steve roberts

Good old Tom Leadbitter...remember him well! Got a feeling that he was involved in the 'squabble' at Hyde Road between Belle Vue and Leicester...didn't he right hook someone?

Remember attempting to get Hasse Holmqvist's autograph as he was rushing around the pits after the meeting about to take a shower...if I recall he was signing autographs thru' the window of the changing room. I used to get Hans Nielsen to sign each of my personalised programme boards that I used to paint.

Sounds reasonable to me dear boy! Views have been expressed many times on the subject but not by a large enough sample to arrive at any one conclusion. To re-iterate my preferred choice would be i) but I am of the old school as it was a system that I grew up with and accepted as part and parcel of the sport hence why an input from modern day participants would make for an interesting comparison.

I generally refrain from using assumptions whatever the subject personally. Seen evidence of that regarding other matters on this forum. Having a background in statistics personally it's generally the case that a goodly sample is taken before arriving at any given figure rather than plucking figures out of the air based on assumptions and/or opinions. It appears to be the case regarding the matter under discussion, in this instance, which on the face of it appears to side with the old T/S ruling but a broader picture would be advantageous before drawing a defining conclusion. I guess that older fans would be drawn more to the old ruling but it would be interesting to get a view from present day fans who have no experience of what the ruling once was but based on the present ruling (of which I have no working knowledge)? Hence a vote from a cross section of fans of all ages would prove interesting as I commented elsewhere.

Not that I'm aware of.

Interesting viewpoints and goes to show that people have different opinions about the T/S ruling (old and new)

Some fascinating stats there!

Lee Dunton one time White City Team Manager and son of Danny has died. Having supported 'The Rebels' during their tenure at Wood Lane I was often left astonished by some of his tactical moves but a sad loss nevertheless. RIP

...interesting all the same. It appears on here that the T/S ruling splits people and their particular view point which is what an open forum is all about. Me? The old system for reasons stated many times in the past without having to go over old ground but, then again, I have no working knowledge or understanding of the present system.

Would be interesting to know by way of a vote whether people preferred the old system (in whatever shape or form) or the new one as regards the T/S ruling?

Sounds totally bonkers to me...it appears that speedway has reached a new level.

Never a fan of Havelock I'm afraid.

It was a wet and miserable night and I drove from Oxford just to see Hasse for one last time. However I went via the equally awful North Circular to pick my brother up at Ilford before continuing onto Crayford...a long night!

There appears to be a consensus on the forum about the T/S ruling (I believe that it was first introduced in 1955?) but I personally don't recall in all my years of attending speedway (1972 - 2004) that there was ever really an issue...certainly not amongst the group of people that I used to stand with. The only grumble from what I remember was the introduction of a T/S in heat eight. It certainly wasn't viewed negatively in the way that Guest Riders, for example, were utilised...although that's a different story. I guess that nowadays people are more analytical and look at things differently but all I can say that it used to spice up meetings in my opinion where one of the pluses was trying to out manoeuvre the Team Manager and it used to cause plenty of gossip on the terraces between races.

Went to Crayford just the once (1983) when Crayford took on Hasse Holmqvist's Swedish club side...strange experience and seemed to be a mini Wimbledon and although outside one got the impression that you were under cover with the imposing surrounding grandstands. Track was a bit too small for my liking but a fascinating experience all the same.

A rider I would very much liked to have seen.

I have both books...fabulous reading!

I personally liked the thirteen heat formula but would be happy to concede that the fourteen heat version had some good merits. I've seen the development of thirteen, fourteen, fifteen and sixteen heat variations and all had good and bad points what with nominated riders heats being introduced and an extra reserves race amongst the differing versions...the two leagues once operated different versions for a couple (?) of years, I recall, which was most bizarre.

Yes I remember now...the old brain cells...Mike ride under Olsen and couldn't turn due to the heavy track and dumped Olsen (I think that he picked up an injury?) who was less than happy with Lee at the time. Personally never a fan of Olsen but that's another story!

I think that it was Anders Michanek Sid but I may be wrong?

A great shame regarding Michael Lee and his gradual demise although he did come back strongly for a couple of seasons at Poole and could have 'nicked' the 1983 World Title before it went wrong again during 1984. Saw him compete against Colin Richardson when both as fifteen year olds put on 'demonstration races' at Cowley during the interval in 1974...Colin won if I recall. Saw Michael make his international debut at White City in 1977 when England took on the might of The Rest of the World...England were too good for any one nation during that glorious period!

I have to say Sid that when Hans joined Oxford in 1984 he was beating most opponents...he put in some great years previously at both Wolves and Birmingham but the seat of power was beginning to swing with the demise of Lee, Carter, Sanders, Penhall for varying reasons although I think that it's fair to say that Hans very much held his own against those riders when they met.

Hans was the better all round rider (I would say that!) and his consistently good league form was way above anybody else over a number of seasons...including Erik. Gundersen was able to raise his game when required (as was the case in a number of World Finals) but when Ivan joined Hans' camp things evened out and counter balanced the 'Olsen effect'.

I was there Sid and remember it well! Personally I felt that when White City closed Gordon should have moved to Swindon...going back to Eastbourne was not in his best interests in my opinion. It actually begs the question "Did certain riders stay too long at any one track and would have benefitted with a move to help progression?" Chris Morton readily springs to mind and I recall it was discussed that a move to Coventry was mooted...certainly would have helped his gating...but came to ought. Malcolm Simmons comes to mind because his move to Poole pushed him further as a World Class rider.

Remember James Timy Te Kerrehi Herini Moore who rode for 'The Cheetahs' in 1978 (I recall he was a Cradley asset?) and showed potential but disappeared off the radar? One time Ole Olsen mechanic Cliff Andersen who rode for Oxford and Milton Keynes. Patrick Pawson one time junior at Wimbledon. Paul Fewings (sure he was a Kiwi?) who rode in Oxford second halves. Jim Wells - buddy of 'The Villain' who rode for Sunderland, Stoke and Oxford. Sure there must be some stories there somewhere? And of course Ivan's son, Kym, who apparently had a behind the scenes trial at Cowley but ended up at Newcastle. Kym and Robin Amundson (Hull and Workington?)