daveallan81

Yes I had considered the White Cities angle. It's certainly a possibility and as you say the prospect of a Glasgow near-whitewash away victory seems remote. I must then assume that the associated league table is compiled directly from the results grid and not, for example, from a publication. Incidentally the Leicester Super 25-11 win over Glasgow also seems to be an error, all indications are that it finished 24-11. Thanks for your input, always appreciated.

While working on a Glasgow results history I discovered a result for this match, a 28-8 win for Glasgow. The information came from a results grid on Speedway Researcher. Unfortunately I have been unable to ascertain who produced the grid, or the associated league table which includes the result. Grid http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/1930/nlresultsgrid.pdf Table http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/1930/nltable.pdf I have spoken to Jim Henry and Bob Ozanne who have both undertaken some serious research for this season and neither has any record of the meeting taking place. Jim's file states that it was scheduled for 6th September but never staged. I must also add that a 1930 results list compiled by Barry Stephenson carries no mention of the meeting but does include individual meetings at Gosforth on both Friday 5th and Monday 8th of September. Gosforth appear to have withdrawn from the league at the end of July. Does anyone have any information at all regarding this meeting?

A slightly different timeline in the Swindon programmes: 25/5 has the fixture in place for Friday 14th, 8/6 has the fixture now moved to Wednesday 12th, and 15/6 sees it gone completely. The 1/6 programme (v Southampton) may reveal the reason for the initial switch but I agree it looks like an availability issue.

It's like being on Speedway Updates only it's 1963! Great work as always, many thanks. Regarding the tied individual meetings, do you concur that Rick France beat Colin Pratt in a run-off for the PLRCQR at Wolverhampton 23/08? Edit to add: Can you confirm these race points for the Northern League, I haven't been able to locate a final table. Edinburgh 260 - 208 Middlesbrough 223 - 242 Newcastle 203 - 261 Sheffield 245 - 220

A few more than I'd hoped for unfortunately. 12/04 Southampton v Barry Briggs' Team (Challenge) 43-47 I have a note saying it was Bjorn Knuttson's team squaring up to Briggo's bunch, not Southampton. I also have a result of a 47-43 win for the 'home' team. Southampton programme says 43-47 to Briggs. Confirm the home team name and the result. 14/06 Norwich v Swindon (National League) Postponed Reason for cancellation. 23/06 Eastbourne Cavalcade of Sport - Best pairs won by Trigg (Roy?) and Dugard (Bobby?) Confirm meeting title and winners' forenames. 17/08 Coventry v Southampton (National League) 43-33 I have a note that says this score was amended from 43-35. Confirm that this was the case. 20/08 St. Austell Provincial Riders Championship QR Winner: Cliff Cox Confirm Cox as winner. 31/08 Norwich Festival of Speed Best Pairs event I have three pairs all finishing on 10 points - Nygren & Hedge, Teodorowicz & Trott and Betts & Gooch. Was a winner declared? 04/09 Norwich v Swindon (National League) Postponed rain - not restaged The Norwich file on Speedway Researcher reads "This League fixture was left outstanding when season ended – some have credited Norwich with a walk-over victory & two points for it". The Swindon file states "This League fixture was left outstanding when season ended". SGB website table gives Norwich the league points, but I'd like to confirm that this was indeed the case. 21/09 Belle Vue v Parker's Team (Challenge) 29-49 I've got one note that says it was Jack's team, and another that says it was Mike's. Which one is correct? 24/09 Southampton v Provincial League Select (Challenge) Postponed - rain Confirm date and cancellation. 07/10 Exeter v Tommy Sweetman's Select (Challenge) 40-38 Scheduled to be Wolverhampton but 3 Wolves riders wouldn't ride. What was the reason for this? Weymouth home fixtures (general) I have 4 matches tagged as Southern Area League fixtures - 14/06 Eastbourne, 21/06 New Cross 'B', 26/07 Rye House and 23/08 Hackney. I can't find any other S.A.L. matches staged anywhere. Are these matches just challenges? I also need to confirm this match: 16/08 v Southern Stars and the result 42-36. Individual Events 15/06 Cradley Heath World Championship QR Ivor Brown/Maury Mattingley 21/08 Hackney Provincial Riders Championship QR Ray Cresp/Norman Hunter 24/08 Cradley Heath Provincial Riders Championship QR Ray Cresp/Eric Boocock Were any of these ties settled by run-offs or any other means?

Tyretrax, you've clearly and justifiably got a bee in yer bunnet about this 'true' supporter malarkey. No 'true' supporter would ever call out another and question their allegiance or commitment to the cause. Such is the nature of internet toilets like FB. Treat them like a Blantyre burger and avoid. Only a year ago it was Fridays that were being hailed as the hot ticket. Had that move been ratified it would have been championed in much the same way this new switch has been. The promoters are clever businessmen, or so I read. In that case it must be assumed that Friday was their number one choice for a new racenight. The one night out of seven that would generate the highest returns. What other reason could there be? If Friday was the unequivocal first choice, then, at that time, Saturday must have been, at best, second choice. If it was a genuine toss-up between Friday and Saturday, then why go for the one they must have known stood no realistic chance of being granted? It's unlikely Saturday was numero uno because no sane promotion would campaign to move to a Friday race night they knew ran second best, let alone second best to one which would be granted with little or no fuss. What has changed 12 months down the line? Is this a veiled admission that Friday nights weren't that good an idea? Is it an admission that they're being forced to utilise their second best nightime choice? That Saturday crowds won't be as good as Friday crowds but better than Sunday crowds? Perhaps Saturday wasn't an option for 2016 but I fail to think of a reason why not. Or perhaps all the supposition is pointless and what you are witnessing is a promotion who are disappointed with attendances on a Sunday afternoon and know that the only way to find out if they're missing a trick is by giving it a shot. It'll either work or it won't. Many would seem to have very sure opinions about how they think it will pan out, but the stark reality is that it's a blank canvas. Glasgow have traded well-mapped, if somewhat choppy, seas for almost completely uncharted waters. Only a fool or a madman would sail off into the unknown without a least a sense of trepidation. Here be monsters. My condolences to all those who will miss out through the switch. I never had my racing put out of reach by a racenight change but I don't imagine it's a pleasurable experience. Having it shifted 120 miles down the road now seems like a minor inconvenience in comparison. Let's hope you're not missed...

Drew McQueen

I wasn't aware of the double points scenario, glad I checked that. Thanks again.

Top class information as always, many thanks. Would you concur with this 'final' Metropolitan League table? 1. Ipswich (6 - 5 - 0 - 1 - 231 - 200 - 10pts) 2. Eastbourne (3 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 110 - 101 - 6pts) 3. Rayleigh (3 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 110 - 106 - 2pts) 4. Newpool (3 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 99 - 111 - 2pts) 5. Weymouth (5 - 1 - 0 - 4 - 163 - 195 - 2pts) Wd. Exeter 'B' (1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 30 - 42 - 0pts) The table on the SGB site seems to carry an extra match - Eastbourne defeating Newpool - but the race points totals tally with those above.

Finalising a results list for 1964 so, once again, I'm in need of some help. First and foremost, just how do you spell Newpool? Newpoole? I'm seeing evidence of both all over the place. And 20th August at Middlesbrough, was it Australia or Australasia in opposition? These are longshots and some probably didn't take place but any confirmation of dates, scores, whatever, appreciated: 4th July Rayleigh v Poole (Challenge) 4th August Ipswich v Newpool(e) (Challenge) 8th August Rayleigh v Newpool(e) (Challenge) 15th August Rayleigh Metropolitan Riders Championship 1st September Weymouth (v) 1964 All Stars - no idea of meeting format Finally a couple of off-season romps: 29th November Weymouth - info says training school match races, winner John Hector 27th December Weymouth Training School - no idea of meeting format

The Newport and Newcastle team files on Speedway Researcher return a result of 54-48 from 17 heats. The Newcastle programme of 12/10 reports the score as 52-44 for the Wasps. 17 heats seems a bit strange but if you were to remove the final heat, a 3-3, the result still wouldn't tally. Anyone tidy this one up for me? Edit: I've found the 17-heat formula in action at Poole so looks likely that the Newcastle programme is wrong.

1. Sheffield (10 - 8 - 0 - 2 - 465 - 314 - 16+5 = 21) 2. Edinburgh (10 - 5 - 1 - 4 - 440 - 336 - 11+4 = 15) 3. Newcastle (10 - 5 - 1 - 4 - 370 - 404 - 11+2 = 13) 4. Glasgow (10 - 5 - 0 - 5 - 368 - 408 - 10+2 = 12) 5. Middlesbrough (10 - 4 - 0 - 6 - 375 - 401 - 8+2 = 10) 6. Sunderland (10 - 2 - 0 - 8 - 310 - 465 - 4+0 = 4) (Played - won - drawn - lost - for - against - points + bonus points = total points)

Thanks. The only table I managed to find didn't carry the points totals.

Can anyone confirm these for & against race points totals for this competition? Edinburgh: 440 - 336 Glasgow: 368 - 408 Middlesbrough: 375 - 401 Newcastle: 370 - 404 Sheffield: 465 - 314 Sunderland: 310 - 465

Late eighties - interesting. Must investigate further. The theory currently being touted in the Allan household would make the Hancock threads read like a nursery rhyme. Sadly due to the highly sensitive nature of the subject matter I couldn't possibly put it in print anywhere.

Cheers.

In the 1979 Intercontinental Final, Ivan Mauger leads a 3-man run-off for 3rd place from Finn Thomsen and Dave Jessup. On the last bend, Mauger slows and moves out and the others pass him. Afterwards Ivan explains it was to do with what start number he would get in the World Final. How did this system work and how long was it in place? From Wikipedia (which awards Mauger 4th at White City for some reason) it doesn't seem to be consistent from year to year, certainly around that time. In 1978 Olsen won the ICF and wore #15 in the final, the same number Mauger was awarded for finishing 5th.

You weren't inspired to watch that following recent 'events' in Melbourne, were you?

Just to tidy up the 1984 Belle Vue v Swindon match, the match was rained off on 22nd September. This was the first senior match to be cancelled at Hyde Road in 1984. With both being Saturday tracks, available dates were an issue. 29/9 Aces were at Coventry and Robins at home to Oxford. 6/10 Aces at home to Bees while Swindon were at home to Ipswich. 13/10 Swindon were at home to Wimbledon while Aces ran 13/10 v Poole then a double header the next day with Cradley (League Cup Final) & Wolves (KOC semifinal). 20th was the BLRC. 27th Swindon were at Cradley while Belle Vue hosted Ipswich, who tied up the league title on the 23rd, in the KOC final. They tried on successive nights to run the Swindon match on 3rd & 4th November. From the Speedway Star report: "Promoter Stuart Bamforth and his staff worked until the very last moment in their efforts to clear the track and then riders and officials jumped into their cars to drive round and round in a brave bid to tyre-pack the heavy shale. But when Belle Vue captain Chris Morton brought out a bike and attempted to race on it, it proved difficult to negotiate with the track spongy and decidedly greasy underneath. The riders then decided to call it a day in a trackside discussion with the promoter. No new starting date has been settled but it seems unlikely, with some Swindon riders going home in the next few days and with other commitments by Belle Vue riders, that this meeting will ever be re-held." I think that qualifies as a bona fide attempt to get the meeting staged.

Thanks for taking a look.

Cheers for that. Do you have the following meetings' programme - 2nd October D/H - in case it carries mention of the winner?

I looked at that 15/08 programme and perhaps jumped to the wrong conclusion that it was a printers error. Only 2 races are listed, in the middle of which is the Reserves Scurry (lack of scurrying reserves is killing this sport). The heats all look like scratch races. I'm trying to hunt down a marked programme. A scan of the blank one can be had here https://app.box.com/s/uhdzga2nuc2wws55j5sksixrdeg449eh Actually it's worth a look just to read Randall Butt's column on the facing page

As you are probably able to deduce from my recent gamut of requests for information, work on season results lists from 1965 to 1984 is getting towards the sharp end. The lists are born of Barry Stephenson's original Excel files. Under close scrutiny several discrepancies were discovered so a decision was taken to rebuild them from scratch. The finished lists will be published on Speedway Researcher and hopefully the SGB website. Of course Barry's lists go on beyond 1984. However I'm all out of Speedway Stars at that point, and yearbooks and online research alone are not enough to avoid a long list of queries forming. Once the first set has been published I'll take a look at 85 onwards and perhaps then I can appeal for contributors to help complete the project. For now, over 20,000 lines of information later, I'm left with the following queries to resolve. A couple of these are already posted in other threads but I'm sure you'll excuse me. 10/06 & 15/06/1968 Belfast Dunmore v All Stars What was the outcome of these matches? I suspect the latter date was a restaging. 3/08/1969 Belle Vue Northern Riders Championship QR Abandoned heat 9 - rain Were the points scored in this wash out included in riders' overall qualifying points totals? In other words, did the result stand? 28/05/1970 Teesside v Canterbury (BL2) Postponed I have a note stating Canterbury failed to arrive for this match. Teesside instead staged a challenge against a Northern Select. Confirm that Crusaders didn't show up. 28/08/1970 Workington v Stars of the League (CH) 42-36 Confirm date and result. 07/06/1971 Scunthorpe v Workington (CH) 40-38 Confirm date and result. 10/06/1971 Ipswich v Peterborough (KOC) Rained off Confirm rained off and restaged 12/06. 23/09/1971 Ipswich v Canterbury (BL2) Rained off Confirm rained off and restaged 24/09. 25/09/1971 Kings Lynn Eastern Grass Track Speedway Championship (Individual) Meeting date & title confirmed (see below). Just the winner required now. 15/10/1972 Rye House Gerald Hussey Memorial Trophy Confirm date and result. Possibly not staged. 27/09/1974 Peterborough v Berwick (BL2) Rained off Confirm Berwick were second half of a double header with Barrow. 25/10/1979 Wimbledon v Hackney (London Cup L2) Possibly one heat run before rain off. If so, result of that heat required. Confirmation of date also required. 14/07/1980 Birmingham Philishave Fours (4TT) Rained off Names of competing teams required.

I've got two other junior-related queries from 1971 and 1982: 06/11/1971 King's Lynn Stars of Tomorrow Winner Mike Lanham Wikipedia states Mike "won the BSSC Junior Trophy in his first season". I don't have any note for a meeting of that title but I'm guessing that they were one and the same event. Confirmation of that notion is required. 29/10/1982 Swindon v Central Junior League Select 46-32 Confirmation of date and result required.

The Speedway Star reports that Tom Owen won the 2nd half final that night. I would have expected that to have been scrubbed if they were running a double header although I suppose it may just have been a single top scorers race.