25yearfan

If Garritys average fits then theres no reason why he shouldn't be in the NL! Afterall hes hardly setting the world alight in the PL so his average would be under 5 anyway and he obviously could do with the extra rides!

Too many people have made the "track is cr*p" comment about Leicester Beaumont Park for it not to be true! Changes have to be made before the Leicester speedway folds because of poor crowds!

['25yearfan' timestamp=1331464700' post='2086164] ['norbold' timestamp=1330666739' post='2084030] Phil Clarke, Billy Bales, Ove Fundin all at Norwich. Phil Clarke and Billy Bales were tremendous clubmen at the Firs while Ove Fundin was different. Granted Fundin kept loyal to Norwich and I'm certain if Norwich had stayed open another 10+ years then he'd of continued riding much longer but Ove wasn't much of a team man although obviously his contribution to Norwich speedway was huge and still remembered to this day and for many years to come! Another loyal clubman who never rode for anyone else was one of Ipswich Witches all time greats Tony "Shrimp" Davey, 1970-1980! In modern times Chris Louis' loyalty to the Ipswich Witches 1989-1998 riding and 1998-present as part of the management has to be one of the best examples of club loyalty when one considers Chris was one of the best riders in the world in his prime and could of easily left for another club willing to pay him more! I must apologise to Chris Louis I've sold him well short. He in fact rode until 2008, only finishing after injury and only missing the 2003 season also due to injury! And yes Norbold, I do know who the most popular Norwich Star is, a certain O Fundin!

['norbold' timestamp=1330666739' post='2084030] Phil Clarke, Billy Bales, Ove Fundin all at Norwich. Phil Clarke and Billy Bales were tremendous clubmen at the Firs while Ove Fundin was different. Granted Fundin kept loyal to Norwich and I'm certain if Norwich had stayed open another 10+ years then he'd of continued riding much longer but Ove wasn't much of a team man although obviously his contribution to Norwich speedway was huge and still remembered to this day and for many years to come! Another loyal clubman who never rode for anyone else was one of Ipswich Witches all time greats Tony "Shrimp" Davey, 1970-1980! In modern times Chris Louis' loyalty to the Ipswich Witches 1989-1998 riding and 1998-present as part of the management has to be one of the best examples of club loyalty when one considers Chris was one of the best riders in the world in his prime and could of easily left for another club willing to pay him more!

['Nikko'] I would say up to a 6 point NL average is way to high and also 2 NL riders out of 4 is too many. For me this league is for young riders to gain experience in team racing and to to get ready for NL teams. Personally I have no problem with 1 NL reserve per team but no more and no riders who have ridden at NL heat leader or above. If you look at some of the reserves this season they are still very inexperienced and this league would help them. It will also give some riders without a team spot the chance to show what they can do. Rules are going to have to agreed and stuck to. If they are then this can only be a good thing. Maybe 2 NL riders in a team max maybe too much but then again I think that all riders under 18 at March 15th of a particular season should be exempt from resticrtions unless they have gained at least a NL average of 8 or over. It would be wrong for all NL riders to be excluded from the junior League because riders get better by riding against better riders and this League has to show a definate stepping stone between junior League and NL! I agree that rules have to be stuck to which I hinted on in my long post on this thread. Since the old official Leagues were finished after the 1992 season there has been a few unofficial attempts to run Leagues at this level and they have normally failed because few people knew much about them with results not being published in the speedway star, riders riding for more than one team at the same time and generally rules not being kept to. The 1999 Development League which I believe was officially sanctioned was the nearest we got to a decent organised League but the organisers lost interest and it withered away. The BSPA have to ensure the 3 Junior League sare run properly and that results are included in the speedway star under the main meeting like they used to be in the 80's and early 90's. Basically they have to promoted like they are the 4th Division of British speedway which is exactly what they are! The old Junior Leagues of the 80's and early 90's for me as a fan used to add extra value to a meeting, sometimes these matches would provide more incident and excitment than the main meeting. Before these Leagues and the old style 2nd halfs died, that was part of the thrill of going ot a meeting, seeing young and or local rookies have a go at making the grade. In this day and age of financial struggle for most people and promotors looking to make meetings better value for money, a properly run and structured Junior League would help no end and if these Junior Leagues increased in popularity then on meetings where they wern't a Junior match, they'd be more scope for 2nd half scratch races.

This League has to be taken seriously with a proper piece in programmes for people to fill out and results, averages and League tables published in the speedway star. It also has to be taken seriously in terms of team make ups. NL riders with starting averages of 6 or over should be excluded and teams should only include 2 NL riders per meeting. Riders should be signed to a particular team and shouldn't be able to ride for a number of teams as this would make this farcical. One aspect of team line ups that shouldn't be taken to seriously is the strength. Obviously if a club has a glut of riders they are going to use the best of the lot but Tactical substitutions shouldn't be used so riders will get their full quota of rides. If theirs a reason for one of the top 3 riders to not take rides then both the lowest two averaged riders in the team can take one extra ride each! The junior Leagues of the late 70's up until 1992 worked well but by then their had been a definate need for a 3rd Division which finally came about in 1994. In current times, the existing NL is needed but theirs also a need for a level below it as the NL has become very competitive. The Midlands League and Northern Leagues have filled the gaps inthese areas and hopefully this new Anglian League will do the same!

Good idea but where are the riders going to come from? Ipswich haven't run a proper 2nd half for anumber of season now, only having an after meeting practise session for whoever turns up and normally most of these are often a couple of under 15's, and foriegn guys who'd probably be ineligible for such a League! I hope it goes well but unless we can find more youngsters interested enough and/or able to have a go then such a League may struggle although such a League may indeed do exactly that!

For a start changing the name of the NL again would be silly and confusing especially if it was to the British League the name of the top flight from 1965-1990! With the exception of Dudley/Cradley at Wolves who are some of the most passionate and vastly numbered fans in the Country and would very likely be EL if they had their own track, running two teams at one tracks has never been profitable. This is cause unless you have a Cradley scanario where they have a big fanbase desperate to have their own track and are lucky to have Wolves literally down the road, two teams at one track would be trying to get viable crowds out of one fanbase and most speedway fans can only afford to follow one team and will always follow the higher League team. This was even the case at Belle Vue and King's Lynn in the late 60's/early 70's when they both tryed to run two teams at 1st and 2nd Division levels and this was in an era when crowds were 3 times as big as they are nowadays! The only way most tracks can run two teams without crippling themselves financially is a Len Silver like set up where the promotor doesn't mind writing of the losses of the 3rd tier team, very good sponsorship or grants from either a BSPA pot out of the SKY deal and/or proceeds from the Cardiff GP or lottery grants. Its very disapointing to see some of the ridiculous activites that gets funding from the lottery pot while speedway doesn't get any! The 3rd Division has always been seen as something of an unviable afterthought by most promotors of tracks in the top two Leagues. In reality it has been one of the best innovations ever because many Brits have had their 1st 7 man team experience in this League, many new tracks have dipped thier toes in the less expensive 3rd Division waters first and many former tracks have returned because this level provided them with an affordable League to compete at! A perfect example of this is Mildenhall speedway who would have never reopened without a 3rd Division and who offers far better value for money speedway meetings on most occasions than any of their higher League near neighbours, King's Lynn, Peterborough, Ipswich and Rye House! Last season Stoke dropped down cause they were finding financiing PL a difficulty. Without the NL Stoke wold of likely not ran League speedway last season or this upcoming season! Most of the virgin tracks opened or defunct tracks reopened since the 1990's have had their first/returning season in the 3rd tier! The League is going through tough times but remember it went down to 5 teams in 1998 so can overcome this difficult period! What needs to be done by the BSPA is to find some way of making running 2nd teams at 3rd tier level viable and to also take the excellent Midland and Northern junior Leagues and all amatuer clubs properly under their umbrella. The junior Leagues have offered the many riders under the very high NL level a proper stage to learn their trade and are effectively part of a British 4th Division set up. While the vibrant amatuer scene which started in the early 90's and has expanded every since is effectively a British 5th Division. Nowadays at most tracks the old style 2nd halfs are dead so amatuer meetings offer the best way for riders to try speedway and in properly staged and structured meetings where they are racing against other riders which is the best form of practise because they learn more this way than by riding round on your own. With more exposure and asisstance from the BSPA these junior Leagues and amatuer scenes can offer British riders a perfect stepping stone! I'm sure offering EL and PL more points on top of the points limit would entice many to run a 2nd team in the NL!

Mike Bowdens only business interest is Plymouth speedway so I've been told! I've also been told that hes makes a good living out of it and has said to many he'll stop when that stops being the case! I respect Mike Bowden for reopening Plymouth speedway, a place where I never thought we'd see speedway again. But how things are going if he stays, keeps on with his very poor PR skills and keeps putting out weak teams, we'll end up with another Newport speedway/Tim Stone scanario where he drags the club right to the bottom with no one going to watch, help out or sponsor! Putting our a weak team last season in your 1st season of PL racing combined with the late admittance to the League is understandable but this season its not. No disrespect to Brent Werner but hes retired a couple of times in the past now due to losing his desire to race and now in his late 30's that is not going to come back. Its seems obvious from a distance that Mike Bowden needs to sell Plymouth speedway to more proactive promotors!

name='oldace' timestamp='1326837399' post='2069618'] It was a little dig at others who use the same phrase against the GP. Not to be take seriously!!!!!!! Sorry not good at spotting sarcasm in my old age! Mike Bast certainly could have developed into a world class performer had he chose to race in England but it would never have happened by staying in the USA where he became a tiny track clone and flying to Europe for World championship meetings!

Your 1st paragraph was true oldace but their has been a propor world championship since 1936 so I don't understand your last paragraph!

What I mean is they had regular PL spots! I'm not begrudging them anything cause all 3 of them, the Worrals and Birks have deserved their PL spots through showing talent on track combined with the desire to make it! This then goes back to what I was saying earlier - you've got guys riding at NL level who've been around longer than 3 combined yet are nowhere near a PL spot which means in all probability they'll not make it at that level!

Messrs Worrals and Birks were PL regulars at the start of the season but like I said in my post the riders who do make it progress quickly and these 3 talented riders have certainly done that and look like they could indeed make it! I'm convinced we'd have more British professional riders if we had a system like Denmark and Poland or hardly any planning restrictions like Australia but also know that good quality riders will come through whatever the system. Like I said in my last post a rider whos been riding speedway for 4-5 years since mid teens and hasn't made PL by the age of 20 is very very unlikely to make it in the future!

There will always be a conflict of interests. Standalone tracks have to put out a reasonably experienced side in order to attract enough of a paying crowd to make it viable! If my local NL side Mildenhall, put a team out containing all of the riders who rode 2nd halfs there last season and had two 2nd strings Joe Jacobs and Aaron Baseby as the top 2 riders the crowds would drop by 2/3rd's and running Mildenhall speedway wouldn't be viable! Stoke also fall into the same category but like Mildenhall as Malcolm points out they do try and accomodate some youngsters at the bottom end of their side and are trying to create a clear path for young riders to go down with 2nd halfs, training schools etc! At the end of the day their isn't presently a good enough system in British speedway to develop youngsters but also speedway is about winning a race and teams can't be expected to carry youngsters not improving forever. The riders who make it normally progress quickly. If a youngsters been knocking around 2nd halfs/NL speedway since 13-16 years old and hasn't broken into PL by the time they are 20 then its a safe bet they aren't going to get any higher than they presently are! Last seasons NL winners Scunny are one of the best clubs for encouraging young inexperienced riders but the side they used for most of the season was made up of quite a few PL regulars albeit messrs the Worrall twins and Birks who are still fairly new to the game!

At the end of the day the BSPA approved Cameron Heaps inclusion in the Mildenhall line up and the 2011 season has came and is now gone! I hope Cameron Heaps is a Mildenhall rider next season cause his exciting riding style adds to what normally is terrific entertainment at West Row when theres a fen Tigers home meeting!

Cameron Heaps qualified because of British ancestry. I think either his mother or father was born in Britain or one of his grandparents were. Anyone knows exactly how Cameron qualified? Mildenhall speedway in 2011 would have been worse off without Cameron Heaps!

Only my personnal estimate, but I'd say the season average would have been 7-800! Their would have been a few meetings under 700 but meetings like the opener 1500+ and a few of the other big crowds would have made up for the leaner meetings crowdwise!

Glad to see the best value speedway in East Anglia (and no doubt much further afield than that!) Mildenhall speedway will be back in 2012! Though I have to say, I find it hard to believe the current very capable Mildenhall promotion were struggling to make it viable because crowds must have averaged at least 7-800 last season, they had a thriving commercial side bringing in a tidy income, the promotion were helping out a certain team member with equipment, the riders wern't on big deals, the reasonable rent figure was lower than what it has been in the past and all 3, messrs Jolly, Lee and Louis have other profitable income streams away from Mildenhall speedway! Anyway good luck to Mildenhall speedway and speedway as a whole in 2012 and beyond!

Fascinating stuff! The 1st clip is from Norwich not King's Lynn! I've seen the George Formby clip before. It'd be interesting to find out if the field the grass speedway meeting took place on is still a field in present times!

Probably true about Poole! In the case of Newport Hornets (always prefered the Mavericks nickname cause I can still remember Rochdale Hornets from the 1970's!)if crowds were as low as 50 thats unsustainable especially with the Wasps team getting poor crowds there in the PL! Why aren't EL and PL tracks running NL reserve teams given some subsidy out of the BSPA pot to run NL teams?

Calling the NL team Dudley is just an attempt to persuade the ignorant Council that having a well supported team in their Borough would be so beneficial for so many reasons! I'm sure off the record, the Dudley promotion share the supporters complete discontent for not only Dudly Council but their neighbouring Councils as well considering the ridiculous way Cradley speedway has been treated since the early 90's! The Wolves Cubs CL team of a few years back wern't well supported so its doubtful the Wolves promotion would consider such a venture unless it was heavily subsidised. From what I've heard the few Birmingham Bulls meetings at Perry Bar wern't well supported either. Unless you have a special case like the Heathens, who are really an EL set up without a track (noone else like the Heathens fans!) or Rye House where Len Silver bankrolls the 2nd team, running 2 teams at one track has never worked cause people don't support the 2nd team in enough numbers. It didn't work at Belle Vue in the late 60's when crowds were much bigger than today, nor King's Lynn at the same time. In modern times Poole probably get the biggest crowds in the Country yet they couldn't afford to keep subsidising their loss making NL team Bournemouth who also ran home meetings at Wimbourne Road. This is why I respect Scunthorpe for keeping 3rd Division racing going as long as they have cause they don't get big crowds for their PL meetings!

Thats normally the assumption when an existing promotor trys to block a new track appearing nearby to his/her track! Sorry if I got it wrong, will you please give us more details of your Rohterham speedway conversation with Neil Machin!

Iam now watching on live TV the FA cup 1st round tie between FC Halifax Town and Charlton Athletic from the former home of the Halifax Dukes speedway team, the Shay Grounds. Unfortunately the new stands have been squared off and built over the former wonderful speedway track, so no chance of speedway coming back there! By all accounts there are persons actively looking for a new site for a speedway track in Halifax, so fingers crosssed cause I think a Leicester/Somerset like set up in Halifax would be well supported!

Amazing that a venue that last staged speedway in the early 1930's still has evidence of the track today! There was plans to stage CL racing at an existing facility in the Rotherham area a few years ago but Sheffields Neil Machin blocked it caused he thought it would effect Sheffields crowds. Ridiculous really cause Sheffield diehards wouldn't stop going to Owlerton and start going to a CL venue cause it wouldn't be Sheffield and probably wouldn't be as professional as Sheffield. Also many others who go to Sheffield would see CL racing as a drop down so wouldn't be interested. Although I'm sure many Sheffield fans would be enticed to try out CL speedway at Rotherham but not instead of going ot Owlerton! Silly thinking by a guy (Machin) who claims to be an out and out speedway man. CL speedway at Rotherham would act as a nursery track for Sheffield and make it uneccessary to run CL racing at Owlerton which isn't profitable. Also it may even help to increase Sheffields crowds cause Rotherham locals may catch the speedway bug and decide to take in higher League racing at the nearest higher League venue - Sheffield! My area has King's Lynn, Mildenhall and Ipswich not far from each other in a much less populated area than the Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster Yorkshire conurbation and all 3 are well supported! British speedway would be better with more tracks. It amazes me the lengths that promotors supposedly with the sports best interests at heart go to prevent tracks from opening!

Shame there will be no NL speedway at Newport but if this move ensures that speedway survives at the venue then it is a neccessary evil! All in all Newport speedway deserve credit for maintaining 3rd tier racing at the venue as long as they have when they have struggled for crowds and other more successful tracks don't run, or have have abandoned NL speedway much sooner!