sparkafag

How do you propose the 7.00 assessed rider who already had two bikes over here was going to get into the side if the teams average didn’t drop?

I appreciate some might argue there are already enough ridiculous rules in the sport as it is but I wouldn’t count meetings where a side hits 65 plus when averages are calculated. It is slightly ridiculous that Glasgow riders are punished for that and Scunthorpe can gain from it.

If the rule is in place that you cannot sign for two tracks that race on the same night (which seems entirely logical) then the number of clashes is pretty irrelevant. If it was allowed to happen once and “yeah but” is used in that instance it genuinely would suggest favouritism if another side was told no if they attempted the same thing.

No

I wouldn’t ask you to trawl through years of stats to find riders but if you use the opposition of it retires riders I don’t think it is too much to ask what that is based on, as it seems it is, well, nothing. If it hasn't actually retired riders then it is a poor point to attempt to use to add weight against the rule. I don’t think the employee is getting away with it either. I think it is a constructive way to see speedway in this country through a turbulent financial time, while also developing more riders. The current development programme is literally doing that, developing riders, and there is visible and tangible evidence to support that, eg loads of Brits getting loads of meetings and getting better as a result of it, if that trend continues it increase the number of riders that can be signed and thus decreases the need for DU rules/R/R and guests, but it will take time. The alternative you are suggesting is clubs spend more to attract riders who don’t want to race here, I fail to see how that benefits the product short term give that crowds didn’t massively increase when those riders were here and clubs were spending money on them, the watering down of the product is to fall in line with the people who want to attend. The alternative speedway often advocated of GP stars racing here and a strong EL has been done, and it wasn’t working that’s why most rider’s demands are no longer met, and in the short/medium/long term the livelihood of clubs rather than supposed riders who are left on the shelf or retired is far more important, given those clubs need to be there to employ the riders.

Yeah! You tell em Gresh! nothing worse than posts from people analysing others and commenting on how others act and behave on a forum and can't just keep their thoughts to themselves but have to make comment….ow em.... actually wait a second your post is just like that....

The football comparison is completely ridiculous for 101 reasons, the main one being football has a pool of players to pick from in the millions whereas British Speedway teams are lucky if they have a pool of hundreds to pick from. However, the maths show me that every league is now heavily weighted in favour of riders who want to regularly race speedway meetings in this country, and that’s a good thing, that is what the majority of fans want. It is a trend that will continue as the rule is a seed that needs to be grown and progressed correctly. There is a far clearer pathway for British riders and that has now evolved into a way to enhance the number of meetings British based riders can race (good it is a British league after all) which in theory will see them progress, get better and enable them to become “EL riders” or “PL riders” rather than the collection of riders over the years from the continent who were mediocre and selective in their appearances here. To my mind the DU/D down rule is in place to increase the number of riders who are committed to racing in this country (and is in the process of achieving that) and to fill the void left from top stars who have chosen to walk away. The trend re the number of Young British riders continues today with the majority of reserve spots in the EL and PL being packed with British kids, many of whom are progressing and will become regulars in this country, some would have anyway but this rule has increased the chances of more riders doing it. The FTR/Double Up system is one of the few long term plans that is currently in place, when it comes to fruition it will reduce the number of meetings featuring R/R and guests (in theory) as there will be a far larger number of home grown riders racing here. If it continues as it has and riders progress as a result of it and become EL second strings/PL second strings it further increase the chances of other young Brits stepping into the EL reserve spots and PL reserve spots. Fans ask for long term, this plan is long term, not ideals but still the entire premise of the rule is completely missed by some, go through the league, do the actual math, take away riders who DU/Double Down and work out where the 20+ riders who are going to fill that void are coming from, or where the money is coming from to fill the cash vacuum left behind due to the demand left to sign riders to fill a 1-7 let alone compete. I do need to ask again, what riders have been left out of a job, or retired as a result of the system? Without tangible evidence that just feels like a complete and utter false opposition, as the only riders I can see who have been left on the side line are guys like Bager, Palovaraa, Rasmus Jensen etc, guys being signed as replacements, who with the best will in the world are hardly going to define the future of British Speedway. Re your 10 years’ time point, in 10 years’ time British Speedway will have removed the majority of dead wood from the continent and replaced them with home grown local riders who will likely be representing their region in the North/South league if it was to split in two, that league would then be supplemented with selected talent from the continent who want to commit to Britain in the way the likes of Holder, Pijper, Lindgren or Summers have.. but hey it is 10 years you can right whatever narrative you like, there is so much water to pass under the bridge anything could happen, they might be going round the tracks on vespa hybrids for all I know.

I appreciate I won’t change how you feel re the rule and how you feel others portray it but what riders being frozen out as a result of it or forced to retire? Now more than ever is an ideal chance for a rider to gain a team spot in Britain, it’s the reason riders like Konopka, Edberg and Massen have found team spots in recent years. The rule is in place because of a paucity of riders wanting to race in this country and has been extended to help produce more young Brits and give them more chances to improve to increase the churn of riders, it is in place because promotions agree with your sentiment. If the rule was removed/hadn’t been introduced where do your proposed clubs were going to find the 20+ riders who are part of the system and where was the cost going to come from to cover the demand as a result of dwindling riders in this country?

I don’t feel stupid when I look at it, it isn’t anything to do with me, it is also easily enough to explain it I would rather the British Final had riders who double up between teams than the alternative options if the rule was removed, there isn’t the number of riders who want to commit to racing in this country to be enable it to be phased out. I would be curios to know the riders who have retired as a result of the rule?

The removal of doubling up would put clubs out of a business and thus even more riders out of work.

The Worrall’s are a great representation of the good and the bad of the FTR system and could both be used as a template to show how the system can be improved. Steve has progressed tenfold since the introduction of the system IMO. He was always talented albeit very raw but is now a polished accomplished rider who has benefited from the system and the chances he has had to race. He now needs the introduction of the next step to help him move on again. Richie on the other hand has somewhat stagnated since the system was introduced and suffered as a result of poor decisions re the selection process and the grade structure, he should have been part of the system but was excluded because he was good and it has hurt him a little. He was pushed out as a result of progression, the same thing could happen to others who have benefited from the FTR system.

I don’t have an issue with it. Cook is British rider racing in a British league. This same question has been asked about Ellis (a young Brit) racing in the NL (a league for young Brits). Re Cook, you could find 101 reasons to justify or go against the “ambition” of Craig Cook and most of the points would have their merits, for example, it hinders his progress, yes possibly, but how does he progress if he isn’t racing meetings and making money? Or he should be racing against a higher standard of rider, yes sure, but does it not benefit other Brits getting to race him at PL level? If anything is strength of rider trickling down through the leagues not a good thing as it allows all Brits the chance to test themselves and thus in theory get better in the same way Cook testing himself at a higher level allows him to get better?

It is just a speedway crowd there is far more in life worth worrying about it. Should just accept speedway attendances for what they are and have been for a while now, doubt they are going to change massively either way.

Yeah “meh” I don’t agree with your point or the self-imposed view of my opinion you fanny/nutter/tosser etc and so on (since insults seemingly add to a point) it is a one off race that could happen years ago and could still happen now, it isn’t enough to massively differentiate strength of heat leaders, reserves and second strings etc, it doesn't prove a point or disprove another it is just a race that can happen.

Meh, as an example I don’t think it proves much at all in all honesty it is a freak result, would need a larger show of results to justify the point either way.

You’re right you will need to explain it to me, because it reads like it was a shock that a lower league rider beat two top level heat leaders in a race 20 years ago, well it would still be a shock now, so can you expand on your point?

In one league (or BSPA Cup) Powell beating Hamill and Hancock would be like Tomas Jorgensen of Berwick beating Holder and Andersen if Poole visited Berwick, if that happened the crowd would react massively, that isn't something that has ever changed.

Speedway has a core audience that is willing to pay £14 - £18.00 to watch it, that audience hasn’t massively differed or changed with price changes. The majority of tracks have attempted free nights for televised meetings or opening nights which has seen a huge increase in attendances when it was free (naturally) but swelled by people who haven’t returned to pay full price the next week. Speedway as a sport has had an average attendance in the 500/2,000 range for 15 years that is the market the sport lives in, that is the sports role and place that it has known for a long time now.

As I said, a walking contradiction… That’s going to a sport you slate, posting on a forum you find weird and to people you think aren’t credible and weird, posting about leaving the forum in a blaze of glory only to post again about 3 hours later, it all comes across as a cry for attention, thus the rest of what you say just comes across much the same way.

You post about a sport you no longer like on a forum you find weird and claimed you wouldn’t post on again, I can’t say I find a word you have to say credible, you will likely say something completely different in 5 minutes.

Do I enjoy Speedway? Yes, still find it a great spectacle seeing 4 guys go around in a circle, still the same thing now that it always has been, that’s never ever changed and (hopefully) isn’t going to change. If people used to think it was more entertaining watching 4 guys go around in circles 30 years ago compared to now, that is on them rather than the sport . I don’t know what is meant to be achieved by debating that or constantly referencing how great it used to be, but ok run with the idea that it used to be great and certain people used to enjoy it more…ok and what? RE Wembley: It was evidently going to have slightly more hanging on it as it was a one off event to decide the World Champion rather than the Grand Prix series we have now. It was also always going to have higher attendances as it was a standalone event that had a greater reach in isolation, it is natural more people (not just from the UK) would attend. If the World Final was hosted at Cardiff it would attract fans from Britain, Denmark, Sweden, Poland and more than likely would see 70,000 in the stadium, if it did would that mean the sport was healthy and just like the 80s? Instead speedway has now increased its reach to the point it can host 8/9/10 GP events with average attendances of 10,000 + thus actually has more eyes on it now than it did back then (which is often ignored) and fans are also fortunate enough to see the best in the business regularly go at it on a variety of tracks. That being said re the mystical Wembley and its standalone atmosphere, the counter to that is that those in attendance at each Grand Prix treat it as standalone events which creates a great atmosphere and some excellent moments such as Harris winning from the back, Richardson’s wall of death, Crumps outstanding performance in 2008. In time all of these moments will grow and be remembered fondly and just as iconically as anything that took place at Wembley by those in attendance. I have always been more concerned by that and the track than wooden benches, albeit on that point it is generally accepted by most sporting fans that Cardiff and the aura of Cardiff is as good as it gets when it comes to fan experience compared to the concrete jungle that is Wembley in the middle of nowhere, hard to get to, crap pubs or no pubs, poor transport network and so on.

What’s the debate on this thread? A few people used to think speedway was great but now they think it is boring….em ok great what of it?

By that logic no one should reply to anyone If people say things on a public from they are consciously choosing to put their “opinion” out there for others to read, expecting others to simply agree, or not express their opinion in return is precious at best

Fail to realise is the wrong term re how I feel about some supposed “lovers of speedway” it is much deeper than that, I genuinely cannot fathom in my mind how some people think they love a thing that they go to (or in some instances don’t go to but only because they love it that much…weird) and then proceed to say “I love speedway…apart from when the 4 guys race around, the way they look, the rules, the stadia, the night out, the entertainment and the programmes”…apart from all of those things they love it, they love it so much that they spend hours on a forum telling others how crap it is THAT is how much they love speedway, pointing these types of characters out doesn’t make someone a super fan, whatever the hell that is, another of your fictional characters. Most of it isn’t in any remote way “constructive” hence, again, why it might irk people who actually do want to have constructive chats about a sport they actually like rather than an imaginary concept of “speedway” that some people have created PS if you state promoters “use tracks as a tax loss against their business” and then play dumb when asked if you have accused anyone of fiddling books, or how it can be seen that such comments are “constructive” it makes, you, well…..an idiot, since you are a fan of that word.