GS550

That's not what the original post way back several pages said - it was by ranking only (as in average ranking) for each position. Also, if its by "his personal opinion" how come practically every ranking is per their average and exactly in order. The first post on page 1 of this thread yes, but not the (later) post which put forward listing by each riders position / average - that was proposed purely on their average ranking, nowt else. Well spotted. Correctamundo!!

szkocjasid, think you've got Masters and King transposed. Going purely by the averages you've listed, you've got "1. Sam Masters (8.97) 2nd" and "1. Danny King (9.57) 3rd". Should be other way round shouldn't it? So, using your system, this would also slightly change the overall score/rating for the two teams. Using the averages you've listed, the number 1's should actually be in this order(?): Craig Cook (9.83) 1st Danny King (9.57) 2nd Sam Masters (8.97) 3rd Josh Grajczonek (8.90) 4th Robert Lambert (8.70) 5th Aaron Summers (8.57) 6th Jason Garrity (8.55) 7th Lewis Bridger (8.53) 8th Jack Holder (7.16) 9th Ryan Douglas (7.18) 10th Edit: Seems to be something wrong with the 4th positions as well. From the averages you've listed Starke isn't the highest average Number 4 rider. Think you've transposed Starke (6.62) and Vissing (6.80).

Noted the points about Mitchell being an experienced rider rather than an up and coming one such as Jack Parkinson-Blackburn, and of course you wouldn't expect Josh Grajczonek to be taking a No.7 race jacket (they both landed on these shores around the same time didn't they). But, that's all water under the proverbial bridge, hopefully this time next season we are talking about a successful 2017 for Mitchell Davey, a turning point and a step forward in his speedway career, and maybe above all else an injury free season under his belt giving him something even better to aim for and build on in 2018. Onwards and upwards.

...cue for a song

.....thought it was Laura Morgan

Great news tyretrax.

You say "Glasgow's top 3 isn't that good": as SCB has said, Glasgow's top 3 have the highest scoring average of any team assembled for the coming season, so to say "Glasgow's top 3 isn't that good" just doesn't make sense. Glasgow seem to have gone more for stability with their proven top 3, and a solid foundation for the other 4 to build on. You don't see the fuss about Lawson: a proven scorer. I guess in your eyes that doesn't say much for the dozens of riders that he's outscored over the whole season. You probably never saw the fuss about his old man either.

Appreciated, thanks. You've put your points well, especially where you say about top heavy not being bad or a criticism. By the way your quote has been superseded One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet by anybody as far as I can see on this thread: "stability". In keeping a strong, and familiar, top 3, as well as keeping Lunna, so obviously that's 4 retained. Glasgow seem to have gone for stability as much as anything and who knows what that factor may count for in the coming season. 2017 season looks like shaping up to be close and competitive. Have a good one.

So on the one hand you're saying that Glasgow have used too many points on their top 3 - but you aren't then also saying Glasgow's top 3 are better than most either. So the view you are expressing isn't balanced at all. You say "most teams use just over half their points on a top 3" - that would be about 21 points, so you're saying that the top 3 of most teams have 7 point heat leaders? That's woefully weak - as woefully weak as the argument you're currently peddling. Taking into account that, you say, most teams have on average no more than 7 point heat leaders (or for every 8 point heat leader they must also have a 6 point heat leader(!!) to maintain only 7 points each in their top 3), then you must be absolutely awestruck by Glasgow's top 3!!! Regardless, of how it came about, Glasgow's bottom 4 are as good as any in this league - and infinitely stronger than the weak argument you're peddling.

That's just nonsense and plain wrong. Quality right through the 2017 Glasgow team. There are many teams that would swop their top 3 for Glasgow's. And many that would swop their bottom 4 for Glasgow's. That all adds up to one of the best balanced and strongest teams in this league. To say reliant on only one rider is nonsense - how many buckets of alcohol are you on.

Seems like an incredibly skewed view to me. And a far far FAR too dismissive assessment. Relying heavily on one rider? Utter nonsense!! Glasgow look like a well balanced team to me. "Never been impressed by Lunna" - you've obviously never seen him when he's absolutely flying and on song - goes past opposition riders as if they aren't there. The thing about Lunna is he's young. And in 2016 he suffered two injuries which stinted his progress - including riding for several meetings with a broken hand. And also riding on equipment that was due for renewal. When he recovered from his injuries and got some of his equipment replaced in the latter stages of 2016 he was a different rider and well capable of overtaking opposition heat leaders. He's reportedly got all-new bikes/engines for 2017. Still only a young rider, he has huge potential to improve. Perry is also still a young guy with potential to improve. Bewley. Probably as good a rising star as any in this league. Jack Smith. If pedigree counts for anything, again loads of potential to improve. That's the so called "bottom 4" and many teams would swop theirs for Glasgow's. The top 3 are solid. A good team, a winning team, needs the right balance between experience and youth and I think Glasgow have that - in abundance!!!! I also don't agree that "the top 3 have found their level" - they said similarly about Crabtree at end of the 1993 season going into the 1994 season. By end of 1993 season Crabtree had an average of just over 8 and getting closer to retirement than most. In 1994 season he achieved a near 10 point average!!! Ok so Edinburgh accused Crabtree of having "the fastest bike in the second division" (a certain M.Hunter) and not only did Crabtree make an incredible leap in his average in the latter stages of his career, so too did David Walsh who leapt from about 7.60 in 1993 to about 9.40 in 1994. Ok, so not necessarily that kind of leap in averages, but I think there's more to come from at least one of Glasgow's top 3. Much will, of course, depend upon injuries - but then that applies to every team. Seems to me that Glasgow have as good a team as any.

Depends how you view it. Not so long since Schlein was a Heat Leader in the Elite League and beating GP riders. He's a class act. Ok, so he has Monarchs past history so I guess that marks him in your eyes, and he's coming back from serious injury. But the 2017 Championship is weaker than the PL was last season, and his class may tell in this league. A near 10-point average is at least possible for Schlein, and I can't see why not.

Ipswich are my tip to win the 2017 league title. King and Shlein are both class acts and 10 point men in this league. The rest of the team solid. The whole team solid. King imo too good for this league and probably 10 plus. Sorry Glasgow but Ipswich look favourites to me, though Glasgow and Sheffield likely to make play-offs.

One of the most interesting, constructive and informative posts I've seen on this forum. I feel enlightened and I've learnt something. Will view young Bates in a different light next time I see him race.

Really necessary? A bit uncalled for surely. As they say, attack the post not the poster.

Not clear at all mate. If one thing was drummed into me in my job that entails analysing contracts and in doing my law degree (I'm not a lawyer) its the following guidance: "It isn't what you THINK it says or any preconceived notion, its what the wording actually states in English". So, read the actual words given mate, and it is far for clear and certainly not defined. Exactly!!

To be honest, not really mate

Is the number 7 rule not quite simple (dangerous term I know), at least this is what it seemed to be to me: 1. Riders that haven't ridden in second tier before: 3.00 assessed average for 2017 team building 2. Riders that have ridden in second tier in 2016 at number 7 and have an actual scoring average below 3 it will be that average (e.g. 2.56 or 2.21) but if say 1.88 then it would be rounded to a minimum of 2.00 for team building purposes. So few, if any, would be "2.00" unless their actual scoring ave in 2016 was below 2.00. Althoguh presumably a rider scoring just above 2 but after reduction for UK riders brings him below 2.00 then similarly rounded back up to 2.00. 3. A rider attaining a scoring average in second tier in 2016 at number 7, e.g. 3.80 or 4.20 then that would be their team building average for 2017, (albeit subject to usual reductions for UK riders?) At least that's how it seemed to me. No doubt somebody more clever than me that's studied the finer points of the new rules will correct it.

Its all 'relative' though. If two number one's face each other and they each have a 12 point average at the start of the season and lets say its the first match of the new season, if they ride against each other they take points off each other so they each now have a 6 point average. The standard hasn't gone down. At the same time, I know exactly what you mean as its what they used to call "de-strengthening". Think the most severe case of "de-strengthening" was in about 1997 season. The all-one-league had happened in 1995, and previous Div 2 riders went from typically being about 8 point ave to about 6.0-6.5 ave, but after two season (1995, and 1996) of all-one-league (Premier) the prev Div 1 teams broke away to form the Elite league, it left the remaining mainly ex-Div 2 teams to re-configure their team averages etc, the "de-strengthening" was so severe that previous 8 point riders (1994 season) by the end of the 1997 season their actual averages had risen to become near 10 point average, e.g. a certain K.McKinna went from an 8 point rider to 6.31 in the all-in-one league, to then becoming a near 10 point rider (9.73) by the end of the 1997 season - the last time McKinna had that kind of average was 1989 and since then had been on a steady decline. Similarly, Paul Bentley had a 9 point average in 1994, then a 6 point ave in 1995 and 1996, and back up to around 9 1997/98 and a near 10-point average in 1999. As I recall, 1997 saw previous third heat leaders become No.1's, and the second strings seemed to be quite weak. But after a few seasons it all levelled out again and into the 2000's the second tier strengthened up again. Ok, I shot down my own opening point, haha.

I guess like for us all its individual choice, maybe just a bit upset with losing out on Saturdays when working, maybe later on when a few Sunday meetings run will have a change of heart and attend the ones that can make.

I usually understand your posts straight off but must admit I'm not understanding this one mate. Please explain?

Think you will find that they started using the "Premier" wording in Scotland many years before the English League.

Well best of luck to Rye and Somerset. Looks like Glasgow in the "Championship"? for 2017. Top flight maybe 2018?? Thanks for the 'heads up' mate

Probably. I've just been busy working that's all, I guess summat's happened that I should know 'bout?!! Ha, I've obviously missed summat

With Somerset and Rye House confirmed in the top flight, this one's a dead duck, unless anyone wants to comment on Glasgow being in the top flight maybe 2018.