sparkafag

If said other riders can’t outperform Harris/qualify instead of him, what do you suggest they will bring to the GP’s? It’s actually just possible/there is a load of evidence to suggest that out of the riders who attempt to qualify for the GP Harris is in the top 16 of those riders.

F1 also has the advantage of millions of pounds that can be used to invest in technology, safety and research, something Speedway doesn’t have so it is natural it would be further advanced than a sport like Speedway. The case and example of F1 as a comparison is absurdly unfair, it is the absolute elite of motor sport, a small group of drivers, smaller numbers at the absolute pinacle of their profession, it is naturally going to decrease the likely number of deaths and injuries. If for example, the Grand Prix was used as a case example for Speedway, it would show the sport in an incredible light when it comes to rider safety. “Speedway” and injuries and deaths are classed across 1,000s, of competitors at varying levels and skill sets racing on a variance of conditions. I appreciate the case could be argued that safety should be the same for every competitor (and in an ideal world it should) but when you are allowing people to develop their craft, it is natural, almost expected there will be bumps along the way, I would assume the same happens with F1 drivers before they make it the top level, or in the vast majority of cases, don’t.

At what promotions is this aimed? It's an absurdly lazy comment, almost throw away unless backed up with any kind of substance

It would surely depend on context and circumstance. If they were a random drunk simply swearing they would be told to go forth and multiply. If it was someone who had just witnessed an accident and were in a state of shock I would probably be understanding. One thing though, neither the possible scenario, nor the situation with your neighbour have a thing to do with Woffinden conveying his emotion of the tragic situation of his close friend, in such circumstances who the hell is anyone to tell someone how they should or shouldn’t act, or how they should feel.

I felt the same re Heat 13 (the pass on Zagar) it was comparable to a ride by Woffinden at Sheffield the year he won the PLRC. He has an ability at times to race a track in a way it hasn’t been raced by other riders, he also has an amazing talent in that you can see where and how he is going to pass a rider almost 2 laps before he does, which doesn’t make it any less stunning when he actually carries the move off. Re him swearing, so what, in a week when a man he is a close friend with has been left hospitalised his emotions will evidently be running high, I would doubt what he is saying on TV is of much importance to him just now, I would have expected people to be more understanding of the current circumstance and strains currently on the likes of Woffinden.

Holder

Agree so much to the extent that….you add to the farce…. To go back to the ACTUAL meeting... I have always felt Mellgren was an excellent rider, he seems to have suffered with injury for a while. If Berwick are to run next season hopefully both sides can do enough to show that they would want to stick with it next year, if he was to find form he is on a very decent average, or on a 6.00 he fits in nicely if Berwick were to return to a side build on strength.

No. Edinburgh openly talk about struggling to finance their current team, adding another rider of heat leader quality to their side isn’t going to help with that. The sport is hardly thriving in Newcastle and Ipswich dropped leagues to move away from the expense of riders like Nicholls. I personally wouldn’t want to see a return of any kind of looser trophy either, it is perfectly normal for sides to have a crap season. If anything asking sides who have had a crap season to compete in a crap competition is only adding additional expenses as it has already been shown fans aren’t interested in attending dead rubbers. It wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to look at ways sides could actually end their season quicker rather than extend it. The idea of a league restructure is both admirable but also highly questionable just now given you would basically be asking clubs to throw their entire business plan and accounting up in the air, it would just as quickly end a lot of clubs, needlessly, than it would make the sport in the country. It is neither here nor there really but what difference would it make if attendances are, or aren’t made public?

And despite all that it’s just over a month since Bianchi sadly passed away. There are safety measures that can be taken but F1 like Speedway is ultimately a high speed motor sport, you can marginalise risk but you aren’t getting to stop people being seriously injured.

He was only beaten once by a Newcastle rider in a race he finished against them at Berwick He "took the piss" by prearranging Ollie Allens season ending injury, Barkers own injury that wiped out half his season and then the goings on with Lambert....no wait, that's insanely far fetched

There isn’t much to suggest he does. If he makes the GPs UK companies will sponsor him because he will be able to promise X amount of hours per year TV coverage. He is also good enough that he will find a team place on the continent

It (and the PL) could go a long way simply by looking after the presentation of the product rather than tinkering with points limits. Some clubs appear to be in the mind-set that you need to keep people in a stadium for 2 hours plus if you are charging them £15 +, you really don’t. I understand from cash flow point of view, revenue etc intervals, raffles etc are required, but Christ they are dated and utterly dull, draw them during a quick 10 min half time at best. If nothing else I would introduce a rule where clubs where fined in a meeting runs over 1hr 30 mins unless there was genuine mitigating circumstances. I would change the race format personally, it seems things like tac subs etc are seen as what has shredded the sports credibility, I would argue that basically openly admitting half the riders are crap before a meeting has even started isn’t doing people many favours either. Surely from a cost cutting/fairness point of view you just give Stefan Nielsen, Starke, Bates etc double money for their points (Although even I can see the downside of that, eg over paying for mediocrity, but there needs to be a way to attract riders to ride EL etc)…decent reward if they do manage to beat others, if they have a great season they have earned their money etc, you also offer the riders credibility and fans “moments” across the season….”that night Branford led Harris for 3 laps” or “that night Newman took Doyle from the back” etc, seeing the underdog beat a better rider, is part of the magic of any sport….. who knows riders might actually progress again, take another step rather than hitting a plateau because they beat guys they beat every other race. Uber pedantic but I would also introduce a rule where sides could declare their top 5 in any order, but that is neither here nor there in the short term

How it can it possibly be known if Ward is or isn’t better than Adam was? Even if he is/isn’t does it matter? It isn’t like he has to be better than Leigh Adams, he has to be better than the guys racing a bike now, and you could argue the case that he is better than the vast majority. To state Ward is simply naturally talented is also almost damning with faint praise, he is also absurdly consistent, despite his off track troubles I can’t think of any stage of his career thus far where he has had struggles with form for a prolonged period, the GP of New Zealand and a first leg play off (I think) against Coventry are complete rarities Even taking into account his years ban, he has had a sensational career thus far for a 23 year old. This is all ifs and buts etc, but if he had picked up even an average score of 10 a round in the GP’s he missed in 2013 (10 is actually lower than his season average that year he finishes 3rd in the World, if he does the same in 2014, 10 point average, he is taking 3rd again. I understand the counter would be, part of the problem is staying fit etc, but that also comes with maturity knowing where to be and when etc, if he irons that out (I don’t see much that suggests he won’t personally) he won’t be far away from winning at least one world title.

What a rider did at the start gate 3 weeks ago is completely irrelevant.....

Allan has always had an unhealthy obsession with over refereeing starts something that was evident even early on in the meeting. It seems he has never been able to grasp the idea that people aren’t there to watch him try and catch riders out they are there to watch speedway races. The swinging dick content he engaged in last night was tedious, probably drove home with a stauner and a feeling that he had defeated Sargreant, in reality he cheated the crowd and got a decision horribly wrong. Which, when you are the pedant he is, is a rather funny bit of irony.

The problem with “listening” to a fan base on a form like this is that there are a number of parody accounts, Dyson24 being the latest in a long list. A group of trolls and wind up merchants who have set out to derail all things Berwick Speedway for the last 5 years, listen to their “opinion” it is turgid enough as a fan having to read it let alone having to take it on board! listen to the opinion of fans who obsess over nuisances and newsletters, it passes the stage of listening to them and ultimately ends with pandering to them once you realise that actually, some accounts just find ways to put a negative spin on quite a lot of things the club does...that problem runs deep on this forum where some simply seem to punt speedway as a sport day in day out. Berwick have been as open and transparent as any other club in the league in recent years, like most clubs the message is typically, if you have an opinion or feedback contact the club and have a chat about it, that’s the general noise that comes from every club in the country, venting your spleen about it daily on here, well personally, I don’t know what someone thinks they’re actually achieving by doing that? That again can be applied across the board on this forum. A case and point being if I were to be of the mind-set that you should be able to buy Dre Beats Earphones from the shop of every speedway track in that country, that’s how I feel, I am going to post it on every thread and irrespective of the good work clubs do, positive or not I am going to demand that they sell Dre Beats. I don’t know how much that will cost, the logistics of it, it might ultimately see clubs running at even more of a loss than they currently are but I WANT DRE BEATS EAR PHONES….chances of it happening? Slim so in reality it is in every ones best interest I get over myself and understand that and focus on what the club actually does rather than taking the stance that the club don’t listen to me or aren’t actually acting in my best interest….because even though they don’t sell Dre Beats, speedway clubs do sell the product of “speedway” which is far more important than Dre Beats, newsletters and supposedly being fed total BS.

If they haven’t seen the other incidents though then to them the Bates incident possibly is the worst they have seen….what happened 10/15/20 years ago doesn’t change that, nor does the incidents others have seen or incidents from other meetings. It is a fair point that if a rider crosses the line they should be removed from the meeting, it happens in other sports.

So morally, given you aren’t a fan of dirty racing (I don’t think many are) the same rule would have probably resulted in Matousek being banned from the sport, never mind a meeting after he was police escorted out of the stadium for his “stunt “ with Nagy. Wilson receiving multiple bans for taking Robert Eriksen off for going “to slow” which resulted in a broken collar bone, the incident with Gary Corbett which basically finished him, yet Wilson still wanted to attack said rider while he lay injured on the ground. I can’t imagine he would have been allowed to continue in the meetings where he shoved Olsen of his bike for no apparent reason or took Danny Bird of for having the audacity to dare beat him in a race around Owlerton. All of which I would assume would result in you agreeing with the idea that riders should be removed from meetings for dangerous racing rather than the creation of a rule for a rider who retired the best part of 5 years ago?

Yes

Really? Great! we are allowed opinions even Ian Rae, you think he came over as a prat more power to you I think Cooks a good rider but an utter tosser, nothing to do with trolling, over reacting etc just asessing him based on the way I see it, just as Craig does the Berwick track, don't need fans of Sheffield or Edinburh to position it as over reacting etc or try to attempt to tell others how they should think or act, I'm quite calm when I've come to the assessment that....he's a tosser, doesn't make me a troll for doing so etc.

Not that fussed re trolling, bites or what's written on social media, Cook evidently is a prat and more play to Rae for saying it Given you can say what you like on here and caveat it with IMO it's slightly Gestapoish to attempt to handcuff the opinion of anyone irrespective of their role As a fan of Berwick it's great seeing someone stick up for the club while some bell end attempts to take pops at it

If Lamberts in it he won't be far away. He probably has the best race day head of the lot of them. Morris is pretty rapid around Sheffield as well if he is fit enough to race.

Is the idea that GP riders are expensive not entirely presumptuous? Does it not entirely depend on the rider, their demands, their value etc…. Eg if GP rider Y races for a side and their attendances increase by X as a result of performances with him in the side, they make the Play Offs, they progress in the Cup, they don't miss meetings, they don't cause a change of race night due to clashes, they bring in more sponsors etc is not damaging to then chase that rider out the country even if their demands are perfectly reasonable….who even is the one that decides what is seen as “reasonable”. I am a Berwick fan, in a one league structure why should my club (this isn’t in anyway a dig at them) get to decide/be used as a gauge to what Swindon or Coventry want to pay a rider? You can water a product down but you are still going to have to pay certain riders what will be seen as “market value”….if anything a one league structure increases "market value" of riders for 50% of the sides in the league....Poole and Newcastle have to find a side that is on a even scale... genuinely how does that work? Poole are going to want to 3.00 talent Newcastle want, the 7.00 Oz talent Newcastle want, the Number 1 Newcastle want, the he could up his average second string Newcastle want....after Newcastle find they cannot compete with Poole they then have to go to battle with every other EL side before you even think about cash rich PL sides.....genuinely what are Newcastle going to be left with....they have hardly beeen great this season but in one league they are going to have half that average side taken from them! A “big league” would see absurdly average riders given value far above their mediocre talent simply due to their false worth to a side, as well as that you can imagine the bitching and politicking re average agreements and what riders would or wouldn’t come in at. I don’t think people should feel shunned if others don’t agree with them but jeezo at least show some strength in your beliefs rather than simply accusing others of trolling/bullying if they ask a question of it…most of the time fans are only asking out of curiosity/to find answers rather than to belittle people.. Eg….if I come out with the idea of….have a league that only features foreign riders, no need for Brits I wouldn’t expect to be able to post that without questioning or validation of my rationale…. and if I was I personally wouldn't simply say...good old days 50s/60s etc....you're picking on me...let's just give up then...yes you're right there is nothing wrong with the sport etc.

Really? In a one league system where Number 1s like Nicholls met the standard of reserves sides would have in a one tier/no DU league….there would be an absolute chasm. It would mean Nicholls would be racing guys like Konopka, Edberg and Clegg, and that would be in a weak race, in a strong race it would likely be guys like Lanham, Davies and Hansen. I am not saying guys who are good at sport competing against guys aren’t good at sport is a bad thing, but you would be talking length of a straight stuff in the majority of races. You would also have the caveat of removing Ward, Holder etc doesn’t necessarily cut costs, as you’re simply handing the “big hitter” tag to the like of Nicholls, Harris etc who would carry 10+ averages and expect the money to reflect that….remove them….the next group would expect the same. The counter point will be don’t pay them it then….sure take that stance, but someone will, you also then have to deal with the reality of removing riders, means less riders to fill spaces, thus you end up having to pay absolute guff money simply to fill a jacket. It also means Ward, Holder, Zagar etc aren’t in the league, Worral, Garrity etc aren’t doubling up. You are removing the best part of 40 riders…it would be R/R guests galore by week 2, by midseason sides would barely be able to track a side of guests let alone their own 1-7.