steve roberts

...and, of course, it was always said that to become World Champion one had to compete in Britain (despite a couple of exceptions!) regularly riding against the best and even Egon Muller took up the chance (1976) so as to tune himself up for the forthcoming World Final before disappearing...but as I say it's all pretty academic and the 'goal posts' were moved many years ago now with different criteria at play.

Also one needs to remember that some riders were riding 3 -4 times a week in Britain in what was a pretty comprehensive fixture list unlike today.

They were all taking rich pickings on the continent on Sundays as well as fullfilling British League engagements but it's all pretty academic really.

The first time I saw Hans at Hyde Road was in 1984 and I have to say he had difficulty in keeping either Peter Collins or Chris Morton behind him but when I next saw him there he was a master of the track riding all the lines.

Yes Martin admitted that he should have been more ruthless but I guess that wasn't in his nature...although he was more than annoyed with John Louis not only at this meeting but during the second half event of the World Team Cup at Norden when Louis hung him up on the fence. Martin took great delight in passing him and then both Simmons and Collins to win the race! Probably Martin's greatest meeting on the International stage. Vastly under-rated rider although I'm not sure by the "Budgie" faithful!

Yes thanks...I ordered it a few days ago and awaiting delivery.

I also liked visits to Plough Lane...the stadium just oozed atmosphere. Mike Bennett never lasted at Cowley and he has bitter memories of his time spent there.

It was a favourite of Martin Ashby...another southern "softie"!

That's an interesting observation? I saw lots of Gordon at Eastbourne, Oxford and White City (as well as on many other tracks) and he was a tough competitor but dirty I'm not so sure...although he and Steve Gresham had some "interesting" encounters but so did many with Gresham!

...or indeed English Team Managers during the seventies and eighties. Whether it was Len Silver, John Berry, Eric Boocock or Ian Thomas the make-up of English teams did, on occasions, show some bias between Northern and Southern based riders.

To be fair to John Berry he didn't actually refer to the terms "over" or "under" rated just an assessment based upon his personal opinion and/or observations. We've all got our personal views and opinions based upon watching riders as this particular thread is demonstrating and is of particular interest in my view.

Interesting analysis by John Berry in his "More Confessions" book where he had broken down a riders assessment on "equipment", "mental strength" and "ability" marking out of ten. For John Davis he wrote "You would have thought nobody could ever fault John's equipment. Certainly it was immaculate and was never short-changed. I just wonder, though, if a bit too much effort was spent on the bike looking the part rather than being the best performer. Still, eight and a half for that part of the formula. Strong mind? John could certainly talk a good race and did his homework and preparation well. He was also not worried about mixing it with anyone, although I am not sure he was quite up with the 'best' in the ruthless stakes. Eight points for that. Where John slips up in the ratings is in ability. To get as far as he did on such limited talent was incredible. For riding ability, I have to dip as low as five points I am afraid". Fair assessment I thought.

I often saw him at Smallmead in 1975 during a transitional season after his complicated move from Oxford and he was certainly "on fire" at the season's end "Geoff Curtis Memorial Meeting" when together with Dag Lovaas and Tommy Jansson ended up with 14 points and he won a three man run-off against the odds.

Great race...think that Bobby was to blame but a 50/50 split in my view!

Interestingly (averages aside) when John was interviewed some years ago he candidly admitted that "I didn't really get my whole act together until the last eight or ten years of my career, from 1984 onwards, when I became a better all round rider...British speedway never saw the best of me - I always went better on the big, fast continental tracks where the promoters and the people made me feel more appreciated." He felt that he probably "under-achieved as an individual in England but definately not abroad". In fact the whole interview showed John as a very articulate and thought provoking person. John Berry also went on record to suggest that "John was never going to be in the very top bracket, but he would always be there or therabouts and on his day was capable of surprising anyone". To re-iterate I saw John ride during his formative years at Cowley. First in the second halves progressing to full team opportunties during 1973 (as a replacement for Eddie Reeves) and moving up full time in 1974. It was clear that his biggest attribute was his gating and he surprised a few well known names during those times but he was inconsistant. It wasn't until he moved to Reading when his gating prowess became more reliable and his average took a steep learning curve to demonstrate that fact however his ability to pass was always questionable and something that he never really conquered which is why I never really rated him...but then there were/are many riders who suffer with the same attribute.

What I meant by back up was that he was often a supporting player (albeit a good one) to a team's number one although he did top the averages once at Reading and a couple of times at Poole. Personally I never rated him but his longevity is beyond question. Interesting when John joined Wimbledon in 1984 Malcolm Simmons mentored him and attempted to eliminate his habit of looking over his shoulder when in front which often left him vulnerable to the likes of Gordon Kennett especially!

Surprised that you have nominated the Cradley "United" jacket (1973 - 76)?

I'd agree Sid however he was good back up to the likes of Andersson, Schwartz, Jessup, Michanek etc. I obviously saw a lot of him during his formative years riding for the "Rebels" and was always regarded as a gater...but when he did he lowered a few scalps. I seem to remember that in 1974 he beat Briggo at both Wimbledon and Oxford when he out gated him...unfortunately he would often then run a last! He became more consistant when he left Cowley but was never the all round rider like some.

Must admit I'm looking forward to the result of the poll...just needs some more input.

Should have known that one! McKinlay, Harrfeldt and Hunter - West Ham 1965 & 66.

No Sunderland "Stars" White Knight? I rather liked the 1972 version...I guess an adaptation of the football team with its red and white stripes and star incorprated?

Davis, Andersson and Schwartz at Reading (1980) Kennett, Moran, Preston at Eastbourne (1982)

Yes Oxford had a change of image in 1972 with Dave Lanning at the helm and the nickname followed the team to White City.

Don't encourage the statisticians on here Sid!

Good question...and at the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest I guess the Confederate Flag would raise issues now...back in 1972 as a kid it looked so good and I personally never looked beyond the image. It was part of the Cowboys 'n' Indians culture that my generation grew up with watching westerns and dressing up!