daveallan81

Cradley really wanted to be a football team I reckon. It's an interesting idea. The points on offer are quite similar to today without any reliance on the closeness of the scoreline. If you happen across the programme I'd be interested to hear what they were saying about it.

Are you pair professional bores or is it just some kind of hobby?

The 1978 Speedway Yearbook dedicated a page to this tour. I'm sure someone will have the heat results but here's the information from the yearbook in the meantime. http://www.dropbox.com/s/8rer4qmk80f0f3s/1977StalGorzowUKTour.pdf

Took a look at this using Stuart Straite-Aris's Coventry files on Speedway Researcher. They're only complete up to 1979 but helpfully show results in racecard format with helmet colours. The first instance of what is recognised as the current fixed helmet format is in 1976, an Inter-League 4TT. Prior to 76 it's a bit of a hotch-potch. Different formulas, some fixed helmets, some mixed, even the old WTC appears to operate different formulas throughout the one tournament, dependant on staging nation. The 73 Final at Wembley uses todays recognised fixed helmet formula but it's 1976 before everyone is seemingly singing off the same sheet, and the 'old' formulas are retired. The first mixed helmet formula appears in 1977, but I'm 99.9% certain that this was the formula adopted for the new National League Fours tournament in 1976. Without the programme or additional insight there's no way to discern whether fixed or mixed is in operation using just Speedway Star/Mail style results unfortunately.

I can't help with the above but five days later at Glasgow on 5th September, Eric Broadbelt replaced John Proctor at No. 5 with Miles Evans at No. 4. Long Eaton lined up Geoff Pusey, Gerald Short, Dave Morton (guest for Mark Fiora away on international duty), Evans, Broadbelt, Kenny Young (who filled the blank space at 6) and Glenn Doyle. Looking at the racecard, Broadbelt and Evans taccy subbed each other in Heats 12 & 13, if you read that from Speedway Star it would look like Broadbelt was at 4 and Evans at 5. I'm guessing you've got that very problem.

So it should be - I only did the list this afternoon I hadn't seen the Edinburgh site before, some good stuff on there, hope it continues to build.

I've seen a couple of posts regarding the London Cup now so I've put together a PDF with all the results I have up to 2007. These figures were compiled by someone else but I'd imagine they're 99% on the money. Some years there appears to be a group system, other years it's a final, and a couple of years Belle Vue won it (their second success saw the 1st leg raced over 20 heats, the 2nd over 15!). You can download the file here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8gsdu5q3l70mo0/London%20Cup.pdf You should also take a look here: http://edinburghspeedway.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/london-cup.html

Thanks for that sir. Were the points combined to decide the winner or was it literally two seperate matches?

According to the 1978 Yearbook, two challenge matches were staged on the same day at Dudley Wood. Cradley won both, 34-19 and 42-12. Cradley used the same 6 riders in both, Bristol seem to be down to 5 for the second match with guest Mike Farrell the missing man. Can anyone throw more light on this meeting? Why the two matches?

Here's a racecard and match report from the meeting. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dotk2zc3fcsg7k5/19831026CrayvNewc.pdf

Just to add a wee bit to that file - he rode for Edinburgh in the Northern Junior League in 1986, and was still racing in the UK in 1988, with Glasgow in the National League Junior League or whatever it was called. Personable big chap, like lightning from the tapes.

Aye I'll give you that...I think that's one of Steve Lawson's old barnets...

He was Finnish - don't think they do ginger hair. He's in this team pic http://www.foes.info/teams01.html#1996

I've updated the 1983 requirements in the first post if anyone can assist. The 1984 file is complete and will be updated if any of the queries above are resolved. It can be downloaded from here: http://www.dropbox.com/s/hlwgz6dsx6oqg8l/Glasgow%201984.pdf

Vesa Ylinen.

Here, I'm not finished with you yet, don't go! I'm into 1983, do you remember your debut at Craighead Park? Inter-City cup tie with Edinburgh, Sunday 15th May 1983. Last race, heat 14 - I've got you down as excluded, but Speedway Star reports retired. Others in the race were Andy Reid, Brett Saunders and Glyn Taylor, who fell and was excluded in an unrelated incident. Any recollections? I'm sure it was for something that happened mid-race, ref put your exclusion light on, and you pulled out as the race continued. Do they still do that? Haven't seen it in years. Unemployed into speedway. If you fail to reach a 5 point average after 12 matches your giro gets clipped for not trying? It's worth a thought. They'll eat the poor before they cull them though...

http://www.speedwayatoz.co.uk/percybrine.html

I had another look at this and with nothing better to fill my time I played out the full SGP season using the Euros formula. Semi-final and final results are based on head-to-heads during the 20 heats, one 'point' awarded to each head-to-head winner. If two riders are tied, the head-to-head result is the tie-breaker. If 3 or more are tied then it's decided on points scored. Countback a la GP with race wins etc is not used. Woffinden 130 Hancock 120 Hampel 119 Iversen 119 Pedersen 114 Ward 101 Sayfutdinov 98 Zagar 98 Kasprzak 81 Lindgren 79 Gollob 77 Holder 74 Jonsson 66 Vaculik 62 Lindback 51 Full PDF file here http://www.dropbox.c...ypothetical.pdf Real GP: Woffinden won. 20 heats only GP: Woffinden won. Hypothetical Euro-style GP: Woffinden won. There's a pattern forming there I just can't quite put my finger on...

Projecting a points total if the GP were using the Euro formula borders on the impossible. For example, Ward and Jonsson finished 1/2 in New Zealand but neither made the final, whereas Hampel, who wouldn't have qualified for the semi having finished 7th, won his semi and the final itself. Strip out all points for the semi's and final and here's what you get. Actual score shown next, then percentage of points scored in semis & finals: TAI WOFFINDEN 124 (151) (17.9%) GREG HANCOCK 111 (129) (14.0%) JAROSLAW HAMPEL 111 (142) (21.8%) NIELS-KRISTIAN IVERSEN 111 (132) (15.9%) NICKI PEDERSEN 109 (121) (9.9%) MATEJ ZAGAR 93 (110) (15.5%) DARCY WARD 91 (106) (14.2%) EMIL SAYFUTDINOV 89 (114) (21.9%) KRZYSZTOF KASPRZAK 81 (89) (9.0%) FREDRICK LINDGREN 79 (83) (4.8%) TOMASZ GOLLOB 74 (89) (16.9%) CHRIS HOLDER 68 (82) (17.1%) ANDREAS JONSSON 64 (64) (0.0%) MARTIN VACULIK 61 (62) (1.6%) ANTONIO LINDBACK 51 (51) (0.0%)

A shameless bump back up the order for this one. After a hiatus I'm back on the trail of SJL results and information as laid out in the original post. I've received some terrific help so far but still lots of gaps to be plugged. If you can assist, contact me at the address above.

My memories of Kevin Armitage are mainly from his very brief spell as a Tiger in 1985 which didn't go too well. He was indeed of the 'any colour of leathers as long as they're black' brigade. I think he retired at the end of 85, I can't find any mention of him in my 86 files. Glasgow used 22 riders in official competition in 1983 with 18 of them appearing in less than half the total matches. McMillan, Lawson, Reid and Caffrey were the 'perfect 4'

BLRC http://www.dropbox.com/s/tz8g3f98xqs3wqb/19831015BLRC.pdf Halifax v Poole http://www.dropbox.com/s/qp76q9llvt268di/19830618HALVPOOLE.pdf Poole v Halifax http://www.dropbox.com/s/8hro8gt91qhis6d/19830518POOLEVHAL.pdf

I've only got Stars complete for 83 & 84, plus a smattering of others, so if this query had been about any other season I'd probably have been no help! I use my own Excel templates to compile the PDF files - one produces the racecard and one produces the Speedway Star-style report, which some people prefer.

Belle Vue v Poole http://www.dropbox.com/s/4ohrdt70icghuub/19830619BVvPOOLE.pdf Pride Of The East http://www.dropbox.com/s/nmbc2nk0diqafm2/19831029KLYNNPOTE.pdf

16th August 1984.