of castrol 'R' Seeing four riders jostling for position at the first bend throwing their back wheels out was, for me, a truly spectacular experience!

Not quite sure whether I agree with this assumption or not? There was obviously the Sunday People article back in the eighties (which personally I felt was over played) but overall I think that the sport is no worse than others that get prime time coverage. Two that instantly come to mind are cycling and athletics.

I guess it beats pimples and grunts!

Simon Cross could be questionable on occasions! Remember the occasion at Dudley Wood, back in 1985, when he didn't turn left entering the first bend and just drifted wide taking Simon Wigg with him. 'Wiggy' had to pull up otherwise he would have hit the fence. 'Wiggy' was not a happy bunny when interviewed (the match was televised by ATV) after the race! Cross did the same thing to Andy Grahame in the same meeting! First saw Simon Cross in 1982 when he made his debut riding for Oxford. He was obviously talented but could be erratic on occasions. Didn't last long at Cowley after an altercation with Ashley Pullen.

I have a copy of the highlights of the 1984 British Final on DVD. I obtained a copy from fellow poster 'Moxey63' who maybe able to help you out?

A very good post! I was never a Carter fan, I have to admit, but he obviously had a massive talent...trouble was that injuries at crucial moments during his career didn't help him achieve the ultimate goal. Would he have become World Champion if those awful events hadn't taken place? I don't know but, personally, I felt that his best opportunity was in Los Angeles and if only he hadn't allowed his over bearing father to dictate events in the pits things may well have been different. Would he have made a good World Champion? Can't answer that.

I recall seeing Sam at Poole in 1984 when, having worked his way thru' from last to second, he fell off on his own accord.

In a previous life I used to clean the toilets of the local Community Centre and, yes, I can vouch for that! One day I'm going to write a thesis on Public Toilets and usage of same!!

Thank heavens for small mercies!!

Carl 'The Spear' Askew was a tough uncompromising competitor. Robert Holllingsworth had less than complimentary things to say about him in an interview some years ago!

Just reading the Dave Morton book (excellent read) and he comments on the occasion that Ivan Mauger ran a training school at Chesterton (later re-named Stoke) where riders of all abilities took part. Ivan placed cones strategically on the track to test the riders skills only for Jack Millen to plough thru' them rather than ride around them! Can imagine the 'conversation' between Ivan and 'Crazy' Jack after that particular episode! Jack was re-signed by Crewe after a couple of years spent at Sunderland in the hope that he would attract fans back to Earle Street with his mad cap antics!

I understand the point of the thread as my far earlier comment initiated to which Rob replied. I don't know the answers as many of us don't unfortunately. It's a complex issue and I'll leave it to others in a better position than myself to put forward suggestions that may improve the present scenario.

Vince, I think it was my clumsy analogy! What I was trying to imply with my obscure observation was that my brother would frequent pubs that specialised in real ale. He wasn't interested in the ambience of the surroundings but in the product...real ale. With respect I wasn't implying that all was rosy within the pub industry as I am aware of the difficulties that particular industry is experiencing (although there are signs, in my region especially, that some people are re-inventing the pub experience and opening small concerns without the need of SKY etc and apparently they are proving quite popular) My observation (as my previous post implied) was that speedway needs to get the product right so as to attract those missing fans. Window dressing is all well and good but the product needs to be attractive to entice people to part with their money. Football stadia have improved considerably over the years due to Government intervention and grants but unfortunately speedway and/or greyhound stadiums were left behind. It's a sad fact that many speedway venues fall below acceptable modern standards but there's no getting around that fact due to lack of investment and many promoters not owning the stadiums. I can only draw on my experience working within the tourism industry that the general public expect more for their money to what was once the conceived view some ten to twenty years ago. What is important is to carry out the relevant market research and come up with a plan so as to hopefully entice people to an attraction whether it a museum, gallery, theme park, sporting event etc etc How speedway can sell itself is well beyond my remit as I am out of touch with the sport on a day to day basis so I'll leave that to others to decide the best formula.

Yes agreed...it is rather simplistic but the point being that he has visited some rather dubious establishments but that hasn't put him off...and he spends more in an evening than it would cost to attend a speedway meeting. Another parallel, if you like, is visiting a rather plush cinema with ultra modern seating, with all the latest sound equipment and fast food going but if the film is crap...? I've been to some real 'flea pits' in my time but was prepared to compromise because the film (not main stream) showing was worth the inconvenience. As I've tried to demonstrate with my clumsy examples "If the product isn't right" there's less likelihood people going which appears to be the case with speedway?

I know that it's a rather simplistic parallel but my brother is a member of CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) and he often says that he has frequented some rather grotty establishments over the years where there's no SKY TV and/or music and/or gaming machines but it's the ale that attracts him! In other words it's the product that excites him and he meets with other similar minded people (not me I might add!) who enjoy a good chat (putting the world to right!) enjoying traditional beverages!

I apologise if I got the wrong name but was it Sean Wilson?

I've actually attended a couple of Grasstrack meetings within the last couple of years (Pickering, North Yorkshire) and to be honest the attendances on both occasions was very poor.

I work in the tourism industry here in York and the thing that we are constantly being told is that attractions need to become more 'interactive'...unfortunately that often means having to 'dumb down' and often alienates some people. It's all very well discussing music, pre and post and/or between heat attractions but if the basic product isn't right you're not going to attract the punters. Track preparation, good racing (with less emphasis on speed?), admission prices (value for money), identifiable riders (locally based ideally and not those who flit in and out of the country on a whim), continuity of meaningful fixtures (not disrupted by the influence of GPs - should riders be given an ultimatum GP or British League?), continuity of team make-ups (they constantly change year on year and therefore difficult for the fans to relate too) etc etc. I've given promotional talks at schools in the past but. alas, they didn't really generate much interest as most children who are not familiar with motor cycle racing find it difficult to equate. However football, cricket etc which is (or was?) taught at school is much easier to sell and of course the national media is obsessed with these sports unlike speedway. But as I constantly refer to on this forum I am out of touch with speedway having not been for 12 years so there are those better placed than me to offer an incite to how the sport can move forward...if it's possible?

To quote Maurice Chevalier as he sang the lyrics to a Frederick Loewe composition... "I'm glad that I'm not young anymore...!" Ps Sounds better when recited in a slight French accent!

Seasons Greetings to you and yours Norbold! Keep the threads coming!

Just received my copy of the new Dave Morton book! Full of interesting photographs and it'll be my Christmas reading for sure!

Not sure if I agree that he was a poor England Team Manager. Under his leadership England did win the World Team Cup in Poland during 1977. Okay they lost the title in Landshut in 1978 but that was hardly the fault of John Berry as the riders chosen to compete were probably the best at that time...just that they under performed on the day and the Danes rode above themselves. The 1979 Team qualifier at Reading, again, he chose the riders on form but were caught out by the weather and the inspired Kiwis that day. As regards 1985 he really had little hope as regards choosing a winning team for the Cup in Los Angeles because he had little to chose from quite frankly! Like Len Silver, before and after him, a Team Manager can only do so much. It's really down to the riders to perform once on track and there's little a manager can do to avert that. John Berry hated the World Team Cup Formula...one rider per heat and I would agree. So difficult to pull points back if behind. He much preferred the Best Pairs and Team formulae. I agree, however, that he would often cause animosity amongst certain riders and/or promoters. PS Malcolm Simmons has gone on record to say that John Berry was the best England Team Manager that he rode under.

What attracted me to speedway all those years ago? My Grandfather, father, uncle, brother were all one time fans so it was natural to follow suit. The fact that you could mix with the riders after the meeting (I used to collect autographs in the pits). Riders giving rides to youngsters during the interval (good old H & S!). Locally based riders (I recall seeing the likes of Ashley Pullen pushing his bike to Cowley for an impromptu practice). Easily recognisable riders that you could identify with (they all look the same now). Playing at being the Team Manager pre-empting any tactical moves...the rules are so rigid now any tactical awareness appears to be at a minimum. Second Halves whereby you could watch the youngsters plying their trade (we were fortunate at Oxford especially during the 'Rebels' days as we got to see the Eastbourne & Peterborough riders due to the promotion - Danny Dunton & Bob Dugard - running Oxford at that time). ITV's 'World of Sport' who covered the sport and brought it into the homes of millions. A World Championship which was just that...not an 'invitation' meeting(s) whereby riders are now chosen because it suits the staging country and/or TV coverage and/or sponsors. Just a few of my personal observations but I'm not naive to understand that the world has moved on. What are the answers? I don't know...I'll leave that to others who have a better grasp of the modern sport as I stopped attending over ten years ago.

Ah! Ian Thomas...character as he was but always looking at ways of bending and/or manipulating the rules! No wonder he and John Berry never got on! John Berry, I'm sure, would never have allowed the situation to develop as did at Hull in 1979 whereby the 'Vikings' lost match points due to riders not appearing at vital meetings thus losing the championship that year! John may not have been everyone's cup of tea but administration was his strength and what he achieved at Ipswich was of the highest order. If I recall John and Peter York were the two who were nominated to help 'rescue' speedway before John pulled out leaving Peter to hold the reigns. Peter, in an article in 'Backtrack' some time ago, spoke at length explaining the problems whilst he was in office trying to get the promoters to pull together in the interest of the sport but failed...and so the problems continue unfortunately.